Did God restore Israel in 1948?

[DeighAnn]

20 minutes ago, dad2 said:

End time prophesy is about Jerusalem and Israel, and how they will be saved in the end etc. Getting hung up on the word Jew is a strawman. Why do you think Jewish people want to return to Israel? Not just one tribe.

The gospel goes out to the WHOLE WORLD

The WHOLE world will be deceived

The WHOLE world will be pressured into taking the mark of the beast

SURE, the Adversary will STAND in Jerusalem but the end time is about everyone everywhere.  


The LAND allotted FOR THE TRIBE OF JUDAH contains 'Jerusalem'.   So what is the point?


NOT recognizing how THE BIBLE uses the term JEW in favor of how THE WORLD uses the term JEW, is not a strawman,

it is necessary TO RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORDS OF GOD because when you don't, you end up believing lies instead of Gods Truth.  




 

[DeighAnn]

28 minutes ago, dad2 said:

Bible prophesy however does no such thing usually.

It ABSOLUTELY DOES.  

[Selah7]

44 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Hello sister Selah, going to cover what you already know but hope it will bring perspective on the 'ISRAEL' thing

the pre trib rapt church has defined as something else so it can separate itself from tribulation, as I see it anyhow. 

Gods choose a specific bloodline through which He would show Himself, show His Righteousness, and His plan, to let us know what is really going on in this world today, just as it did for them in their day.

Every soul has to opportunity to receive the GIFT of eternal life - to go on living with God in the next world age, His Kingdom come, and to choose how much to INVEST in that future. The requirements are to 'read the book' to come to faith, go to work, the 'profits' coming not just now but also being put away in a 'savings account in Heaven for the future age'. 

It was through that bloodline the Old Testament would be given, be written, so everyone who followed after would be able to know exactly 'what was what' 

A sorta kinda overview

He took that bloodline and made them 'slaves' for 400 years or so, so that they had no idea how to do anything.  Then He removed them (parted the sea) to eventually bring forth a perfect government, right and just, accomplished through HIS LAWS.  He finally allowed them into the promised land and showed THE WORLD what 'doing it His way', looked like.  And the world did see the 'outward' blessings. 


Problem though, the 'physical' part was NOT working out so well, the 'inner man' not being 'transformed' by following the laws as was meant.

Anyways, under Solomon, the people started to sin...

So God divided them into two groups,

The first group, The House of Israel, northern, was 10 of the tribes plus Ephriam and Manasseh, who had received 'the BIRTHRIGHT'. They would continue to disobey and became the first go into captivity but also the first to be released and upon release, sent out to 'populate' the world, sifted amongst the peoples (gentiles/heathen/nations) going on to produce a nation of many nations, and a great nation, and to inhabit the isles and coasts, in which He could still bring blessings upon the world through them (through THE WORD). They would be called the 'scattered sheep', forgetting who they once were'.  

We can't ignore anything given to Abraham Isaac and Joseph like it 'ceased' to exist. It hasn't.  

SO hundreds of years BEFORE JESUS even was born, being released and scattered, they couldn't even go to Jerusalem if they had wanted and/or any the southern part because by that time, the House of Judah had also gone into captivity.

SO, NO MORE NATION OF ISRAEL. 

Just because they were no longer a 'nation' doesn't mean the promises, covenants etc. stopped, yet 'the gentile pre trib rap church' neither teaches nor acknowledges them as 'any part' of THEIR history nor any bearing on what is taking place today and will in the future.  WE DO ERR in not knowing the Scritpures.  


Meanwhile, the House of Judah is released to go back to Jerusalem to build the Temple and to bring forth the Messiah.  WHICH THEY DO.  

A JEW, according to the BIBLE, is one who is of the tribe of Judah, the House of Judah (Judah, Benjamin and some Levi), or an inhabitant of Judea and/or Jerusalem. Since we are talking BIBLE what the 'world' says or does doesn't matter here.

CHRISTIANS, who do not go to the schoolmaster, are kinda like Esau in that they don't care about their true heritage.  They know Paul taught all those 'coming to Christ' through the Law and the Prophets with the teaching of Christ crucified, but somehow THESE TRUTHS have been made of no effect.

WHO IS THE CHURCH if NOT the scattered sheep of the House of Israel, with 'others' grafted in AMONGST THEM AS

Christians are GODS PEOPLE, come in faith.

Christians are the 'sheep who hear His voice'

Christians are 'gentiles grafted in amongst His sheep'  EITHER the NATURAL BRANCHES NOT CUT OFF or the wild branches grafted in

 ONE TREE. ONE destiny.  

Christians are ABRAHAMS SEED and just like THEM, 'heirs to the promise'.  jUST because the PROMISE IS CHRIST doesn't mean ANOTHER TREE. 

 

20But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:

25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.


SHALL WE LEAVE BEHIND 'the more feeble' those who didn't come to the truth soon enough?  NO, we are made one, like the Father and Son are one. 

Daniel 9 deals with both, the Jeremiah prophecy of 70 years (that were almost over), and the vision of the 70 weeks that were going to begin. 

But HERE is a verse that tells us that ISRAEL IS IN ALL COUNTRIES

7O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee. 

so even back THEN ISRAEL was going all over the world and it was GOD driving them. 

