What does it take 'to Believe'?

[DeighAnn]

25 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Go for it Sis.    Just don't forget to pm me if you don't see me join you- I may not see it but I'll be there!🥰

I might need to wait a couple days.  It's like the grocery store lines.  No one in them then everyone up front all at once.  So, as soon as the lines die down....

But, if you make one before I do, please let me know and I'll  on over

[kwikphilly]

17 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

OK, here is my problem.  IF the Holy Spirit touching us gave us TRUTH, we would all be in agreement.  No debates, everyone knows the same thing.

Can the Holy Spirit 'touch' or give anything to anyone who has not come to faith?

And if the middle east dreams are really happening THAT would be really exciting as to our place in 'the season' and I have no problem with my own personal lack of understanding everything, sometimes I just have to take it on faith it isn't mine to know right now...maybe later. 

BUT I believe that the visions and dreams CAN be the basis of becoming a true believer but to become a soldier you have to have His wisdom and knowledge

BUT those don't really get along with each other very well. WOW, I am just all over the place.  Don't think I have had that many conflicts in such a short time in awhile.  You must have hit a nerve.  THANK YOU.  For sure going to get coffee
 

Maybe just Receive this- you Know that Jesus is the Way,the Truth & the Life- He Knocks( by the Power of Holy Spirit).    The Truth Reveals a Glimpse of Himself( to the Muslim,unaware let's say).... So He's Calling,right? The TRUTH is Calling

The muslim( or whoever)hears and if he's willing( repentant)Convicted) he answers( Received) and then he's Given a Measure of Faith .   To feed and become that soldier....

Hmmm,maybe I'm all over the place too,lol.   Too much coffee for me!

[other one]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

OK, here is my problem.  IF the Holy Spirit touching us gave us TRUTH, we would all be in agreement.  No debates, everyone knows the same thing.

Can the Holy Spirit 'touch' or give anything to anyone who has not come to faith?

And if the middle east dreams are really happening THAT would be really exciting as to our place in 'the season' and I have no problem with my own personal lack of understanding everything, sometimes I just have to take it on faith it isn't mine to know right now...maybe later. 

BUT I believe that the visions and dreams CAN be the basis of becoming a true believer but to become a soldier you have to have His wisdom and knowledge

BUT those don't really get along with each other very well. WOW, I am just all over the place.  Don't think I have had that many conflicts in such a short time in awhile.  You must have hit a nerve.  THANK YOU.  For sure going to get coffee
 

LoL,,,,    you're speaking of half my life.

My personal experienced on the subject of what to believe and what not, comes from my first 18 years of life.   I was spiritually raised in the Church of Christ on Johnston Street in Ada Oklahoma for my first 17 years.    Then something happened in my Junior year of High School that made me question what I had been taught those 17 years....  So at 17 I stopped reading the Sunday School book and started reading my Bible.    And by age 18 found that I did not see a lot of the things I'd been taught in the Bible and a whole lot of things in the Bible that I had not been taught.

So at age 18 I decdied I was just upset with God and took a 14 month break away from him.   It' s ok for he's promised to let it go and forget about it.

Then i spent several years looking for what I considered the true church...  Wherever I went I saw small differences but no matter where I attended there were alwsays things they wanted to stress and other things they wanted to ignore and it was really a strain so I decide I'd be a stand alone christian.  It did work for quite a while.

Then after my wife and i got married, I bought a book about the chariots of the gods that really struck an interest so I drifted my reading into old history, UFOs and the such which ended up in doing an in depth study of the Occult itself.   Being with Xerox now for several years I found I had access to research libraries in colleges that really open one up to some really evil things.   ultimately I think I wanted to know why someone with the status of Lucifer would have the audacity of standing in the face of what I later learned was the Father.   Never having any thought of joining the dark side just understanding it.

I knew of Jesus and thought I was protected and safe from it all, but didn't realize that while walking among the spiritual battle going on across this world, I truly had no authority or power whatsoever.    The dark ones evidentially thought i was checking them out to join with them so they really opened up to me.   God must have chucked a time or two at least during those ten years.

So came the night where the dark ones wanted me to officially join them and the requests they made for giving me pretty much everything I could ever want came late at night standing all wet in the shower.   

