Do actively drinking alcoholics (drunkards) go to Heaven?

[Starise]

2 minutes ago, Sower said:

 Do actively drinking alcoholics sinning sinners go to Heaven?

     Would the chiefest of sinners have a chance...?

That seems like it should be a no, but it's a yes if they are saved IMO.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Starise

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, Dave-regenerated said:

I was a problem drinker until very recently.  I know I am saved and I was saved many years ago but continued to drink because I couldn't seem to stop.  So, my take on it is based on what Paul said "such were some of you".  That means, the saved people in the church he was writing to had given up drinking.  But even if it means some continue to drink, I don't believe you can lose your salvation once you have got it.  But I think eventually a person will stop drinking because God is working their sanctification and I know I used to feel miserable when I drank because I knew it was sin, and I don't WANT to sin.  I hated it with all my  guts.  

God isn't a tyrant.  He knows everything!  He wouldn't save a person who He knows will continue to drink in the future.  This goes for all sins, not just drink.  And I believe that if we desire to change because we really do not want to sin anymore, we can do it with God's help in sanctification.

I, too, had a decades-long alcohol addiction and wrote about how the Lord miraculously cured my addiction in my testimony. How it is tied into:

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

[Desopixi Seilynam]

I don't think we can die because of our sins and expect to enter the city of heaven.
We must be born again, the thief on the cross had at least one day of not stealing,
we can safely assume he was likely in jail at least one night before execution,
similar to how Jesus was.

If he had died while thieving, then he would not have been next to Christ, he would not have been there and would have died because of his sin.

 

[TheBlade]

18 hours ago, Not of the World said:

It seems not.  Do they go to Hell?

 

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

English Standard Version

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Lets brake it down a little more. No sin can enter heaven. So when are you  holy sinless? Do you Know when your going to die? Going to be all "confessed up" or repented are we? So does anyone with unrepented sin go to heaven? Or is stuck in some sin worse? Does the blood of JESUS (AMEN THANK YOU JESUS) only work if we confessed it first or never sinning? This is not some lamb we have to keep offering over and over as Paul told them there is no more sacrifice for that sin. To do that puts Him to open shame. He only died once. 

So what your quoting is n0t for believers. Well its in the text "do you not know that the UNRIGHTEOUS" We  are the righteous. We are not righteous if we never sin or always sin. We are righteous because of what Christ did because we believe in Him. Abraham was not righteous because he stopped sinning. Nope it was because he believed God. He was still in this world like you and me in this flesh. 

Now as a believer can I just think "Hey I can go out and start drinking and smoking lust what ever since I am forgiven?"  Holy Jesus.. not a path I want to take.  Now there are those that believe yet fall into sin and that is not the same. So how do you want to look at this as believes? Through the eyes of man or the Father? He sees you right now holy righteous. Ask Him to show you where thats written. 

[Sower]

11 hours ago, Starise said:

11 hours ago, Sower said:

 Do actively drinking alcoholics sinning sinners go to Heaven?

     Would the chiefest of sinners have a chance...?

That seems like it should be a no, but it's a yes if they are saved IMO.

Haven't yet met one sinless person, yet I know many that are saved.
I sin every day, sometimes every hour. A sinning sinner. And I'm saved.
I understand, I believe, what Paul meant when he said he was the chiefest of sinners.
No, I'm not Paul. But I can relate to his statement. When I miss God's mark, I sin.
When I get good at hitting those marks, targets, guess what. I begin to see more targets, some seem impossible to hit. The more sensitive I become in diving deep into what I believe God would have me be, I realize I haven't even begun to understand God's perfection, purity, holiness, etc etc etc.

The more I know of(sin)the more of them I realize that I don't know(sins)yet...
I try to reprogram this corrupted mind with light, by agreeing all day long any thought that is not pleasing to God is sin and I then agree, or call it confessing. I'm telling my mind the truth! Re-programing it. Removing darkness. Re-booting it.
The point is taking every thought captive works, but is tiring, and very revealing.