GOD SENDING GODS PEOPLE OUT TO POPULATE THE WORLD 


BEFORE the NEW TESTAMENT was even SENT OUT to the world.  But when the 'good news' was sent out to the world, the sheep hear His voice and THE CHURCH grows bigger and bigger opened to 'whomsoever' would


SO DANIELS PEOPLE AREN'T JUST THOSE in the Land, or of the nation or kingdom but

ISRAEL is Gods People doing Gods work all over the world

and THAT is what the gentiles are grafted in amongst, called the body of Christ/the church

making the SO CALLED 'gentile church' is just another part of the 'pre trib theory' making void the words of God.  


So the CHURCH is of Israel.  And when the gospel has been preached to ALL THE WORLD then the time of spreading the good news and the offer of SALVATION ends and the blindness of the 'part' is removed, and the natural branches are grafted back in and the 2 sticks are made one and the day of vengeance begins. 

AND THE REASON no one can find any scripture pertaining to a pre trib rapt gentile church.  Not for what would be a 3rd Advent, NOR a 2nd 'alive and remaining' being changed, NOR God becoming a respecter of a PART of the last generation, NOR an enduring to the 'gentile church age end', NOR a not standing and overcoming, NOR not carrying our cross, NOR not suffering with Him yet being worthy, NOR a secret rapture, NOR a dividing of the church, nor the hundreds of other things written that are rendered null and void. 


So, GOD DID RESTORE ISRAEL in 1948 and we know HE DID because once again the Nation of Israel was placed on the map of the world.  


AS for (verses: Daniel 9:2, Daniel 9:7, Daniel 9:16) I believe they are of Jeremiah and are past.  

16O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.



Just as 

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


all that is past 




BUT ALL THIS IS FUTURE as none of this has ever taken place 

There has never been a covenant 'for a week' with anyone

never has the whole world been deceived and all the prayers and supplications gone to an Adversary,

neither has there been a consummation of the overspreading of abominations

and GOD HAS NEVER POURED OUT THE VIALS of wrath upon those destroying 

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I am going to stop here in an effort to keep this short.  Agreement or disagreement?  

Hey there again.  Thanks for the overview! 

Well, I still have to disagree regarding what is past and what is future.   I’ll go ahead and repost the relevant scriptures (9:24-27) to make it easier for others to follow.

"Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

- Daniel 9:24-27 

I believe all of this is future.  None of it has happened yet, and that’s why we need to keep our eyes on Jerusalem, for all end times prophecy will happen in that location.

“To finish the transgression and to make an end of sins”  Has this happened yet?  No.  This refers to “the day of vengeance” written about in Isaiah 61:2.  

To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn, …

 - Isaiah 61:2 

“to bring in everlasting righteousness”  This doesn’t happen until Jesus returns and sets up His kingdom that shall never be destroyed.

”to seal up the vision and the prophecy” means to fulfill all the prophecies that Jesus gave in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21.

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

- Matthew 24:34 

 

[DeighAnn]

3 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn, …

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.



and THIS IS THE PART HE DIDN'T SAY WAS BEING FULFILLED THAT DAY

1The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

3To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

4And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

 

[DeighAnn]

8 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

"Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

Do you realize that CYRUS sent forth a command to rebuild?

and that it was rebuilt,

and that the MESSIAH was born

and He was also cut off

and then the city was destroyed?  

Did you know that the NUMBERS fit perfectly with what was said and what was done?  
 

EZRA
1Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,

2Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

3Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.

4And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

5Then rose up the chief of the fathers of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests, and the Levites, with all them whose spirit God had raised, to go up to build the house of the LORD which is in Jerusalem.

6And all they that were about them strengthened their hands with vessels of silver, with gold, with goods, and with beasts, and with precious things, beside all that was willingly offered.

7Also Cyrus the king brought forth the vessels of the house of the LORD, which Nebuchadnezzar had brought forth out of Jerusalem, and had put them in the house of his gods;

8Even those did Cyrus king of Persia bring forth by the hand of Mithredath the treasurer, and numbered them unto Sheshbazzar, the prince of Judah.

9And this is the number of them: thirty chargers of gold, a thousand chargers of silver, nine and twenty knives,

10Thirty basons of gold, silver basons of a second sort four hundred and ten, and other vessels a thousand.

11All the vessels of gold and of silver were five thousand and four hundred. All these did Sheshbazzar bring up with them of the captivity that were brought up from Babylon unto Jerusalem.

 

[Revelation Man]

On 12/29/2022 at 12:39 PM, dad2 said:

The timing here is before the 1000 years since they reign for the 1000 years

You missed the whole point, The whole verse, save the last bit, is not a part of the three verses, its an aside, a parenthesis, like this from another one of my posts(so pay it no attention) < LIKE THIS.

I mean when Moses and Elijah says, Hey, when you see this AoD (they will explain what it is no doubt) do not tarry, FLEE, do not look back. 

The above in bold is not a part of the sentence, it is an aside, or a POINT BEING MADE TO HELP CLARIFY. Again, take out the verses and just use the whole passage as intended. 

(Rev. 20:4-6) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished). This is the first resurrection.  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

See how it is also an ASIDE in parenthesis? 

While John is telling about the First Resurrection, he throws in that these rest of the dead (Second Resurrection) will be raised after Jesus 1000 year reign (where they will also be judged).

The whole point was how people confuse passages because they do not understand the way they wrote back then, nor do they understand Old English(e) writing. 

The point is all three verses are about the First Resurrection, (which happens over a 7 year period) and the part talking about when the rest of the dead (THE WICKED) are raised is an ASSIDE like THE WICKED in this sentence above !!

