What is the opposite of fire and brimstone preaching(Hellfire preaching )? To elaborate, what is a general term for preaching involving "compassionate, mercy, love, forgiveness, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness etc."

[com7fy8]

On 3/14/2023 at 12:57 PM, Jayne said:

Jesus taught and described hell more than heaven.

Well, actually Jesus did teach and describe quite a bit about Himself. Plus, He was actually with people so they could discover Him, find out what could not be told with words, maybe.

[Ogner]

On 3/15/2023 at 2:13 PM, R. Hartono said:

Why is that ?

Because many of them there are wolves in sheep's clothing. 

Covert wolves in sheep's clothing build a very convincing, charismatic false mask for society and often have a great deal of "social proof" in the form of enabling supporters who believe in their facade.

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
1 John 2:18 NIV

[Jayne]

7 hours ago, com7fy8 said:

Well, actually Jesus did teach and describe quite a bit about Himself. Plus, He was actually with people so they could discover Him, find out what could not be told with words, maybe.

Not sure what that has to do with teachings on heaven and hell.

Between the two topics - Jesus taught more about hell than heaven.   That's all I was saying.

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, Slibhin said:

Quick follow up... who is currently in this theoretical hell right now in our place?

I understand your question and it is justified given what the majority of Christianity hold. So let me elaborate.

Te word "hell" never appears in the Bible. It is a concept developed over centuries when the Roman Church locked the Bible away, forbade the laity to read and study it, and mixed pagan beliefs with God's Words. But our early translators, as excellent as they were, were still under the influence of 1,000 years of Roman Teaching, and they used "Hell" as a generic term to fit THREE different words. The three words are;
1. Hades, a PLACE under the earth where the souls of dead men go
2. Gehenna, a place used as a picture of being cast our as useless and burned. It Comes from the Valley of Hinnom on the south side of Jerusalem where the city's refuse is dumped and burned. It is also the place where the Canaanites, and later Israel, made their children go alive into fire to appease the demon-god Molech
3 Tartaroo, mentioned once in the Bible in 2nd Peter 2:4 - a PLACE where God imprisoned fallen angels.

The once we are interested in is Gehenna. Gehenna is uses interchangeably with "The Lake of Fire", "The Second Death", "perdition" and "destruction". The only word that has a Greek equivalent is "Perdition". Greek language authorities tell us that the word does not mean annihilation or the ceasing of senses like physical death. Rather it means that the person experiences a state of exquisite lack of well-being. This born out by the description in Isaiah 66:24 and Mark 9;41-48 where it says that "THEIR worm will not die and THEIR fire will not be quenched". That is, the suffering 1. Internal, 2. Personal, and 3. everlasting.

"Gehenna", or the Second Death is a STATE of a living creature in untold agony. And this STATE of untold agony was experienced by our Lord Jesus TWICE. His soul (His psyche) experienced the Second Death in Gethsemane, and His body some hours later on Golgotha. The Lake of Fire is a STATE of intense personal suffering but our Lord Jesus could cry, "It is finished". Thus, my statement is correct if you use the Lake of Fire. My statement would have difficulties if one changes it to "hell" and then applies the Roman understanding. 

[Alive]

28 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

I understand your question and it is justified given what the majority of Christianity hold. So let me elaborate.

Te word "hell" never appears in the Bible. It is a concept developed over centuries when the Roman Church locked the Bible away, forbade the laity to read and study it, and mixed pagan beliefs with God's Words. But our early translators, as excellent as they were, were still under the influence of 1,000 years of Roman Teaching, and they used "Hell" as a generic term to fit THREE different words. The three words are;
1. Hades, a PLACE under the earth where the souls of dead men go
2. Gehenna, a place used as a picture of being cast our as useless and burned. It Comes from the Valley of Hinnom on the south side of Jerusalem where the city's refuse is dumped and burned. It is also the place where the Canaanites, and later Israel, made their children go alive into fire to appease the demon-god Molech
3 Tartaroo, mentioned once in the Bible in 2nd Peter 2:4 - a PLACE where God imprisoned fallen angels.

The once we are interested in is Gehenna. Gehenna is uses interchangeably with "The Lake of Fire", "The Second Death", "perdition" and "destruction". The only word that has a Greek equivalent is "Perdition". Greek language authorities tell us that the word does not mean annihilation or the ceasing of senses like physical death. Rather it means that the person experiences a state of exquisite lack of well-being. This born out by the description in Isaiah 66:24 and Mark 9;41-48 where it says that "THEIR worm will not die and THEIR fire will not be quenched". That is, the suffering 1. Internal, 2. Personal, and 3. everlasting.

"Gehenna", or the Second Death is a STATE of a living creature in untold agony. And this STATE of untold agony was experienced by our Lord Jesus TWICE. His soul (His psyche) experienced the Second Death in Gethsemane, and His body some hours later on Golgotha. The Lake of Fire is a STATE of intense personal suffering but our Lord Jesus could cry, "It is finished". Thus, my statement is correct if you use the Lake of Fire. My statement would have difficulties if one changes it to "hell" and then applies the Roman understanding. 

