What is your View of the 1,000 year Kingdom?

[Justin Adams]

3 minutes ago, SACREDWARRIOR said:

still on the knowledge trail on this!!

We have been in this timeframe for 2k years already.

Revelation is mostly allegorical and figurative with astron empahasis on hyperbole. That is a way the ancients thought and taught.

[AdHoc]

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

I Thess. 3: 13 & 4: 14 relates to the saints asleep in Christ that come with Him at the rapture. (Context)

That is not what the grammar says. First of all we don't "come" with Him at the rapture. We GO to Him. Second, to GO to Him, those asleep must RISE and meet the living. The TOGETHER they are caught away to meet the Lord in the air and clouds. That's how we Meet him. Then, after judgment we travel downwards back to earth. Paul is on earth writing and says how we COME with Him. That means the Lord arrives from a far place. And with Him are all His saints.

The "saints" are defined by Paul's "WE" in verse 12, and "to the end of" in verse 13, coupled with "YOUR hearts" in verse 13. Who is being spoken of is plain.

I can venture a reason why this cannot suite you. It's not meant as anything but  why I think you have to represent the argument you do. If you believe that the dead go to heaven at death, one has massive problems.
1. There is no resurrection because the saints are are in haven with a spiritual body
2. The saints cannot RISE. They are already up there.
3. The dead who rise from Hades could not possibly be raptured "TOGETHER" with the living because you have the already in heaven.
4. The 10 Virgins cannot "go forth" to "meet" the Lord. they are already with Him
5. David, who will rule Israel in resurrection, is lost because Acts 2:26-34 has him still in Hades while the rest of believers are in heaven
6. Christians are of all men most miserable. In 1st Corinthians 15:15-18 they must RISE to have hope. You have them in heaven. To where do they RISE?
7. You destroy the Church. 1st Corinthians 6:15 says "OUR" bodies are the members of Christ's Body. The dead LEAVE their bodies in the grave and go naked to heaven. If the receive another spiritual body they have still left THEIR bodies in corruption. But if our Lord has the "keys of Hades" then it is OUR bodies that will be resurrected when our souls are let free from Hades.

There are more, but suffice to say that the Roman/Occult doctrine that the dead go to heaven causes massive doctrinal problems. But if the saints SOULS are in Hades, and their BODIES in the graves. The dead RISE. The graves OPEN. YOUR Body is resurrected in incorruption with which the Lord can build His Church. You RISE to meet the living at the surface and TOGETHER you are caught away to meet the Lord as he is descending to return to earth.

Returning to our difference, notice that you have to dismiss multiple scriptures to have the Lord Jesus returning without the saints. 

[backontrack]

On 7/15/2023 at 2:16 PM, Vine Abider said:

I was brought up to look at tings in a dispensational way.  Therefore I see the kingdom as a literal, thousand year reign on earth that will be implemented shortly after Christ's return.  Overcoming believers are promised a part in the ruling and reigning over the nations with Him, during this time.

This always seemed to me to be a time of great peace and rest, where all things are made right.  Sinful and selfish things will be no more and basically, all would be calm.  Humans would fulfil God's stated purpose in Genesis 1:26 of being in His image and exercising dominion over all the earth and everything on it.  Hallelujah! 

However, while I believe what I said above is basically true, recently in another thread  @AdHoc presented a few verses that got me to realizing there may be more to the kingdom than what I'd thought.  He brought out that overcomers are to "rule the nations with a rod of iron" (Rev 2:27).  Why does it say this?  The answer goes something like this - the nations and people remaining will not be automatically won over to God's way of doing things.  Therefore, there will be the need for swift, loving and righteous judgment on sinful and rebellious acts and some of the retributions may need to be severe.  That is, the age of grace will be over then, and such things will not be tolerated, not even a little.

Could this mean corporal and capital punishment for heinous acts in the kingdom?  Again I'd not really thought about this aspect so much . . . what do you think?

Well does it not say that Jesus will rule with a rod of Iron Rev 20:6

[Vine Abider]

Just now, backontrack said:

Well does it not say that Jesus will rule with a rod of Iron Rev 20:6

No, not specifically in Rev 20:6.  But it mentions ruling "with a rod of iron" in two other places: Isaiah 11:4 and Rev 2:27.  One speaks about the Lord and the other about His overcomers.

[backontrack]

1 minute ago, Vine Abider said:

No, not specifically in Rev 20:6.  But it mentions ruling "with a rod of iron" in two other places: Isaiah 11:4 and Rev 2:27.  One speaks about the Lord and the other about His overcomers.

Guess we will see if we are saved by his grace, can't wait

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, AdHoc said:

That is not what the grammar says. First of all we don't "come" with Him at the rapture. We GO to Him. Second, to GO to Him, those asleep must RISE and meet the living. The TOGETHER they are caught away to meet the Lord in the air and clouds. That's how we Meet him. 

 

I said -

1 Thess. 3: 13 & 4: 14 relates to the saints asleep in Christ that come with Him at the rapture. (Context)

And your reply is wrong. Here is the whole scripture showing that those who died in Christ will come with Him to rise with the whole Body of Christ.

`For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him THOSE WHO SLEEP IN JESUS.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means preceded those who are asleep.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.` (1 Thess. 4: 14 - 17)

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Then, after judgment we travel downwards back to earth. Paul is on earth writing and says how we COME with Him. That means the Lord arrives from a far place. And with Him are all His saints.

 

You have never shown where the Body of Christ comes back with Him. I have continually shown that Jesus says the angels come with Him NOT us.

 `they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..`  (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.`  (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

 

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

Returning to our difference, notice that you have to dismiss multiple scriptures to have the Lord Jesus returning without the saints. 

I have NEVER said that Jesus does not return to earth, but that you have never given scriptures to show that the Body of Christ comes back to earth from heaven. 

[Marilyn C]

On 7/17/2023 at 8:53 AM, AdHoc said:

 

 

6. Christians are of all men most miserable. In 1st Corinthians 15:15-18 they must RISE to have hope. You have them in heaven. To where do they RISE?

7. You destroy the Church. 1st Corinthians 6:15 says "OUR" bodies are the members of Christ's Body. The dead LEAVE their bodies in the grave and go naked to heaven. If the receive another spiritual body they have still left THEIR bodies in corruption. But if our Lord has the "keys of Hades" then it is OUR bodies that will be resurrected when our souls are let free from Hades.

 

1 Thess 4: 14 - 17 as quoted earlier says that those who are `asleep in Christ` will come with Him and then receive their new bodies and we shall all rise to heaven together. 

What is difficult about that!

[Neighbor]

I tend to enjoy the work of Clarence Larkin when it comes to timeline studies. Doesn't much matter if I end up agreeing with them or not they are excellent reference material to work against. 

https://theoldtimegospel.com/apologetic/photo29_01.html  The charts invite your printing of them. So I feel it is not a violation of any copyright to share of the link to them. See https://theoldtimegospel.com/apologetic/larkin_29.html for detailed accompanying text.