What Do People See That Causes Them To Wonder?

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, warrior12 said:

Here brother, you quoted what the two witnesses were assigned to do. They were given supernatural power from the living God to destroy anyone that attacked them. They did not need anyone else.  

You are forming your own theology based on some book or on some concepts that you many have formulated in your mind.  Satan love to plant seeds of confusion, so you have to be carefull of how you portray the written word. Pray for discernment, so that your mind would not be led down a rabbit hole.

Scripture doesn't say who gave them power or that the power is supernatural.

But we do know from scripture the man who places his armed forces in Jerusalem at that time has power and they will practice that power forr 1260 days.

2 these 2

⁹ Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

8 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Isn't Jesus Lord of the Old Testament saints too?   As well as Lord of the angels?

These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.  Rev 11:4

Then he said, “These are the two anointed ones, who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth.”  Zechariah 4:14

I'd suggest re-reading Zechariah 4 for a more complete understanding of who these two witnesses are.

Yes ,Jesus is also Lord of those who fall away .As Jesus said in the gospel.

 

Mathew 24

⁴⁸ But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

⁴⁹ And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

⁵⁰ The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

⁵¹ And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

 

Ohhh my,

looks like some of Jesus's witnesses won't be doing what they supposed to be doing during the time of those two witnesses.

[Last Daze]

1 minute ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Yes ,Jesus is also Lord of those who fall away .As Jesus said in the gospel.

 

Mathew 24

⁴⁸ But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

⁴⁹ And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

⁵⁰ The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

⁵¹ And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

 

Ohhh my,

looks like some of Jesus's witnesses won't be doing what they supposed to be doing during the time of those two witnesses.

Be dodgy if you want.  If you want to understand the two witnesses, read Zechariah 4.

[Shilohsfoal]

Just now, Last Daze said:

Be dodgy if you want.  If you want to understand the two witnesses, read Zechariah 4.

Ive read it.

I've already read the gospel of Jesus Christ and his  commandments he has given to ALL of his witnesses.

Jesus is very clear on how his witnesses are to love their enemies and how to do unto others.

It's not hard to tell if someone is following their Lords commandments or not.

[warrior12]

13 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Scripture doesn't say who gave them power or that the power is supernatural.

But we do know from scripture the man who places his armed forces in Jerusalem at that time has power and they will practice that power forr 1260 days.

2 these 2

⁹ Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

 

 

Brother, you are just fooling yourself and you know it. You are twisting God words to fit a narrative that you are not explaining to the people, but hiding behind a cloak of deceitfulness.  

Cannot further this conversation with you, as you are simply ignoring the the context of what is clearly outlined in revelation 11. 

The two witnesses are Christ servants, sent to preach and proclaim the Lord messages. They are chosen and given powers by the Lord to complete their assignment, and allowed to be killed and God himself restored their lives and taken up to the heavens .    

If you dispute the above, then may your eyes be opened to the truths of what is being revealed.

Nice talking to you, but my discussion ends here.

[Shilohsfoal]

4 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Brother, you are just fooling yourself and you know it. You are twisting God words to fit a narrative that you are not explaining to the people, but hiding behind a cloak of deceitfulness.  

Cannot further this conversation with you, as you are simply ignoring the the context of what is clearly outlined in revelation 11. 

The two witnesses are Christ servants, sent to preach and proclaim the Lord messages. They are chosen and given powers by the Lord to complete their assignment, and allowed to be killed and God himself restored their lives and taken up to the heavens .    

If you dispute the above, then may your eyes be opened to the truths of what is being revealed.

Nice talking to you, but my discussion ends here.

You say Jesus gave them power to kill and torment people and at the same time preach love for their enemies.

What kind of twisted logic is that?

Does Jesus tell his servants to go out and preach forgiveness or to torment others to death?

Make up your mind what you believe Jesus message is.Read the gospel .

[Last Daze]

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

first CLUE:

WHOSE NAMES HAVE NOT BEEN WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE

second CLUE:

2296. thaumazó ►
Strong's Concordance
thaumazó: to marvel, wonder
Original Word: θαυμάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: thaumazó
Phonetic Spelling: (thou-mad'-zo)
Definition: to marvel, wonder
Usage: (a) intrans: I wonder, marvel, (b) trans: I wonder at, admire.
HELPS Word-studies
2296 thaumázō (from 2295 /thaúma, "a wonder, marvel") – properly, wonder at, be amazed (marvel), i.e. astonished out of one's senses; awestruck, "wondering very greatly" (Souter); to cause "wonder; . . . to regard with amazement, and with a suggestion of beginning to speculate on the matter" (WS, 225).


What do people of the world KNOW about the TRIB of Satan/the deception coming upon the world? 

The lying signs and wonders they are ABOUT TO SEE WITH THEIR OWN EYES.  SATAN TRANSFORMED INTO AN ANGEL OF LIGHT, and  SOON will be standing in the place he ought not, SHOWING HIMSELF that he is God.  CLAIMING TO BE GOD.  THE WHOLE WORLD DECEIVED.  SO GOOD AT LYING THAT THE TIME HAD TO BE SHORTENED OR ELSE NO FLESH WOULD BE SAVED....