That touch was not simple nor was it light for me.   One of those do you understand what you are doing and the danger you are in kind of things.  Terrified doesn't even begin to describe my feeling at that moment.

Then I heard a vioce,  very loud and just said, "NO, he's mine and you can't have him."

With those words came a knowledge of who he is and what I was....   literally nothing without him.   At that moment I placed myself in his hands and he truly became my Lord  (forever)

I can't relate this to other people who are not so foolish as I was to do that study, it still boils down to some of us need the Spirit to touch us to let us know he's real.  And I do believe that's what it's all about.

Jesus knocks at the door and we open it...   but it's what happens after we open that door that sets us in being believers.    And with really dumb people like me beyond believers quickly into the realm of knowers.  It takes some people years to transition from believers to knowers for that comes with experiences with the Spirit. 

I don't know if you can relate any of this to your own walk with him.  I do know that our journey is not all the same.   Maybe what we see and learn on the way is why there are so many differences in our ideas of what it's all about.  And in the end what it's all about is a personal relationship with the Lord.

[DeighAnn]

3 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Maybe just Receive this- you Know that Jesus is the Way,the Truth & the Life- He Knocks( by the Power of Holy Spirit).    The Truth Reveals a Glimpse of Himself( to the Muslim,unaware let's say).... So He's Calling,right? The TRUTH is Calling

The muslim( or whoever)hears and if he's willing( repentant)Convicted) he answers( Received) and then he's Given a Measure of Faith .   To feed and become that soldier....

Hmmm,maybe I'm all over the place too,lol.   Too much coffee for me!

Hey, I was perfectly following until you said you were all over the place.  I HATE to say this with the 'flattering lips' and all, but none the less feel it is important

for people wired like me who's 'gifts' don't fall on the evangelical side at all, hearing them from this point of view, is really helpful, just pure faith in the righteousness of God, no Scripture needed.  A hard place for me to find comfort when discussing what is going on with others.  I really might need the day off, I can't seem to accurately get any of my thoughts transferred to the page.  MOVING ON,

I believe you are correct, and mine is not to reason why.  

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:" Joel 2:28 KJV

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" Acts 2:17 KJV

See... had to go find Scripture.  BUT proves my point, no qualifications....
 

[kwikphilly]

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Hey, I was perfectly following until you said you were all over the place.  I HATE to say this with the 'flattering lips' and all, but none the less feel it is important

for people wired like me who's 'gifts' don't fall on the evangelical side at all, hearing them from this point of view, is really helpful, just pure faith in the righteousness of God, no Scripture needed.  A hard place for me to find comfort when discussing what is going on with others.  I really might need the day off, I can't seem to accurately get any of my thoughts transferred to the page.  MOVING ON,

I believe you are correct, and mine is not to reason why.  

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:" Joel 2:28 KJV

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" Acts 2:17 KJV

See... had to go find Scripture.  BUT proves my point, no qualifications....
 

Exactly the point D.   

I'm having difficulty today as well,staying on the page,so to speak.     I was on the right path, following God's Lead & then POW,distracted! So thats why I zipped my lips abruptly and quit right there---- I knew you'd Receive it though and Praise the Lord,He's So Good.....

I don't like to keep talking after I find myself walking off course... Better to just stop talking,surely the point was made and you confirmed that with Scripture

Ever go to church and hear a Rhema Word,the Preacher is on fire and then - it is Finished! But the preacher keeps going anyway and you start saying to yourself" I think Holy Spirit has left the building,where's the Amen and see ya next Sunday?"lol

[Alive]

1 hour ago, other one said:

Muslims in the Middle East are becoming believers through visions they are having.  They have knowledge of Jesus through their teachings, but the visions are showing them who Jesus really is.   They don't possess the real truth about him but are receiving it directly from the Holy Spirit.

So to answer your question (and I can't believe I just saw this thread)  I would say that what it takes to believe is a simple touch of the Holy Spirit.

That's been my experience throughout my life both within myself and watching and speaking to others.

This was my experience in a very real way--the Lord spoke to me, a day or two after I asked God--whoever He was to let me know what the truth was. Jesus intervened and answered and thus saved me.