You were doing ok for a while there...

I think hell is not a literal place, but rather an illustration of death and destruction and separation from God.

There will indeed be suffering for every unredeemed soul. For certain at the judgement day and possible some after in relative fashion.

We must always remember context. Understand how the Jews related to Gehenna, Sheol, etc. Jesus was speaking to those Jews.

Gehenna--a dump where refuse and dead babies were burned.

Sheol--the grave.

Hades---now there is one to study on.

Eternal punishment can mean a 'perishing' that has no end. Once done its done. Forever separated from God and any inheritance of Christ that the Father offered.

Eternal physical and mental torture? This is not the character of the God I have come to know.

Yup---words are important and especially those words spoken by Jesus Himself. Do you agree.

Look at the many times that word for 'perish' is used. That word has meaning and the Holy Spirit chose to use it.

I only ask that you consider those verses and then ask the Lord, if what much of what christendom has taught for many years, may be false.

There are simply far more scriptures that deal with ultimate fate that mention a ceasing to exist/destruction, than those that seem to say the ultimate fate of the unredeemed are tortured for eternity.

Rightly dividing the word. I have only attempted to do this.

Imagine for a moment a person burning in flames for one full minute.

Now imagine for an entire 10 full minutes.

Imagine what would be happening within the mind of that person and how they would deal with that torment.

Now imagine for a moment that same individual experiencing said pain for a full 30 days without respite.

What state would that person be in after such time.

A complete physical and psychic shut down?

This is what would happen in some fashion, if it were possible, to keep a person alive and conscious under that kind of torment/pain for even 30 days.

Considering this--and eternity---no never mind--how about 10 years. A mere blip in eternity.

Can you picture a loving God, who is indeed a God of justice--somehow keeping that individual alive and conscious with an intact nervous system in order for that torment to continue. To continue on and on without ceasing?

Try to imagine these things and assign this to my God and yours. The Lord Jesus Christ who suffered and died for you and me and indeed the world.

Do you know what the word 'Logos' means? One aspect of that word and as it pertains to Christ the Son of God can be considered and is indeed...the following. The 'Word' is the rational and reasonable reason for all things. He is and embodies all of what the Father means and expresses.

Does this eternal torture seem reasonable? Keep in mind that we were made in His image with the same reasonable faculties--although in finite and shadowy terms.

Many Christians don't believe the Bible teaches that hell is a place of eternal torture.

I am one of these. There is no way that the God I have come to know would torture for eternity a being who did not ask to be born into a sinful race.

There is eternal Life 'In Christ' and there is a final 'death'. A perishing. Hell or Gehenna was  very well understood as a trash heap outside the gates of Jerusalem where the smoke of dead carcasses and refuse rises continually.

I suggest that you set your heart to study this and in the meantime, be at peace. Our God--your God--is a being of justice not injustice.

Would any man that is not insane consign another to eternal torture? Of course not. How then could a loving and just God do that?

The popular doctrine of hell and eternal torture is a doctrine of devils designed to drive men from God.

I suggest to anyone to simply ask God, if He is going to torture people endlessly.

Does the Spirit in you think that would be justice?

There is only one kind of eternal life and that is 'Christ Life'. Those outside of Christ perish in final death. At the end, the last enemy is done away with and that enemy is death itself.

I have done a thorough word study for folks, but with today's resources, its easy to search all of the places.

I suspect that when the unsaved face the judgement seat and realize what they have lost, there will be a kind of suffering of being that is quite severe. The psychic blow will be worse than any can imagine.

But then destruction—a perishing.

 

Here is a sampling.

Perish used 22 times in the NT

Mounce Greek Dictionary (Greek Entry)

GK G660 | S G622   ἀπόλλυμι   apollymi   90x  

to destroy utterly; to kill, Mt. 2:13; to bring to nought, make void, 1 Cor. 1:19; to lose, be deprived of, Mt. 10:42; to be destroyed, perish, Mt. 9:17; to be put to death, to die, Mt. 26:52; to be lost, to stray, Mt. 10:6 → destroy; lose; perish.

Matt. 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Matt. 8:25 Then His disciples came to Him and awoke Him, saying, “Lord, save us! We are perishing!”

Matt. 8:32   And He said to them, “Go.” So when they had come out, they went into the herd of swine. And suddenly the whole herd of swine ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and perished in the water.

Matt. 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.

Matt. 26:52   But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Mark 4:38 But He was in the stern, asleep on a pillow. And they awoke Him and said to Him, “Teacher, do You not care that we are perishing?”

Luke 8:24 And they came to Him and awoke Him, saying, “Master, Master, we are perishing!”

Then He arose and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water. And they ceased, and there was a calm.

Luke 11:51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

Luke 13:5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must journey today, tomorrow, and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem.

Luke 15:17   “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

John 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 6:27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

John 11:50 nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish.”

Acts 5:37 After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census, and drew away many people after him. He also perished, and all who obeyed him were dispersed.

Acts 8:20   But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!

Acts 13:41 “Behold, you despisers,

Marvel and perish!