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked:
                      who can know it?"
 

[Dennis1209]

21 hours ago, Not of the World said:

That's fascinating!  I would love to hear more!

A copy of my notes:

KINGDOM OF HEAVEN

Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 

Where God is physically, and rules is the kingdom of heaven. John the Baptist is announcing the arrival of the long-awaited Messiah. Now is the time to set up the “kingdom of heaven.” Here John briefly alludes to what must be done to enter the kingdom, “repent,” repent of what?

The word repent: A conditional clause for entering the kingdom.

• As a prerequisite for experiencing the Reign of God in the preaching of John the Baptist and Jesus Mt 3:2; 4:17; Mk 1:15. ¹

¹ Arndt, William et al. A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature 2000: 640. Print.

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Jesus’s parables and words in Matthew chapter 18-25 precisely tell us what the kingdom is and the only way to qualify and enter the kingdom of heaven. An observation I noticed that is interesting: After John the Baptist’s announcement that the Kingdom of Heaven has arrived, Jesus is the only one who speaks about the kingdom of heaven, and it is not in the synoptic Gospels, only recorded in Matthew.

The Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are synonymous, but there are differences.

• Christ’s kingdom is the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven with Christ as the visible head.

• The kingdom of God is the timeless spiritual rule of God over all beings, wherever they may be, in paradise, in hell, in earth, or anywhere in any of the three heavens

• Then you have other kingdoms, Satan’s kingdom, Antichrist kingdom, Gentile kingdoms, the Jewish kingdom (Israel).¹

¹ _{Michael Pearl, Eight Kingdoms}

Matthew 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

That certain King is Jesus Christ, our Lord, and Savior. His servants are those that serve Him and him alone. They belong to the King, and the King claims them as His own.

On Palm Sunday, Jesus triumphantly rode into Jerusalem on a donkey to be accepted as the Jew’s Messiah and establish the kingdom of Heaven (Christ’s kingdom is the kingdom of God). We know the story; the Jews rejected their Messiah and crucified the Lord of glory. At that time, the kingdom of heaven was postponed (canceled-delayed). Until the Jew’s realize, they murdered the Lord of glory and cry out for His return.

My understanding is, that day will be the remnant of the Jews that escaped the Antichrist's persecution protected during the second half of the Tribulation (the time of Jacob’s trouble). This remnant will finally realize their grievous error and cry out for the Lord’s return to save them. The Lord will return and close the seven-year Tribulation (70^th week) for the reasons stated below. Then Christ’s kingdom of heaven (millennium) will be established with Jesus reigning and ruling with a rod of iron.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 

 

[Not of the World]

18 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

A copy of my notes:

KINGDOM OF HEAVEN

Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 

Where God is physically, and rules is the kingdom of heaven. John the Baptist is announcing the arrival of the long-awaited Messiah. Now is the time to set up the “kingdom of heaven.” Here John briefly alludes to what must be done to enter the kingdom, “repent,” repent of what?

The word repent: A conditional clause for entering the kingdom.

• As a prerequisite for experiencing the Reign of God in the preaching of John the Baptist and Jesus Mt 3:2; 4:17; Mk 1:15. ¹

¹ Arndt, William et al. A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature 2000: 640. Print.

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Jesus’s parables and words in Matthew chapter 18-25 precisely tell us what the kingdom is and the only way to qualify and enter the kingdom of heaven. An observation I noticed that is interesting: After John the Baptist’s announcement that the Kingdom of Heaven has arrived, Jesus is the only one who speaks about the kingdom of heaven, and it is not in the synoptic Gospels, only recorded in Matthew.

The Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are synonymous, but there are differences.

• Christ’s kingdom is the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven with Christ as the visible head.

• The kingdom of God is the timeless spiritual rule of God over all beings, wherever they may be, in paradise, in hell, in earth, or anywhere in any of the three heavens

• Then you have other kingdoms, Satan’s kingdom, Antichrist kingdom, Gentile kingdoms, the Jewish kingdom (Israel).¹

¹ _{Michael Pearl, Eight Kingdoms}

Matthew 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

That certain King is Jesus Christ, our Lord, and Savior. His servants are those that serve Him and him alone. They belong to the King, and the King claims them as His own.

