Our default is the spirit (not the flesh)!

[Vine Abider]

We've been going through Romans since late spring and this morning a brother shared a message about the first part of Romans 8.  But it was some of the saints sharing later in the meeting, right after the main message, that really drove home a few wonderful points.

One brother shared that a key point in chapter 8 was that our default is actually not the flesh, but the spirit.  He cited 8:9 which says, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you." He conveyed about how in Romans 7 & 8 we have these laws going on (God's law, law of sin & death, law of the Spirit of life) and that the law of sin operating through the flesh is like gravity - gravity always functions. But there is a higher law than gravity - the law of aerodynamics. When we get in an airplane and the law of aerodynamics is applied to it, then the law of gravity is overcome and we soar.  This is the same with the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus!  

I usually think of us believers as just normally being in the flesh, and therefore we then have to work something up to get into the spirit/Spirit. But Romans chapter 6 & 7 tell us, in various ways, that the old relationship with the law and the flesh is gone for regenerated believers!  In fact, pretty much every book in the New Testament tells us that the old relationship with the law, and the old man under the law, is dead, Dead DEAD in Christ!  (How many verses tell us this* throughout the New Testament!?!?)

Romans 8:12 says we are not under obligation to the flesh, and this is the very same message developed in chapters 6 & 7 too!  For instance, the married woman in chapter 7 is free from the old marriage, because her former legal husband died, in order that she could be married to another - CHRIST!  Romans 6:3 says, "Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?" Then verse 11, "Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus."  Over & over it's telling us this very thing: We died to the old (law, flesh, etc.) and are now married to Christ - and now our default reality is that we're in Christ and in spirit!

In our experience, however, we may still believe the lie that we're not in the new Spirit Man (even though so, so many verses tell us that*) and our feeler may just feel old and condemned and not much like a buoyant believer at all - yada yada yada . . . but scripture tells us it isn't true of us!  So what are we to do practically speaking? Romans 8:6 addresses this: "The mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace."  We have to exercise our will to choose to go with what the Word says about us and to identify with that reality.  And also speak this truth - to ourselves, to God, to each other, and to the enemy!  

The reality is, our default position and identity is in Christ!   All else is a lie.   What freedom - may our minds be renewed to see this and walk in this reality ongoing!  

 

* This was something of a "duh" moment this morning for me, because I've been hearing all these verses (about being buried with Christ so we could walk in newness of life) for several decades . . . yet this morning, some dots got connected!

(BTW: in the gravity/airplane analogy, this means regenerated believers are not sitting on the tarmac trying to get into the plane --> we're already seated in the plane cruising at 30,000 feet)

[Neighbor]

Ah, so your group is finishing up the freedom from condemnation in Christ with the confidence of the believer  through election. Cool stuff!

Chapters 9 through 11 become really interesting as therein is stated God's plan for Israel. That should make for more excellent times  together in study.

[steve morrow]

NOT  OF  THE  FLESH  ---  AND  YET  A  WHOLE  LOT  OF  FLESHLY  WORDS ---

 

PROVERBS 2:6  FOR  THE  LORD  GIVETH  WISDOM  -- OUT  OF -- HIS  MOUTH  COMETH  KNOWLEDGE  AND  UNDERSTANDING --- 

2 TIMOTHY 2:7  consider what I say and  ---AND  THE  LORD  GIVE  THEE  UNDERSTANDING  IN  ALL  THINGS---

PROVERBS 21:16   the man that wandereth out of the way of understanding --- shall remain in the congregation of the dead--

 

JOHN 6:63  it is  --THE  SPIRIT--  that quickeneth  ---**THE  FLESH**---  profiteth nothing  the words that  --I  SPEAK--  unto you they are spirit and they are life 

 

ACTS 28:27  for the heart of this people is waxed gross and their --- ears are dull of hearing --- and their eyes have they closed  ---  lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears --- AND  UNDERSTAND  WITH  THEIR  HEART ---  and should be converted and  --I-- should heal them  ---

