Enoch, Elija, & Jesus

[com7fy8]

7 hours ago, Kaio-Ken said:

@com7fy8 The weird thing is we are called to be greater than elijah and enoch, because we are to be like christ. but i find it extremely difficult to even achieve what elijah and enoch did. Especially worse, we are given more instruction than them.

 

With God it is possible for us to become how He wants us to be. This will not be measured by physical miracles, I would say, but by how our Heavenly Father is changing our character.

And we grow with one another, as members of Christ together. I mean, no one gets oneself to become super-great, all by oneself. But God has us together helping one another - - - by prayer, the word of God, and example.

7 hours ago, Kaio-Ken said:

 

May sound crazy, but i feel modern day religion is the road block, the modern day church is stripped of spirituality thus we become blind, deaf, and numb to entire realm. The modern christian has no discernment, therefore we are unaware to spiritual things. If you disagree with me on that one, then I have to ask what do you think discernment is?

God is now succeeding with His children > Hebrews 12:4-14 > so, we don't need to evaluate by how worldly church culture people are failing! It takes discernment to perceive and receive how God is now succeeding.

My offering is that if we submit to God in His peace ruling us, He will have us discovering who else is obeying Him and maturing in this peace > Colossians 3:15 > Philippians 4:6-7.

[Marilyn C]

On 4/2/2023 at 8:17 PM, Kaio-Ken said:

Enoch was taken by the lord. (Could mean put to death or raptured)

Elijah for sure ascended into heaven.

Jesus of course ascended into heaven.

 

Do you think another person could please God so much to allow him to do this? These three figures mean allot to me, one being God himself, but the other two shows me a potential in me to please God. Imagine making God so happy he takes you up. 

 

Im just a few head aches away from cracking this mystery... me -> 

 

edit:

scriptures says 

New question where did enoch and elijah go? 

Enoch is a type of the Body of Christ being caught away before God`s judgment.

Elijah and Moses will be the 2 witnesses to Israel of Christ`s death, resurrection and ascension. (Luke 9: 30 & 31,  24: 2 - 6,  Acts 1: 9 & 10)

These 3 men are now in the General Assembly. (Heb. 12: 23 `just men`)

[JohnD]

Lively discussion.

John 3:13 (KJV)
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Two possible interpretations:

A) 2 Corinthians 5:8 proves this is not a retrospective parenthetic statement, but one of the omnipresence of Jesus.

B) Or, it is a retrospective parenthetic statement which corroborates with 2 Corinthians 5:8 to mean no human being has bodily ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is now in heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Just for good measure...

Ephesians 4:8–10 (KJV)
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

2 Corinthians 5:8 and interpretation B) assure us that no human being other than Christ Jesus is bodily raised from the dead and in heaven until the end (Revelation 20:5 / Revelation 20:11-15) ← the general resurrection at the end of this age.

The so-called "rapture" (Revelation 3:10 / Daniel 12:12 / 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) appears to be the dividing of spirit and body without actually dying to be delivered from God's wrath / judgment (the judgment and wrath of God was poured out on Yeshua Jesus for all who believe in him). "Rapture" does not appear in the Bible except in the Latin Vulgate (rapturo is the Latin for the passage in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 which refers to the return of Christ to Earth at the end of this age... as does 1 Corinthians 15:51-55).

Make no mistake, there will be a deliverance / a taking out of God's people before his wrath / judgment the same way Noah and his family were delivered from the flood, the same way the Jews were passed over by the death angel, and through the Red Sea on dry ground... etc. Reflected in the four cups of Passover Seder (Exodus 6:6-7):

1. "I will bring out,"

2. "I will deliver,"

3. "I will redeem,"

4. "I will take."

Exodus 6:6–7 (KJV)
6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:
7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

The more accurate description of what is traditionally called the rapture is the taking out (or deliverance). 

Enoch and Elijah are the best prophetic examples of this taking out.

But where did they go?

Since no one (at least up until Jesus' day) ascended into heaven... (John 3:13)

And in what state?

Bodily or out of body...

The Apostle Paul wrote of the experience (whether his or not) as being unable to distinguish being in the body or out of the body (2 Corinthians 12:2-4). But remember, even if out of body, this was post Cross of Christ. Ephesians 4:8-10 speaks of the captives up to that point who were the previous residents of Abraham's Bosom in Sheol (Luke 16:19-31). 

It's a safe interpretation that Enoch and Elijah were translated into Abraham's Bosom as spirits.

Jesus is "alive forever and ever" in his resurrection. This was not said about Enoch or Elijah in scripture. Enoch simply vanished and Elijah was taken up into the sky and out of view (clouds). There is also a verse that mentions predecessors in Christ as a cloud of witnesses. Could be literal clouds could be prophetic reference to those predecessors... 

 

[BibleStudent100]

On 4/2/2023 at 3:17 AM, Kaio-Ken said:

Enoch was taken by the lord. (Could mean put to death or raptured)

Elijah for sure ascended into heaven.

Regarding Enoch, we know he was a prophet of God and he foretold God’s coming with His holy myriads to execute judgment against the ungodly. Likely persecution was brought against him because of his prophesying. But when God “took him,” could that not mean that God just cut short his life at age 365 years and was “transferred so as not to see death,” or experience the pangs of death?

 

Regarding Elijah, when he ascended into the windstorm, did he die?  Does not the Bible indicate that Elijah was geographically transported to another location as he was still alive and active as a prophet some years later: 2 Chronicles, 21:12-15?