Who is the Man Child in Revelation 12?

[R. Hartono]

9 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Didn't you ask when Christians are caught up to the throne? That verse in Rev 3:21 shows Christians will be seated with Christ there: "To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne."

And @Marilyn C @Marathoner @Selah

Here's where I think the mystery of the new covenant comes to full fruition, and what many of us have a hard time seeing:  That is, the union of Christ IN us now!  So His victories are our victories.  As it says in 1 Cor 6:17, "He that is joined to the Lord are one spirit with Him!" United with Him in death; united with Him in resurrection;  United with Him in life!  All things are to us (the church) as He promises over and over, His "boots on the ground."

If we see that now His operation is so much about doing it THROUGH US, then thinking the man-child is Him doing this conquering through US is much easier to see.

 

That promise of Jesus that saints Will be allowed to sit at His Throne still not yet happen. But what John Saw about the manchild Jesus taken to Throne has happened. Thats what Revelation 12 about. It explains manchild in the past and future.

Edited April 15, 2023 by R. Hartono

[Marilyn C]

23 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Michael is the deputy enforcer. Once man has regained his rightful place, as God purposed him, the devil will have no place.  Therefore Michael is executing the dominion the overcomers exercise in Christ.

So....are you `keeping the commandments of God? `  (Rev. 12: 17)

[Vine Abider]

29 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

The “accuser” is Satan.  
“them” are the overcomers
“they” are the overcomers—the Elect, who will be delivered up and give testimony 

Where does it say that “the man child is the overcomers”?  I don’t see that written anywhere,@Vine Abider.  

s e l a h

Why did war break out in heaven in verse 7?  Someone appeared in heaven . . . the man-child. And immediately the devil was cast down.  They, the overcomers were responsible.  This is all one scenario. Christ is not mentioned specifically, but is present in His overcomers.  The verses in this chapter all flow with one big scene - the expulsion of the usurper by man retaking his God given place (which Christ has won for us, and has imparted it to born-again children. The overcomers stand upon His victory - "They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb"). 

[Vine Abider]

19 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

That promise of Jesus that saints Will be allowed to sit at His Throne still not yet happen. But what John Saw about the manchild Jesus taken to Throne has happened. Thats what Revelation 12 about. It explains manchild in the past and future.

Revelation is a forward looking book as evidenced by Rev 1:1 and 4:1.

[Vine Abider]

18 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

So....are you `keeping the commandments of God? `  (Rev. 12: 17)

"Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus."

This seems to be all God's people, both those of the old and new covenants. (However, the commands in the NT are also there, and much simpler - that is loving God & others . . .)

[Marilyn C]

4 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

"Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus."

This seems to be all God's people, both those of the old and new covenants. (However, the commands in the NT are also there, and much simpler - that is loving God & others . . .)

Hi VA,

1. Where is the scripture for your claim?

`Michael is the deputy enforcer. Once man has regained his rightful place, as God purposed him, the devil will have no place.  Therefore, Michael is executing the dominion the overcomers exercise in Christ. `

 

2. And where in the OT did they `keep God`s commands?` 

And also have you loved God and others as yourself?

`This seems to be all God's people, both those of the old and new covenants. (However, the commands in the NT are also there, and much simpler - that is loving God & others . . .)`

 

[Michael37]

39 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Why did war break out in heaven in verse 7?  Someone appeared in heaven . . . the man-child. And immediately the devil was cast down.  They, the overcomers were responsible.

There is no sequential link or logical basis for this assumption. 

[Vine Abider]

My quote:  Why did war break out in heaven in verse 7?  Someone appeared in heaven . . . the man-child. And immediately the devil was cast down.  They, the overcomers were responsible.

7 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

There is no sequential link or logical basis for this assumption. 

One or two verses later doesn't show any possible linkage?

[Selah7]

16 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Why did war break out in heaven in verse 7?  Someone appeared in heaven . . . the man-child. And immediately the devil was cast down.  They, the overcomers were responsible.  This is all one scenario. Christ is not mentioned specifically, but is present in His overcomers.  The verses in this chapter all flow with one big scene - the expulsion of the usurper by man retaking his God given place (which Christ has won for us, and has imparted it to born-again children. The overcomers stand upon His victory - "They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb"). 

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

- Revelation 12:7-9 

The war in heaven is between Satan and his angels, who are fighting against Michael and his angels. This happens at the fifth trump when Satan and his fallen angels are cast down upon the earth.

Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.

- Revelation 9:1

s e l a h

 

 

[Vine Abider]

Just now, Selah7 said:

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

- Revelation 12:7-9 

The war in heaven is between Satan and his angels, who are fighting against Michael and his angels. This happens at the fifth trump when Satan and his fallen angels are cast down upon the earth.

Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.

- Revelation 9:1

s e l a h

 

 

What causes the war in heaven?