On Palm Sunday, Jesus triumphantly rode into Jerusalem on a donkey to be accepted as the Jew’s Messiah and establish the kingdom of Heaven (Christ’s kingdom is the kingdom of God). We know the story; the Jews rejected their Messiah and crucified the Lord of glory. At that time, the kingdom of heaven was postponed (canceled-delayed). Until the Jew’s realize, they murdered the Lord of glory and cry out for His return.

My understanding is, that day will be the remnant of the Jews that escaped the Antichrist's persecution protected during the second half of the Tribulation (the time of Jacob’s trouble). This remnant will finally realize their grievous error and cry out for the Lord’s return to save them. The Lord will return and close the seven-year Tribulation (70^th week) for the reasons stated below. Then Christ’s kingdom of heaven (millennium) will be established with Jesus reigning and ruling with a rod of iron.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 

 

 

Fascinating!  Thank you!

[Starise]

1 Corinthians 3:15 ESV

If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

I will often think of this verse as applying to the Christian who makes it by the very skin of their teeth. They only have the blood of Christ to save them. The " Worldy Christian" who has no work which wasn't burned up. Probably because of the pursuits of the things of the world and lacking in the works that will not be burned up.

The reason I think of it is because I am asking myself on a regular basis if I am that person and if so, what can I do to change the outcomes?

I'm not sure we consciously think much about what we are doing, and whether it is going into the scrap pile or the awards pile. As we become more like Christ and move away from the flesh, I believe we automatically gain the traits we need to do the things that will count for something. This is often a battle between us and Him. More of Him, less of us.

Do I want to do what I want to do because I looked for God's direction, or am I more self focused on what I want with no regard for what God wants?

[Dennis1209]

14 minutes ago, Starise said:

1 Corinthians 3:15 ESV

If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

I will often think of this verse as applying to the Christian who makes it by the very skin of their teeth. They only have the blood of Christ to save them. The " Worldy Christian" who has no work which wasn't burned up. Probably because of the pursuits of the things of the world and lacking in the works that will not be burned up.

The reason I think of it is because I am asking myself on a regular basis if I am that person and if so, what can I do to change the outcomes?

I'm not sure we consciously think much about what we are doing, and whether it is going into the scrap pile or the awards pile. As we become more like Christ and move away from the flesh, I believe we automatically gain the traits we need to do the things that will count for something. This is often a battle between us and Him. More of Him, less of us.

Do I want to do what I want to do because I looked for God's direction, or am I more self focused on what I want with no regard for what God wants?

I have the same thoughts. One of many analogies I can use in our works being burned up:

During the church offering collection, I publicly make known I am putting $500.00 into the offering plate. I didn’t do it for my offering or tithe for the glory and honor of the Lord and the church’s work. I did it for my recognition and glory. I received my just recompense then and there. That work will be wood, hay, and stubble when the time comes.

Because I am covered with the blood of the Lamb, I am saved, but my work (or fruits) will not be stored in heaven or follow me.

[Not of the World]

57 minutes ago, Starise said:

1 Corinthians 3:15 ESV

If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

I will often think of this verse as applying to the Christian who makes it by the very skin of their teeth. They only have the blood of Christ to save them. The " Worldy Christian" who has no work which wasn't burned up. Probably because of the pursuits of the things of the world and lacking in the works that will not be burned up.

The reason I think of it is because I am asking myself on a regular basis if I am that person and if so, what can I do to change the outcomes?

I'm not sure we consciously think much about what we are doing, and whether it is going into the scrap pile or the awards pile. As we become more like Christ and move away from the flesh, I believe we automatically gain the traits we need to do the things that will count for something. This is often a battle between us and Him. More of Him, less of us.

Do I want to do what I want to do because I looked for God's direction, or am I more self focused on what I want with no regard for what God wants?

 

Great post!