On 12/29/2022 at 1:23 PM, dad2 said:

In Dan 9 I think it is correct that the he refers to the prince that shall come (AntiChrist)

We are thus in agreement on this then.(Short reply, LOL)

On 12/29/2022 at 1:23 PM, dad2 said:

In that case it works out the same as what I said. I see no issue.

Just making the point there were no Verse & Chapters and that they were all ADDED, thus we need to understand FALLABLE MEN added the verses and chapters and may have split them up wrongly, we must always be cognizant of this. 

On 12/29/2022 at 1:23 PM, dad2 said:

Great. No problem. Obviously it is not just one day.

 

YUP........

On 12/29/2022 at 1:23 PM, dad2 said:

Conjecture.

 

No, if it hits (IT WILL.......the time is at hand if one understands prophecy, I do) it will hit just off the Mexico/USA Coastline. Its called calculations my friend. And the 1/3 is also not conjecture, its also math and common sense. 

On 12/29/2022 at 1:23 PM, dad2 said:

What is your point? Is it that you are saying the day of the Lord starts and ends in a certain time? Keep it simple.

No, I am showing how Prophecy is not all TIDY & PERFECTLY LINEAR, we get jumps in time, sometimes 500 years sometimes 2000 years, sometimes BOTH in one prophetic uttering. So, those who use Matt. 24:29 to say IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation of those days Jesus comes back have no understanding of prophecy, all that is being referenced in that verse is the Sun and Moon going dark, like happens in Rev. 8, the 4th Trump, then in verse 30 the THEN......jumps 1260 days to Jesus' Second Coming. 

On 12/29/2022 at 1:23 PM, dad2 said:

What is your point? Looking at Rev 8 the first angel sounded and we see this

 

The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

 

What has that to do with an asteroid that you gave a name to?  Try to be clear rather than trying to sound deep.

Type this BELOW in YOUTUBE and watch it (24 minutes). He saw a vision of this. He also saw a Vision that Pope Benidict would resign, no pope had ever resigned in 600 years, his Catholic friends said you just ended your career. The Pope resigned suddenly. 

The WORMWOOD Prophecy: 2029 Asteroid Striking Earth? | Tom Horn

The First Trumpet Judgment is sulfur balls dropping over the land as this Asteroid is burning coming through our atmosphere and breaking up, most break apart fully, one this big will not, it will thus set thousands of fires as these sulfur balls fall off.

A Christian Scientist proved the Sodom & Gomorrah event was factual, he theorized that if Sodom was burned up by an asteroid, he could look in the Dead Sea and find the sulfur balls intact, but if they hit in land they would not survive, they burn themselves up completely. Well, he found sulfur balls in the Dead Sea just a bit from where Sodom would have been at. So the Fire coming in first is a factual point.

This guy said a Science friend from NASA was like, you do know Rev. 8 is ONE EVENT in  different stages don't you, and he stated I never thought of that until he said it. So, FIRE comes first from a huge asteroid trying to break apart.

Then of course comes the IMPACT (Trump #2) that causes what John sees as a GREAT EARTHQUAKE (well YEA, if he saw it hit, of course the earth shook). It hits in the ocean (Mountain cast into the sea).  Then with Trump #3 this is simple, he speaks of WORMWOOD (Bitter/Poison) and says the fresh waters were made bitter or poisoned. That is the FALLOUT from the impact, be it sulfur like happened to the Dinos 70 million years ago or a "nuclear type" fallout from  some unknown metal/substance, matters not, the IMPACT happens then some kind of poisonous FALLOUT is Trumpet number 3 !!

Trump #4 is simply the EFFECT of all the fires, which will also burn millions of houses, this smoke will get up in the Jetstream and filter the daylight out somewhat (by 1/3) and the moon and the stars all become dimer, of course. The Fires will make the moon appear to be blood red(Joel 2:31) because of the hue via the fires.

I can only explain, I can not make one grasp the facts on this.

On 12/29/2022 at 1:23 PM, dad2 said:

Now where are you wandering off to? What event exactly and what does it have to do with anything here?

 

You understand I think, it just defeats your point. Zech. 14:1-2 is the Anti-Christ, verses 3-4 and on are Jesus showing up 1260 days later. In verse 2 Jerusalem gets Conquered, in verse 3 Jesus wins. They thus CAN NOT be the SAME EVENT !! There is a 1260 day jump in time between verses 2 and 3.

On 12/29/2022 at 1:23 PM, dad2 said:

So you seem to ignore the Great Tribulation. That is the specific time where prophesy focuses on. That is the wrath of God. All other tribulations are not like the final days at all.

Matthew 24:21

 

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be

No, I am pointing out the Great Tribulation lasts only for the last 42 months.  Not for the last 7 years. Jesus in the verse you cited speaks about the 1290 (midst of the week) event. Thus the Jews have 30 days to Flee Judea before the 1260 Wrath starts, it lasts for 1260 days and happens thus 1260 days before Jesus' Second Coming where he ends ALL OF THESE WONDERS (Dan. 11:36-45 Anti-Christ) Daniel was shown. In Rev. 18:4 God says come out of here my people............this is Him telling Israel to flee Babylon (Wicked World). 

On 12/29/2022 at 1:23 PM, dad2 said:

I am not sure that ONLY those who were beheaded get raised when He returns. Those who were beheaded in that time do get raised and apparently first as a blessing.

 

There is plenty that goes on in the first three and a half years as well. Horrors. The angels are sounding populations dying etc etc. So I agree with the people that say it is all the period of the wrath of God. Of course the great day when Jesus returns caps it all off! The mid point is also a specially horrible part of that.