My testimony:

I am the way, the truth and the life and none can come to the Father but by me.

That is the first scripture I heard resound in my heart. I was 18 years old and a seeker. I was studying eastern religions and such things and preparing to leave to live in an Ashram in California with a guy named Paramahansa Yokananda—an Indian mystic. One day while standing outside waiting for a ride, I found myself looking up to heaven and crying out--"God, whoever you are, I want to be aligned with truth".

A couple minutes later a guy I knew from our HS came walking down the sidewalk toward me. He invited me over the next night to play guitars and sing songs. I did to find out it was a bible study--a bunch of Jesus Freaks. LOL

John was my friend's name--he read the above scripture and I heard the Lord speak to me as audible and clear as can be--"I am the Truth". He did not say, one of the truths.

He granted me all kinds of repentance and a 100 degree about face was immediate.

A true change of Life is what I learned is a very real experience and thus He has continued to deal with me--as LOrd, brother and friend.

[Alive]

18 minutes ago, other one said:

LoL,,,,    you're speaking of half my life.

My personal experienced on the subject of what to believe and what not, comes from my first 18 years of life.   I was spiritually raised in the Church of Christ on Johnston Street in Ada Oklahoma for my first 17 years.    Then something happened in my Junior year of High School that made me question what I had been taught those 17 years....  So at 17 I stopped reading the Sunday School book and started reading my Bible.    And by age 18 found that I did not see a lot of the things I'd been taught in the Bible and a whole lot of things in the Bible that I had not been taught.

So at age 18 I decdied I was just upset with God and took a 14 month break away from him.   It' s ok for he's promised to let it go and forget about it.

Then i spent several years looking for what I considered the true church...  Wherever I went I saw small differences but no matter where I attended there were alwsays things they wanted to stress and other things they wanted to ignore and it was really a strain so I decide I'd be a stand alone christian.  It did work for quite a while.

Then after my wife and i got married, I bought a book about the chariots of the gods that really struck an interest so I drifted my reading into old history, UFOs and the such which ended up in doing an in depth study of the Occult itself.   Being with Xerox now for several years I found I had access to research libraries in colleges that really open one up to some really evil things.   ultimately I think I wanted to know why someone with the status of Lucifer would have the audacity of standing in the face of what I later learned was the Father.   Never having any thought of joining the dark side just understanding it.

I knew of Jesus and thought I was protected and safe from it all, but didn't realize that while walking among the spiritual battle going on across this world, I truly had no authority or power whatsoever.    The dark ones evidentially thought i was checking them out to join with them so they really opened up to me.   God must have chucked a time or two at least during those ten years.

So came the night where the dark ones wanted me to officially join them and the requests they made for giving me pretty much everything I could ever want came late at night standing all wet in the shower.   

That touch was not simple nor was it light for me.   One of those do you understand what you are doing and the danger you are in kind of things.  Terrified doesn't even begin to describe my feeling at that moment.

Then I heard a vioce,  very loud and just said, "NO, he's mine and you can't have him."

With those words came a knowledge of who he is and what I was....   literally nothing without him.   At that moment I placed myself in his hands and he truly became my Lord  (forever)

I can't relate this to other people who are not so foolish as I was to do that study, it still boils down to some of us need the Spirit to touch us to let us know he's real.  And I do believe that's what it's all about.

Jesus knocks at the door and we open it...   but it's what happens after we open that door that sets us in being believers.    And with really dumb people like me beyond believers quickly into the realm of knowers.  It takes some people years to transition from believers to knowers for that comes with experiences with the Spirit. 

I don't know if you can relate any of this to your own walk with him.  I do know that our journey is not all the same.   Maybe what we see and learn on the way is why there are so many differences in our ideas of what it's all about.  And in the end what it's all about is a personal relationship with the Lord.

I believe and can relate to what you have said here, but in different ways. The Lord and His ways of dealing with His own are diverse--He meets us where we are and our experiences prepare us for what follows.

My testimony from when a young pastor:

One of the early lessons the Lord taught me was the reality of demon possession. It was one of those very remarkable experiences. He told me just what was going to happen ahead of time when visiting a woman that a member asked me to visit.