BUT THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD KNOW NOTHING of this so AGAIN, 


AREN'T THEY GOING TO BE AMAZED?  AREN'T THEY GOING TO WONDER WHAT IS GOING ON?   ONE SECOND IT SEEMS AS IF THE WORLD MIGHT END, THE NEXT EVERYTHING IS GETTING BETTER BY SOME SORT OF MIRACLE.  THE DEADLY WOUND HEALED, SATAN AND THE FALLEN ANGELS HAVING BEEN CAST TO THE EARTH, the image is set up, talking away, take the mark and PROSPER...  

then again, Christians barely seem to know what is going to be happening. 

third CLUE:

IF we get it into context, we are going to be able to discern the TIME and that always always always takes place how? 

PRECEPT ON PRECEPT, PRECEPT ON PRECEPT VERSE BY VERSE..........either follow that method and find the rest

or make fun of it and do it your own way and fall backwards, be snared and TAKEN.

BUILD UPON THE FOUNDATION LAID...RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE TIMES...


SO starting at the beginning of the Chapter AT THE VERY LEAST...
 

1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:


WHAT HAS HAPPENED 'IN THE VISION' BEFORE THIS CONVERSATION TAKING PLACE? 

IT'S REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT especially since IT CONCERNS 'the beast which WAS

AND IS NOT....' SO,

if the ANGEL has taken John to the time PAST THE JUDGMENT being rendered, 

THEN when are we in time??

the BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST DESTORYS the workings (beast) of SATAN and it is at THAT TIME he is bound and put INTO THE ABYSS and SEALED for a thousand years.  

 

back to 

2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Now, 

3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

(Remind you of anything?  Maybe something like a couple chapters back...
3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads).
 

4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

 

8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

WHAT IS THE ANGELS TELLING US?  THE BEAST WAS, BUT NO LONGER IS 
because he is bound and sealed in the ABYSS for the Lords Day

...but THERE IS THE SHORT SEASON coming in which HE IS GOING TO BE RELEASED and that will be AT THE END OF the Lords Day...

but WHILE HE IS BOUND IN THE ABYSS

and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.



once judgment has taken place, Satan is bound, his time of 'IS NOT' is upon him, and he is not able to communicate, is not able to influence, is not able to 'blind', etc.  

BUT he will be loosed....

so he 'yet is'  






And when he is loosed, it will be 'and YET IS' season,

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


 

1For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

2And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

3And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

21Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

22For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

23I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.

24The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

25That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

26This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.

27For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? Isa 14

Right? or no?

I see Satan, the beast, and the false prophet as three separate distinct entities who work together to deceive the world into worshiping the man of sin.

When the angel describes the beast to John, he says that the beast was, and is not, and is to come up out of the abyss.  That timing is relative to John's existence late in the first century.

While I do agree that Satan "is not" during the millennial kingdom, the beast "was not" during the time of the great commission, the spreading of the gospel to all nations.

[WilliamL]

On 6/10/2023 at 3:16 AM, Diaste said:

I can't help but see the journey from man to god when reading about the 4 worlds. 

The four worlds are simply the three heavens mentioned by Paul plus this earthly realm. Nothing earth-shaking about this doctrine. Kabbalism merely provides more information about the three heavens.

On 6/10/2023 at 3:16 AM, Diaste said:

But we have to look at 'there are also 7 kings'.

A presumptive translation. Literally, "and they [3rd person plural verb] are seven kings." No 'also' in the Greek. Meaning that the 7 mountains are the seven kings and the seven heads. Depends upon the spiritual and natural perspectives by which they are being perceived.

On 6/10/2023 at 3:16 AM, Diaste said:

Daniel says the little horn, which is the endtime beast of Rev 13

Daniel says nothing about the little horn being a beast, far from it: it is only an appendage on the head of the Daniel's 4th beast. The Beast of Revelation 11, 13, 17 "will ascend out of the Abyss," wherein no man has ever been. Scripture and Enoch tell us that the Abyss is the place the fallen angels were cast, not any man.

 

[WilliamL]

48 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

When the angel describes the beast to John, he says that the beast was, and is not, and is to come up out of the abyss.  That timing is relative to John's existence late in the first century.

Yes.

49 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

While I do agree that Satan "is not" during the millennial kingdom, the beast "was not" during the time of the great commission, the spreading of the gospel to all nations.

Correct. The Abyss is not opened until the 5th Trumpet (Rev. 9:1-2), well into the period of God's wrath, so well after the Church has been raptured.

And the King of the Abyss is an "angel" (9:11), not a man. See my post above.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

I see Satan, the beast, and the false prophet as three separate distinct entities who work together to deceive the world into worshiping the man of sin.

When the angel describes the beast to John, he says that the beast was, and is not, and is to come up out of the abyss.  That timing is relative to John's existence late in the first century.

While I do agree that Satan "is not" during the millennial kingdom, the beast "was not" during the time of the great commission, the spreading of the gospel to all nations.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work...