 

Those who DIE during this time serve on earth with Jesus for 1000 years in Glorious bodies, the Raptured Church thus must, I assume, go back to Heaven in order to finish off the New Jerusalem, thus as it descends it is called the Bride of Christ. 

The First 3.5 years is the fake peace, REMEMBER Dan. 8:25? He kills MANY BY PEACE !! Remember the 2nd Seal? He TAKES PEACE from the World, not brings War, it was said like this by God ON PURPOSE, even though it means the same thing.

Those Beheaded means all who die for refusing to take the Mark of the Beast, thus its a metaphor, they die in modern days via a quick bullet mostly. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Revelation Man

[Selah7]

25 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Do you realize that CYRUS sent forth a command to rebuild?

and that it was rebuilt,

and that the MESSIAH was born

and He was also cut off

and then the city was destroyed?  

Did you know that the NUMBERS fit perfectly with what was said and what was done?  
 

EZRA
1Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,

2Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

3Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.

4And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

5Then rose up the chief of the fathers of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests, and the Levites, with all them whose spirit God had raised, to go up to build the house of the LORD which is in Jerusalem.

6And all they that were about them strengthened their hands with vessels of silver, with gold, with goods, and with beasts, and with precious things, beside all that was willingly offered.

7Also Cyrus the king brought forth the vessels of the house of the LORD, which Nebuchadnezzar had brought forth out of Jerusalem, and had put them in the house of his gods;

8Even those did Cyrus king of Persia bring forth by the hand of Mithredath the treasurer, and numbered them unto Sheshbazzar, the prince of Judah.

9And this is the number of them: thirty chargers of gold, a thousand chargers of silver, nine and twenty knives,

10Thirty basons of gold, silver basons of a second sort four hundred and ten, and other vessels a thousand.

11All the vessels of gold and of silver were five thousand and four hundred. All these did Sheshbazzar bring up with them of the captivity that were brought up from Babylon unto Jerusalem.

 

So what does any of the above have to do with the eventual restoration of Israel? I'm still persuaded by Scripture that Israel will not be restored until the second coming of Christ.

"I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely, For My anger has turned away from him. I will be like the dew to Israel; He shall grow like the lily, And lengthen his roots like Lebanon. His branches shall spread; His beauty shall be like an olive tree, And his fragrance like Lebanon. Those who dwell under his shadow shall return; They shall be revived like grain, And grow like a vine. Their scent shall be like the wine of Lebanon.

- Hosea 14:4-7 

 

"For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. "Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. "I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. "And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. "Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations. "Not for your sake do I do this," says the Lord GOD, "let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!" ' Thus says the Lord GOD: "On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt. "The desolate land shall be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by. "So they will say, 'This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden; and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.' "Then the nations which are left all around you shall know that I, the LORD, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted what was desolate. I, the LORD, have spoken it, and I will do it." ' Thus says the Lord GOD: "I will also let the house of Israel inquire of Me to do this for them: I will increase their men like a flock. "Like a flock offered as holy sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem on its feast days, so shall the ruined cities be filled with flocks of men. Then they shall know that I am the LORD." ' "

- Ezekiel 36:24-38

 

 

[Retrobyter]

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, God's Spirit (Holy Spirit) only comes into us, when we are saved right? So, it is a parallel event brother. In other words Zech. 13:8-9 happens to be the same event as Ezekiel 37:14. The 1/3 (3.5-5 million Jews (Israelis from all 12 tribes) come to Salvation via the Messiah, but they will have the Fathers name on their forehead, Rev. 7 and 14 says so.

Shalom, Revelation Man.

You're not understanding a remnant correctly:

Zechariah 13:8-9 is part of the larger prophecy:

Zechariah 13:7-9 (KJV)

7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow," saith the LORD of hosts: "smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. 8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land," saith the LORD, "two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. (This much happened in the First Century!) 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, 'It is my people!': and they shall say, 'The LORD is my God!'"

(The rest of this happened from the First Century A.D. to the present. The "remnant," being all that is left, have multiplied and grown quite a bit since the First Century!)

As far as Ezekiel 37 is concerned, one should really read AT LEAST the whole chapter!

Ezekiel 37:1-28 (KJV)

1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. 3 And he said unto me,

"Son of man, can these bones live?"

And I answered,

"O Lord GOD, thou knowest."

4 Again he said unto me,

"Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them,

"'O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. 5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones';

"'"Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD."'"

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. 9 Then said he unto me,

"Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD';

"'"Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live."'"

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. 11 Then he said unto me,

"Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.' 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD';

"'"Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it," saith the LORD.'"

15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 

16 "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, 'For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions' : then take another stick, and write upon it, 'For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions' : 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, 'Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?' 19 Say unto them, 

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD';

"'"Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand."'

20 "And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21 And say unto them,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD';

"'"Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God."'"

24 "'"And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one Shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."'"

This is not just some figurative speech! It is a VERY REAL prophecy of the LITERAL RESURRECTION of the children of Israel!

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Any Jewish people who come to Christ before the Pre Trib Rapture will go with the Church (like John in Rev. 4:1) to marry the Lamb in Heaven. All Jewish people who come to repentance after the Rapture will remain on earth to help Jesus, their Lord and Brother through King David etc. rule on this earth via the Kingdom Age.

You've got this SOME OF THIS correct, but not only does the "ekkleesia" NOT go TO "Heaven," but they are NOT married to the Lamb IN "Heaven!" The Marriage is performed HERE on THIS EARTH! In John 2:1-11, Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") performed the changing of the water into wine for a wedding feast in Cana. Thus, wine is an INTRICATE part of the Wedding Feast celebration.

