Give up Salvation?

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

iow, the LOF will be an eternal state for unbelievers.

for that to be GODS TRUTH one would have to MAKE VOID their PART/PORTION BEING THE 2ND DEATH.

8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.



 3313. meros ►
Strong's Concordance
meros: a part, share, portion
Original Word: μέρος, ους, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: meros
Phonetic Spelling: (mer'-os)
Definition: a part, share, portion
Usage: a part, portion, share.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

So we know that it will be MORE bearable for some in the LOF and LESS bearable for others.

The idea that the LOF will be a place of UNbearable torment is unbiblical.

8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:
which is the second death.



THE PUNISHMENT IS DEATH.  
THE DEATH TAKES PLACE IN THE LAKE.



 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

The idea that the LOF will be a place of UNbearable torment is unbiblical.

The idea that the LOF is NOT THE 2ND DEATH is what is unbiblical.  

[other one]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

You are taking what CLEARLY ARE NOT MEN and saying they are men.  MEN DON'T MAKE FIRE COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN.

with the new laser technology I'm not so sure that's true.

[Jayne]

4 hours ago, Michael37 said:

He did mean it in the sense that it was a burning issue with him, but it could only be rhetorical. Paul was a master of rhetoric. He knew that giving up his salvation wouldn't secure that of his kinsmen.

Yes, I know.

[Michael37]

7 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Yes, I know.

You would also know Paul didn't actually wait till the coast was clear and rob churches of their offerings. 🙄

[AnOrangeCat]

10 hours ago, Sower said:

For many years at my church I went out every Monday evening knocking on doors.
It was the norm and I assumed everybody did similar. I am not an evangelist.

There are so many ways that believers can further the gospel besides taking the gospel to the streets.

Agreed, and some of those methods can be rather subtle and indirect. I've often heard and agreed with the idea that a life lived for God is a great testimony. Like Paul said we're like the body of Christ, each of us having different roles. Some are going to go knocking door to door or make a lot of written material. Someone has to teach, train, and encourage the missionaries, too.

[FreeGrace]

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Just because it isn't CLEAR TO YOU PERSONALLY doesn't mean it isn't clear.  GOD SAYS I believe.   
I set before you Life or Death.  That is what is set before us. 

You want to set before us SOMETHING ELSE, that is up to you.  

I just gave the clear evidence that human beings will be in the LOF and do not cease to exist.  Like all annhilationists, you are confused about the word "death" and what it means.

James defined physical death as "spirit apart from the body".  iow, when your immaterial leaves your material body, you be dead.  So, death is a separation.

Physically, the separation is soul and body.  Spiritually, it is soul separated from God.

That does not mean ceasing to exist, as you presume.

Since both the beast and FP will be IN IN IN the LOF for 1,000 years BEFORE the devil joins them, and Rev 20:10 couldn't be any more clear that all of them (they) will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

If you can make a scholarly argument that proves that the 2 humans who will be cast into the LOF will be treated differently than all who attend the GWT judgment, please do.

The LOF is also called the "second death" becuase even unbelievers will be resurrected.  The difference is that they only get their old carcass back.  So when they will be cast into the LOF, their old carcass will DIE AGAIN.  iow, a second death.

Since the first 2 humans cast into the LOF survive IN IN IN the LOF, there is no reason to presume that none of the rest of the unbelievers will NOT survive the LOF.

 

[FreeGrace]

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Seriously???   MEN?  who are you trying to fool?

 1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

THAT would NOT be the description of a MAN and you don't get to call it a MAN so you can get to eternal torment that way.


NOR do you get to get to it this way?  

11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

You are taking what CLEARLY ARE NOT MEN and saying they are men.  MEN DON'T MAKE FIRE COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN.  

SUPERNATURAL beings do that stuff.  
 

lol.  Of course there are men.  But you are free to believe anything you want to.

However, as to humans doing supernatural things or "stuff" as you say, haven't you ever read about Moses facing Pharoah's magicians?  They matched what Moses did with his staff.  Were they not humans?

Aren't you aware that demon possessed humans CAN do some supernatural "stuff"?

So far, your arguments aren't working.

It seems the main problem is ignoring all of Rev 20.  When v.10 says "they" will be tormented day and night for ever and ever, it can't be referring to organizations, but beings.

But God gives everyone the freedom to think whatever they want.

[FreeGrace]

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

It doesn't matter if it happens in the very LAST NANO SECOND.  IT IS A PART OF THIS AGE, NOT THE NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH.  
Again, ascribing to 'HUMAN BEINGS' POWERS human beings don't possess.

EXCEPT for the 2 witnesses and EVEN THEY COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN.  

and 'they' will be tormented day and night forever and ever
ENDS before the NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH.  AS IT IS OF THIS AGE, not the next.  Don't you think GOD KNOWS what He wrote so as it would all work out?  
EITHER believe the former things are passed away or don't.  

I don't know how day and night forever and ever works but in the end, it is OF THIS AGE.  I will have to ask GOD when I see Him.  But one thing I won't do is take something I might not completely understand and use it to MAKE VOID something I do.  

It's all very clear in Rev 20.  End of the Tribulation, the resurrection of the saved, the MK, then the GWT judgment.  And then the eternal state.

I suppose you read Rev 20 as just allegory?  Or a parable? or what?