I was parked outside the apartment and I asked the Lord to guide me, as was my practice. He said, "go inside and I am going to teach you something".

I went inside and I immediately sensed the 'wrongness'. I began to speak with her. She tried to seduce me in a very unpleasant manner. The Lord then told me "she is going to go into the kitchen, get a knife and come out to try to kill you". Ok says I.  A moment later she went into the kitchen and I could hear the rattling of utensils in a drawer. She came out and was literally screaming in a very strange and abnormal voice, with raised butcher knife screamed 'I am going to kill you'. I rebuked the spirit and she immediately laid down and went to sleep.

The Lord told me He was done and it was time to leave.

[DeighAnn]

5 minutes ago, other one said:

LoL,,,,    you're speaking of half my life.

My personal experienced on the subject of what to believe and what not, comes from my first 18 years of life.   I was spiritually raised in the Church of Christ on Johnston Street in Ada Oklahoma for my first 17 years.    Then something happened in my Junior year of High School that made me question what I had been taught those 17 years....  So at 17 I stopped reading the Sunday School book and started reading my Bible.    And by age 18 found that I did not see a lot of the things I'd been taught in the Bible and a whole lot of things in the Bible that I had not been taught.

So at age 18 I decdied I was just upset with God and took a 14 month break away from him.   It' s ok for he's promised to let it go and forget about it.

Then i spent several years looking for what I considered the true church...  Wherever I went I saw small differences but no matter where I attended there were alwsays things they wanted to stress and other things they wanted to ignore and it was really a strain so I decide I'd be a stand alone christian.  It did work for quite a while.

Then after my wife and i got married, I bought a book about the chariots of the gods that really struck an interest so I drifted my reading into old history, UFOs and the such which ended up in doing an in depth study of the Occult itself.   Being with Xerox now for several years I found I had access to research libraries in colleges that really open one up to some really evil things.   ultimately I think I wanted to know why someone with the status of Lucifer would have the audacity of standing in the face of what I later learned was the Father.   Never having any thought of joining the dark side just understanding it.

I knew of Jesus and thought I was protected and safe from it all, but didn't realize that while walking among the spiritual battle going on across this world, I truly had no authority or power whatsoever.    The dark ones evidentially thought i was checking them out to join with them so they really opened up to me.   God must have chucked a time or two at least during those ten years.

So came the night where the dark ones wanted me to officially join them and the requests they made for giving me pretty much everything I could ever want came late at night standing all wet in the shower.   

That touch was not simple nor was it light for me.   One of those do you understand what you are doing and the danger you are in kind of things.  Terrified doesn't even begin to describe my feeling at that moment.

Then I heard a vioce,  very loud and just said, "NO, he's mine and you can't have him."

With those words came a knowledge of who he is and what I was....   literally nothing without him.   At that moment I placed myself in his hands and he truly became my Lord  (forever)

I can't relate this to other people who are not so foolish as I was to do that study, it still boils down to some of us need the Spirit to touch us to let us know he's real.  And I do believe that's what it's all about.

Jesus knocks at the door and we open it...   but it's what happens after we open that door that sets us in being believers.    And with really dumb people like me beyond believers quickly into the realm of knowers.  It takes some people years to transition from believers to knowers for that comes with experiences with the Spirit. 

I don't know if you can relate any of this to your own walk with him.  I do know that our journey is not all the same.   Maybe what we see and learn on the way is why there are so many differences in our ideas of what it's all about.  And in the end what it's all about is a personal relationship with the Lord.

Not my walk, but a close family member, at least the part of examining the other side confident in where they stood in protection, but not understanding the door that gets opened, so I can relate to it so much that I almost skipped a paragraph. Any more detail and I was gone.  That is a door I give a wide berth. 

I believe we are placed on this battlefield as it is a proving ground where God says, I step back and allow you total freedom to be who you really are.  Come the end, WE will be KNOWN and He will know exactly WHO HE IS to us, His importance to life, our very being and it will be without question or excuse.  Also, not based on if you stayed or strayed, but where your heart is.  I am really having a day.  Talk about bi polar from confusion to clarity back to confusion, up then down....

Thank you for sharing, I am trying to grow in areas outside of my comfort zone...and this truly helps.  