For I work a work in your days,

A work which you will by no means believe,

Though one were to declare it to you.’ ”

Rom. 2:12   For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law

1Cor. 1:18   For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1Cor. 8:11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

1Cor. 15:18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

2Cor. 2:15 For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing.

2Cor. 4:3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,

2Cor. 4:16   Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.

Col. 2:22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?

2Th. 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Heb. 1:11 They will perish, but You remain;

And they will all grow old like a garment;

Heb. 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.

James 1:11 For no sooner has the sun risen with a burning heat than it withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beautiful appearance perishes. So the rich man also will fade away in his pursuits.

1Pet. 1:7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

2Pet. 2:12   But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,

2Pet. 3:6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.

2Pet. 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Jude 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

Destroy used 36 times in the NT.

Thayer (Greek Entry)

2647. καταλύω; kataluō; future katalusō; 1 aorist katelusa; 1 aorist passive kateluthēn; 1 future passive 3 person singular kataluthēsetai; to dissolve, disunite (see, III. 4); a. (what has been joined together) equivalent to to destroy, demolish: lithous (A.V. throw down),

Matt. 2:13   Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word; for Herod will seek the young Child to destroy Him.”

Matt. 5:17   “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Matt. 6:19   “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;

Matt. 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matt. 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out and plotted against Him, how they might destroy Him.

Matt. 21:41   They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

Matt. 26:61 and said, “This fellow said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and to build it in three days.’ ”

Matt. 27:20   But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitudes that they should ask for Barabbas and destroy Jesus.

Matt. 27:40 and saying, “You who destroy the temple and build it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, come down from the cross.”

Mark 1:24 saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!”

Mark 3:6 Then the Pharisees went out and immediately plotted with the Herodians against Him, how they might destroy Him.

Mark 9:22 And often he has thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.”

Mark 11:18   And the scribes and chief priests heard it and sought how they might destroy Him; for they feared Him, because all the people were astonished at His teaching.

Mark 12:9   “Therefore what will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vinedressers, and give the vineyard to others.

Mark 14:58 “We heard Him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.’ ”

Mark 15:29   And those who passed by blasphemed Him, wagging their heads and saying, “Aha! You who destroy the temple and build it in three days,

Luke 4:34 saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!”

Luke 6:9 Then Jesus said to them, “I will ask you one thing: Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy?”

Luke 9:56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.

Luke 19:47   And He was teaching daily in the temple. But the chief priests, the scribes, and the leaders of the people sought to destroy Him,

Luke 20:16 He will come and destroy those vinedressers and give the vineyard to others.”

And when they heard it they said, “Certainly not!”

John 2:19   Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

John 10:10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

Acts 6:14 for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs which Moses delivered to us.”

Rom. 14:15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died.

Rom. 14:20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense.

1Cor. 1:19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,

And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

1Cor. 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

1Cor. 6:13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

Gal. 1:13   For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it.

Gal. 1:23 But they were hearing only, “He who formerly persecuted us now preaches the faith which he once tried to destroy.”

2Th. 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Heb. 2:14   Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

James 4:12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another?

1John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

Rev. 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,

And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,

And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,

And those who fear Your name, small and great,

And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

[Marathoner]

You didn't ask that question of me, @Slibhin, but I'll answer and say, "No one is."

The concept of hell as introduced and reinforced by the Roman Catholic Church is a pagan invention. 

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Marathoner said:

You didn't ask that question of me, @Slibhin, but I'll answer and say, "No one is."

The concept of hell as introduced and reinforced by the Roman Catholic Church is a pagan invention. 

It was also informed by many other notions of several different people groups. Many had similar ideas of a final place of punishment, but Jesus was not teaching those things.

It may be helpful to also mention that 'fire' in scripture is often used in two ways--for cleansing and/or destruction. This is what fire does.

[com7fy8]

19 hours ago, Jayne said:

Not sure what that has to do with teachings on heaven and hell.

Between the two topics - Jesus taught more about hell than heaven.   That's all I was saying.

And what I'm getting at is that Jesus Himself is included in all that Heaven is. And so, He was talking about what is mainly true about Heaven, by talking about Himself. Plus, by being with us, He was presenting part of the main good of how Heaven is, by being here so ones could discover Him and how He is. And being with Jesus, I would say, can tell people more about Heaven, than even words of Jesus could. Demonstration is good teaching 

[Vine Abider]

21 hours ago, Jayne said:

Not sure what that has to do with teachings on heaven and hell.

Between the two topics - Jesus taught more about hell than heaven.   That's all I was saying.

Jesus taught more about hell than heaven? I've heard that before, but have not done a word study/count to see for myself, but it could possibly be the case. However, could we say that Jesus taught more about the kingdom than either heaven or hell?

I ask because much of Christendom seems to be focused more on going to heaven as a final destiny, rather than on the kingdom/new Jerusalem described in the apostles writings.

And in the apostles' writings, the focus is clearly on the "the grace being brought to you in the revealing of Christ Jesus" (I Peter 1:13) rather on some negative place ("hell" or "lake of fire" etc.).

[Vine Abider]

BTW - are there two threads going on now with basically the same topic & started by the same OP? (or am I just seeing double?)