But, Yeeshuwa` said,

Matthew 26:26-29 (KJV)

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said,

"Take, eat; this is my body."

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying,

"Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."

This is said again in the other two Synoptic Gospels, Mark 14:22-25 and Luke 22:14-20, as well!

And, when does His Kingdom start?

Matthew 25:31 (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

Also, "glory" is NOT a reference to "Heaven!" It is the Greek word "doxa" which means "being very apparent," like a white star against the blackness of space! When talking about a king, it refers to the king's FAME or SPLENDOR, and Paul used the word in 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 to describe the BRIGHTNESS of the sun, moon, and stars!

So, He won't participate in the Marriage of the Lamb until He comes back to earth, which is earlier than Revelation 19, btw!

More importantly however, we've got to go back to the old question, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" The children of Israel are not grafted into the "Church" (and there's actually no such thing; they were "churches" in the Bible). Instead, the Gentiles are grafted into the Israeli Kingdom of God, with the Messiah as its King!

Now, granted, those branches which were lopped off because of unbelief must be grafted into the Israeli Kingdom of God, too, but they are the "NATURAL branches," as opposed to the "branches of a wild olive tree (an oleaster tree)!" Oh, and just to complete the analogy, Israel (as under King David) is the "chicken"; the "churches" are the "eggs!"

 

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Those who die are the Gentile Martyrs during the trib. I say Gentiles because the Jewish peoples who repent are protected, the other (2/3 will perish Zech. 13:8) but I image a few Jewish converts will be Martyred also, if they fail to flee unto Judea, but overall the Martyrs should be the Gentiles who come to a ...?

No, see, here's what I was talking about above! These 2/3rds who perish already perished back in 70 A.D. and 135 A.D.! Now, that remnant of 1/3 BACK THEN has GROWN into the current numbers! There's no reason to prune them again! There's no such thing as a "permanent remnant!" One must recognize that some prophecies have already come true, even if other prophecies or other parts of the same prophecy have yet to be finished!

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Catch my drift on the TIMINGS? 

No, I just understand the way it was written because I have spent 37 years called to decipher prophecy, the odd way the KJV is written has become fairly easy for me to understand, after years of study and prayer.

Sure. Just remember though, that what we consider "odd" today was the way the ORIGINAL English was used back in the early 1600s! Actually, what we speak today is the "odd" way, as English has mutated (and not always for the better) down through the centuries! And, as I've said in several topics already, the "thee's" and "thou's" are merely the SINGULAR English forms of the second person, while the "ye's" and "you's" are PLURAL!

Furthermore, they had words that have gone into disuse today, like "wot," the past tense of the verb "to wit" meaning "to know or understand." Also, the word "trow" which is rather a combination of "trust" and "know." When one looks it up in Merriam-Webster's dictionary, it says

"1 obsolete: believe
2 archaic: think."

And, it is pronounced with a long o sound, like "know."

Obviously, this would be in the "study" part more than in the "prayer" part.

Just be sure that you're staying up-to-date when looking at prophecies. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, Christians didn't know as much about Hebrew and the fulfillment of ancient prophecies as they do today. However, as the schooling has become more available to all, and archaeology has provided more information to fill the gaps of knowledge we had about the ancient past, our teachings on prophecy need to be brought up to date from time to time! While God's Word hasn't changed in all that time, our UNDERSTANDING of God's Word has improved in some ways, and in other ways, not so much!

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The last part of Rev. 20:5 can ONLY go with Rev. 20:4, the Wicked are raised after 1000 years at the Second Resurrection, so how can they  be a part of the First Resurrection?

This is absolutely right, and of course, Revelation 20:6 completes the picture that these are the RIGHTEOUS ones (or rather, the JUSTIFIED ones) who are in the First Resurrection, which includes also those who WEREN'T beheaded during the "tribulation."

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

It would do you good to remember there were no Chapter and Verses, the KJV brought us that, its good for recital and memory of scriptures, but what if they divided the word in WRONG PLACES?

Sort of true. Actually, we read in Wikipedia:

"Cardinal Hugo de Sancto Caro is often given credit for first dividing the Latin Vulgate into chapters in the real sense, but it is the arrangement of his contemporary and fellow cardinal Stephen Langton who in 1205 created the chapter divisions which are used today. They were then inserted into Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in the 16th century. Robert Estienne (Robert Stephanus) was the first to number the verses within each chapter, his verse numbers entering printed editions in 1551 (New Testament) and 1571 (Hebrew Bible).[23]

"The division of the Bible into chapters and verses has received criticism from some traditionalists and modern scholars. Critics state that the text is often divided in an incoherent way, or at inappropriate rhetorical points, and that it encourages citing passages out of context. Nevertheless, the chapter and verse numbers have become indispensable as technical references for Bible study."

(See Chapters and verses of the Bible.)

So, the chapters with verse numbers were introduced in the 16rh Century (from 1501 to 1600), and since the King James Authorized Version was first introduced in 1611 as ONE of the first English Bibles, it was the first COMMONPLACE version with the chapter and verse numbers. This was because, despite the general population being mostly illiterate, their English-speaking clergymen or clerics were forced to read from the KJV or the AV in their masses, since this was the ONLY version authorized by the King, the head of the Anglican Church!

Being hand-copied, these copies of the KJV would frequently disappear at first, being found so valuable. This led to them being CHAINED to the pulpits to help prevent theft and their theft counted as a "capital crime"; that is, a crime worthy of death by beheading, decappitating! Thus, this version was called a "chained Bible," such as The Chained Bible at the Holy Trinity Church in Stratford, England. (See The Chained Bible.)