I keep telling myself, MANY membered body, with many different callings, with many different gifts given = don't judge another mans servant, work on your own mote

while tempering it with... as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

I personally have never heard the voice but have felt the workings.  When it came time for me to 'do it His way', I dedicated myself to that single pursuit. I read and read and read and read and I got to the point I felt like I was FIGHTING to get into the kingdom of God because I had taken in every word some many times over and I wasn't really coming to any understanding. But I kept saying GOD PROMISES, and I kept praying, and pushing on what I am sure is well past what most people would do.  And then in a moment that lasted for a second or 3 hours, they got arranged in my head.  You KNOW it a miracle, but at the same time you think, was it really?

Then it was like EVERYTHING started to open up.  Verses I had read 20 times and saw nothing of importance suddenly would be made so plainly obvious I would wonder how it was possible to not have seen it before.  Left and right every day truth and understanding and then it was like LIVING those words, almost like BEING there.  I REALLY love the OT.  

Then it stopped.  Put in more time.  Say more prayers.  Concentrate harder.  Nothing.  

How I came to be here.  Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

I don't know what that means to anyone else, but I know what it means to me.  It was time for 'Iron sharpens iron', and I needed to be sharpened and only one way to do that, a challenge.  Put your money where your mouth is. 

Didn't take long until I was BACK in the zone.  HOW SCARY it was.  I couldn't hardly open a post without having a heart attack wondering, what will I be told is wrong this time.  Talk about a learning curve.  But it didn't take long to realize, GODS WORDS will ALWAYS take down and render null and void anything and everything that isn't.  No matter how twisted it has gotten.  So, until I quit receiving new truths, here I will stay.  Wow, I am having a day.  I sure hope this doesn't come off an anything other than what it is, I AM SO THANKFUL TO GOD for ALL HE GIVES because without His giving, I would have nothing.  NOT SAYING I have not had to RUN THE RACE, not saying HE HAD DONE IT ALL FOR ME, not saying I haven't had to STUDY, to seek, TO WORK FOR IT because I have.  DOES the desire to do so come from Him? I don't know and I don't care, I just love it.  Better stop.  Again, thank you for sharing with me, I appreciate the help and the company in my walk. 

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

I believe and can relate to what you have said here, but in different ways. The Lord and His ways of dealing with His own are diverse--He meets us where we are and our experiences prepare us for what follows.

My testimony from when a young pastor:

One of the early lessons the Lord taught me was the reality of demon possession. It was one of those very remarkable experiences. He told me just what was going to happen ahead of time when visiting a woman that a member asked me to visit.

I was parked outside the apartment and I asked the Lord to guide me, as was my practice. He said, "go inside and I am going to teach you something".

I went inside and I immediately sensed the 'wrongness'. I began to speak with her. She tried to seduce me in a very unpleasant manner. The Lord then told me "she is going to go into the kitchen, get a knife and come out to try to kill you". Ok says I.  A moment later she went into the kitchen and I could hear the rattling of utensils in a drawer. She came out and was literally screaming in a very strange and abnormal voice, with raised butcher knife screamed 'I am going to kill you'. I rebuked the spirit and she immediately laid down and went to sleep.

The Lord told me He was done and it was time to leave.

I want to say SOMETHING but all that keeps coming to mind is HOLY MOLY.  I am pretty quick to rebuke evil spirits and to anoint house and home but I have never gotten past that point. HOLY MOLY.  

[Alive]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

I want to say SOMETHING but all that keeps coming to mind is HOLY MOLY.  I am pretty quick to rebuke evil spirits and to anoint house and home but I have never gotten past that point. HOLY MOLY.  

Sister the point of that exercise and a handful of others that the Lord took me through was essentially, "this stuff is real and no joke--pay attention"

As with each of us, we are prepared for different things down the line.

One of the things the Lord did there was to exercise me to be able to 'sense wrongness'.

That experience has come in handy many times over the years. I was around 24-25 at the time.

These things are also 'faith builders' and in those dark moments of doubt we are all subject to, He reminds us and there by are sustained. One thing that I have learned is that the Lord is faithful to care for His own and there is no such thing as coincidence.

The Good Shepherd is constant....think about that. Constant.