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

like Daniel 9:25-27 ? I think half of verse 26 should go with verse 25 and the other half should go with 27 like this.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be (1)seven weeks, and (2)threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall(49 years), even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off(434 years later Jesus dies for mankind)  , but not for himself:

---------------------------------

and the people (Romans/Europeans) of the prince that shall come (The Anti-Christ 2000 years later...SOON) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (in 70 AD); and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Army swamps Jerusalem), and unto the end of the war desolations are determined (Diaspora). 27 And he shall confirm the covenant (Agreement) with many (Not just Israel, the whole Mediterranean Sea Region) for one week(7 Years): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease(the 1290 happens 30 days BEFORE he becomes the Beast), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation(he will speak blasphemies and murder until Jesus returns), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The HE is pointing back to the prince to come [2000 years later] in verse 26 but it should go with verse 27 !! That is my point. 

You're mixing time markers in SPITE of the division you want to make! They are "the people (ROMANS/Europeans), who "destroy the city and the sanctuary in 70 A.D.," but the "prince that shall come is 2,000 years later"?! I can understand how this is a problem for those who believe that the "prince that shall come" is the "Antihrist." But, one must understand that the "antichrist" is not a person; it is a "spirit," an "attitude," or a "position held" of being "against the Messiah." The person is actually identified as "the Beast," "the man of lawlessness" or "the man against the Torah." This only makes the most sense if the "man" is a Jew.

HOWEVER, this man here, "the prince that shall come," should also be relegated to the First Century, when "the city and the sanctuary" are destroyed "in 70 A.D." This man, then would be TITUS, for he was in charge of the Roman legion troops who invaded Jerusalem, laying siege to it from 67 to 70 A.D!

Y'know, we have this account in 66 A.D. from several sources:

The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ traveled from Jerusalem, so that when holy men had altogether deserted the royal capital of the Jews and the whole land of Judaea…" 

— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3

This heresy of the Nazoraeans exists in Beroea in the neighbourhood of Coele Syria and the Decapolis in the region of Pella and in Basanitis in the so-called Kokaba (Chochabe in Hebrew). From there it took its beginning after the exodus from Jerusalem when all the disciples went to live in Pella because Christ had told them to leave Jerusalem and to go away since it would undergo a siege. Because of this advice they lived in Perea after having moved to that place, as I said."

— Epiphanius, Panarion 29,7,7-8

For after all those who believed in Christ had generally come to live in Perea, in a city called Pella of the Decapolis of which it is written in the Gospel that it is situated in the neighbourhood of the region of Batanaea and Basanitis, Ebion's preaching originated here after they had moved to this place and had lived there." 

— Epiphanius, Panarion 30, 2, 7

So Aquila, while he was in Jerusalem, also saw the disciples of the disciples of the apostles flourishing in the faith and working great signs, healings, and other miracles. For they were such as had come back from the city of Pella to Jerusalem and were living there and teaching. For when the city was about to be taken and destroyed by the Romans, it was revealed in advance to all the disciples by an angel of God that they should remove from the city, as it was going to be completely destroyed. They sojourned as emigrants in Pella, the city above mentioned in Transjordania. And this city is said to be of the Decapolis." 

— Epiphanius, On Weights and Measures 15

For more, see Flight to Pella.

See, the key word in verse 26 is "And AFTER ( NOT "at!") threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off." Calculations I have seen place the "threescore and two (62) weeks" at the BAPTISM of the Messiah, not His death! Furthermore, the details of this time are presented in verse 27! These are not activities of the "Antichrist" or the "Beast" or the "man of lawlessness"; these are the activities of the MESSIAH HIMSELF before and as He went to the cross! 

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week" = Luke 1:30-33, the DAVIDIC COVENANT, see also 2 Samuel 7 and 1 Chronicles 17.
"and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" = Hebrews 10:1-22.
"for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation" = Matthew 23:1-39, particularly verse 38:

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.'"

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

So, 49 + 434 + 7 = 490 years. 

No doubt! However, the first 3.5 years of the final 7 were fulfilled in the Ministry and Death (and Resurrection) of the Messiah in the First Century. Only the LAST 3.5 years are left! And, they won't be finished until AFTER our Messiah has returned!

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 20:4-6 could likewise be this: ONE PASSAGE

 Rev. 20 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished". This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The Parenthesis would fit nicely here we use the () at times, but he is basically speaking about the First Resurrection, then tells what will happen to the Wicked as an aside. We have to be careful about the verses they were added by fallible men like us. (SMILE).

No, I understand the DOTL is 3.5 years of Wrath that STARTS in ONE DAY, but I also see the DOTL as not only the 3.5 years of Wrath, but the 1000 year reign of Christ, it is the ONE DAY when Jesus and God start taking back Dominion from Satan, who tricked Adam and Eve out of the Dominion God gave them over this earth.

It's important to note three things here:

FIRST, He comes BEFORE the 1,000 years starts, and therefore, the 3.5 years and the Reign of the Messiah OVERLAP!

Revelation 6:12-17 (KJV)

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks,

"Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Compare this to Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; and Luke 21:25-28.

Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV)

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Mark 13:24-27 (KJV)

24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

Luke 21:25-28 (KJV)

25 "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

 

SECOND, the 1,000 years are NOT about the time of His reign; they are the time that Satan is locked away in the bottomless pit!

Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV)

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

THIRD, the Messiah reigns FOREVER upon the throne of David and over the house of Jacob!

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

 

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The E.U. is many nations not one nation, IMHO, the two Americas get hit by the Asteroid Apophis and are no longer sustainable powers at all, the 1/3 that burns etc. IMHO, is the DESTINATION of the Apophis Asteroid.

This is another reason why it's a good idea to keep abreast of the news:

99942 Apophis

"99942 Apophis is a near-Earth asteroid and potentially hazardous asteroid with a diameter of 370 metres (1,210 feet) that caused a brief period of concern in December 2004 when initial observations indicated a probability up to 2.7% that it would hit Earth on April 13, 2029. Additional observations provided improved predictions that eliminated the possibility of an impact on Earth in 2029. Until 2006, a small probability nevertheless remained that, during its 2029 close encounter with Earth, Apophis would pass through a gravitational keyhole of no more than about 800 metres (1⁄2 mi) in diameter,[11][12] which would have set up a future impact exactly seven years later on April 13, 2036. This possibility kept it at Level 1 on the Torino impact hazard scale until August 2006, when the probability that Apophis would pass through the keyhole was determined to be very small and Apophis' rating on the Torino scale was lowered to zero. By 2008, the keyhole had been determined to be less than 1 km wide.[11] During the short time when it had been of greatest concern, Apophis set the record for highest rating ever on the Torino scale, reaching level 4 on December 27, 2004.[13]

"The diameter of Apophis is estimated to be approximately 370 metres (1,210 ft).[3] Preliminary observations by Goldstone radar in January 2013 effectively ruled out the possibility of an Earth impact by Apophis in 2036.[14] By May 6, 2013 (April 15, 2013, observation arc), the possibility of an impact on April 13, 2036 had been eliminated altogether.[3] Apophis will make two modestly close approaches to Earth in 2036, but even the planet Venus will come closer to Earth in 2036. On April 12, 2068, the nominal trajectory has Apophis 1.87 AU (280 million km) from Earth.[15] Entering March 2021, six asteroids each had a more notable cumulative Palermo Technical Impact Hazard Scale than Apophis, and none of those has a Torino level above 0.[16][a] On average, an asteroid the size of Apophis (370 metres) is expected to impact Earth once in about 80,000 years.[17]Observations in 2020 by the Subaru telescope confirmed David Vokrouhlický's 2015 Yarkovsky effect predictions.[18] The Goldstone radarobserved Apophis March 3–11, 2021, helping to refine the orbit again,[19] and on March 25, 2021, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory announced that Apophis has no chance of impacting Earth in the next 100 years.[20][21] The uncertainty in the 2029 approach distance has been reduced from hundreds of kilometers to now just a couple of kilometers,[22] greatly enhancing predictions of future approaches. Apophis was removed altogether from the Sentry Risk Table the next day.[23]

Now, I'm NOT saying that there WON'T be a collision with a comet or asteroid, producing the meteors and meteorites predicted at least from Revelation 6:13 to 9:12! It just won't be this one any time soon!

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

North & South America have 1/3 of the worlds Landmass, basically; look it up. The Pacific Ocean has 1/3 of all the waters on the face of the earth; look it up. I did via a hunch; it gave me chills. Why would God/Jesus burn up the Old World when Jesus is going to rule from Jerusalem, NOW we know why they are called the Kings of the East (SMILE) everything in the West is pretty much destroyed. So, after the Gog and Magog war wipes out Russia, Turkey and Iran and the USA loses its Christian base AND gets hit by Apophis, the E.U. Anti-Christ will have no road blocks left, I think China will fall via the soon to come Economic Collapse.

No, no, no, notice Zech. 14:3 its says THEN.......Shall the Lord go Forth.  Now lets look at Matt. 24:29 and 30 it has the exact same phraseology, AND THEN..........WATCH.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light(The 1260 Asteroid Event {Trump #2}, CAUSES the Sun and Moons light to DIM Immediately after it hits {Trump #4} Go read it), and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So, the DOTL hits (Rev. 8, Trumps 1-4, then Woes 1, 2 and 3 and THEN 1260 days LATER Jesus shows up.)

I think you will find that Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") shows up a little sooner than that, and the 1,260 days happen AFTER His arrival.

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Put it together man. I am orchestrating a symphony here, play your pipes in tune man, lets roll. (SMILE). If you only understood how much of the End Times I actually understand, for 30 years, even called unto Prophecy it was fuzzy, now its very clear unto me, God has blessed me with a gift. We all have our gifts brother. 

Gifts aside, we need to stay abreast of the history and the current events (history unfolding).

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course it is, Zech. 14:1 states the DOTL has arrived, that happens in Rev. 8 via an Asteroid Impact. Look, if you had to write prophecy for the year 4000, you could not give every detailed minutia needed, you would wind up with chapters as long as the great Moby Dick book. You would also need to mish mash in order to tie events together. For instance, read Zechariah 13 very carefully. The whole chapter is about the End Times and Israel repenting, EXCEPT verses 6-7 which refer unto Jesus' hands being wounded and if you SMITE the Shepard the flock will be scattered, does that have anything to do with the very End Times? No, but now what a Prophecy we have !! We see WHO brings the Fountain that Cleanses Israel in verse 1, and Zechariah wrote this long before both Jesus' death AND the End Time Repentance of Israel thus having both in one chapter is a HUGE BOOST to the accuracy of the prophecy !! That is why those two verses were thrown in there by God !! You see how that is 2000 years apart? Its the same thing, except those two verses are only 1260 days apart in Zech. 14:2 and 3 and in Matt. 24:29 and 30.

Another HUGE CLUE that if you think this through will put you onto the truth here, Jesus does not lose any end time war my friend, in Zech. 14:1-2 Israel gets SACKED and RAVAGED, they LOSE..........So verse three says THEN (1260 days later) Jesus our Lord shows up to take care of business. So, it can not be the SAME EVENT sir !! BOOM !!

No it is not, the Wrath was not for Israel per se or all 490 years would have been Wrath, so why do you say the WHOLE WEEK has to be Wrath? All time on this earth is tribulation, Jesus told us that in  John 16:33, so the Church Age was Great Tribulation, that is why those seen in Rev. 7:9-16 came out of Great Tribulation, they are the Church Age Saints, and can be no other. The Martyrs under the 5th Seal (mostly Gentiles) have to WAIT until the Beasts 42 month rule is over before they can get their vengeance, Jesus says so, wait a little season until ALL your brothers have been killed in like manner (by the Beasts 42 month rule) as you have.

And in Rev.20:4 we see those who refused the Mark of the Beast only get raised and judged AFTER Jesus' return, so yes, ALL TIME on this earth is tribulation, the Church Age AND the 70th week, but only 3.5 years are the Greatest Troubles Ever Seen, Jesus tells us that in Matt. 24:15-17, The AoD happens at the 1290, then the Jews have 30 days to flee Judea. Thus the Greatest Ever Troubles known to mankind last for 1260 days, the same amount of time Satan is cast down to earth for, and he chases the Woman (Israel) for 1260 days !!

During that time God will slay a few billion wicked people, and the Anti-Christ will kill a billion or two billion people, there will be no trouble like these troubles ever seen before or since Jesus says. Dan. 12:7 tells us it lasts for 1260 days. Dan. 12:11 tells us the False Prophet stops the Sacrifice (Jesus worship) from being worshiped in the temple AND that he places the AoD at the 1290, or 30 days before the Anti-Christ becomes the Beast at the 1260. The 1335 comes 75 days before the 1260 and 45 days before the 1290, it is the coming Two-witnesses who turn Israel back to God JUST BEFORE the coming DOTL falls on mankind. All of these numbers represent a specific number of days from SAID EVENTS, until ALL THESE WONDERS END via Jesus' Second Coming. Amen. 

By the way, NOWHERE can you find anywhere in the bible that says the 144,000 WITNESS or PREACH the Gospel like Super Preachers, it IS NOT THERE ANYWHERE, go find it, I used to believe the something. 

Here is what Rev. 7 (Paraphrasing) basically says, HOLD UP the four winds (Judgments) and HURT NOT the Trees, Sea or Earth until we have sealed the "144,000". (which simply means like us, they will have the Seal of Life from God in them via Faith). So, if these are super Witnesses/Preachers, why does the Revelation 8 Trumpet Judgments need to be HELD UP? Trumps 1-4 hurt what? The Trees (1/3 burn) the Seas (an Asteroid hits the Ocean) and the Earth, of course. So, why do the judgments need to be held up? So the Jews who repent (3.5-5 million = 1/3) can flee unto Judea.

Read Rev. 18:4 Come out of her (Babylon/World) my people (Israel) that you receive not of her plagues. This is the same event in Rev. 18 as Rev. 7. Just before 18:4 NOTICE in verse 2 Babylon (whole world) has become a Habitation of Devils (Satan has been cast down/Apollyon released from the pit). Then also in Rev.14:6 we are told an Angel Proclaims the Gospel unto the WHOLE WORLD (because the Church is gone of course) and Israel (the 144,000) are being protected in the Petra/Bozrah area by God himself. Now GO SEARCH Rev. 7 and 14 and find anywhere that it says the 144,000 witness or preach !!

CONTINUED...........

Well, I think there's some re-thinking through these scenarios. It would be best that one focus on the OT prophecies and see how Revelation lines up with them, not the other way around.

[dad2]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

SURE, the Adversary will STAND in Jerusalem but the end time is about everyone everywhere.

The LAND allotted FOR THE TRIBE OF JUDAH contains 'Jerusalem'.   So what is the point?

NOT recognizing how THE BIBLE uses the term JEW in favor of how THE WORLD uses the term JEW, is not a strawman,

it is necessary TO RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORDS OF GOD because when you don't, you end up believing lies instead of Gods Truth. 

Armies will also surround Jerusalem. It is there we will know when the Great Tribulation starts. It is there people are warned to flee right away when it does. The whole time is referred to as the time of Jacob's trouble. It is there that Jesus will touch down. It is there that He will judge nations..etc. No reason to minimize it. It is not about some pure race descended from the tribe of Judah at all. Of course the whole world will be under tribulation and wrath. It is of course for the world. You seem to be dancing around the floor but making no point.

[dad2]

21 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

You've got this SOME OF THIS correct, but not only does the "ekkleesia" NOT go TO "Heaven," but they are NOT married to the Lamb IN "Heaven!"

Jesus said we would go where He was. If we are Raptured before the wrath of God that we are no appointed to, that is where we go. By the time we return with Jesus the marriage supper is over. Blessed are they that are called to it. That sounds like a heavenly marriage supper.

 

One commentary says this

 

"So it seems plain that we are warranted in viewing Israel as the earthly bride and the church as the heavenly bride. Both are dear to His heart. He purchased them with His precious blood, but each has a special character of her own."

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/isn/revelation-19.html#verse-1