--28:28-- be it known therefore unto you that the salvation of  GOD  is  sent unto the gentiles and that they will hear it 

--28:29-- and when  HE  had said these words the jews departed and had great reasoning among themselves 

--28:30-- and paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house and received all that came unto him 

--28:31--  preaching the kingdom of  GOD  and teaching those things which concern ---THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST--- WITH  ALL  CONFIDENCE  NO  MAN  FORBIDDING  HIM ---

 

2 TIMOTHY 3:7  ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth

 

1 TIMOTHY 2:5  for there is one  GOD  ---  and one mediator between GOD  and men  ---  THE  MAN  JESUS  CHRIST

1 CORINTHIANS 8:5 for though there be that are called gods whether in heaven or in earth as there be gods many and lords many 

 

--8:6--  BUT  TO  US  THERE  IS  BUT  ONE  GOD  THE  FATHER  OF  WHOM  ARE  ALL  THINGS  AND  ---WE  IN  HIM---  AND  ONE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  --BY  WHOM-- ARE  ALL  THINGS  ---  AND  WE  BY  HIM ---

--8:7-- HOWBEIT  THERE  IS  NOT  IN  EVERY  MAN  THAT  KNOWLEDGE  ---  for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol and their conscience being weak is  --DEFILED--

 

1 PETER 1:23 ---being born again--- not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible ---by the word of  GOD--- which liveth and abideth forever 

JOHN 17:17  sanctify them through thy truth thy word is truth 

 

2 CORINTHIANS 5:18  --and all things--  are of  GOD  who hath reconciled us to himself  by ---JESUS  CHRIST--- and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation 

 

PROVERBS 17:4  a wicked doer giveth heed to false lips and --A  LIAR-- giveth ear to a naughty tongue 

 

1 JOHN 5:10  he that believeth on the  SON  OF  GOD  hath the witness in himself he that believeth not  GOD  ---hath made  HIM  a liar--- because he believeth not the record that  GOD  gave of  HIS  SON ---

 

2 CORINTHIANS 4:1  therefore seeing we have this ministry as we have received mercy we faint not 

--4:2-- but have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty not walking in craftiness --- nor handling the word of  GOD  deceitfully  ---  BUT  BY  MANIFESTATION  OF  THE  TRUTH --- commending ourselves to every mans conscience in the sight of  GOD 

 

JOHN 5:34  but I receive --- not testimony from man --- but these things --I-- say that you might be saved  

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vine Abider]

20 hours ago, steve morrow said:

NOT  OF  THE  FLESH  ---  AND  YET  A  WHOLE  LOT  OF  FLESHLY  WORDS ---

I don't know what that means . . .

[TheBlade]

Hey Vine.. man yes amen to "I usually think of us believers as just normally being in the flesh". The lord once said to me " I know its hard for you to go from the natural to the supernatural from a regular job into the ministry". When God tells you how He sees you yet I still haha struggle to see spirit when this flesh only sees flesh

[steve morrow]

NOT  UNDERSTAND

 

JOHN 8:43  why do you not understand my speech --- even because you cannot hear  MY  words ---

JOHN 1:43  the day following  JESUS  would go forth into galilee and findeth philip and saith unto him ---follow me---

MARK 4:12  that seeing they may see and not perceive and hearing they may hear --- AND  NOT  UNDERSTAND --- lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them 

 

PROVERBS 8:6  hear for I will speak of excellent things and the opening of  MY  lips shall be right things 

--8:7-- for  MY  mouth shall speak truth and wickedness is an abomination to  MY  lips 

--8:8--  all the words of  MY  MOUTH  are in righteousness there is nothing froward or perverse in them 

 

MATTHEW 4:19  --- and  HE  saith unto them  ---FOLLOW  ME---  and I will make you fishers of men

 

PROVERBS 8:20  I lead in the way of righteousness in the midst of the paths of judgement

--8:21--  that I may cause those  -- that love  ME  to inherit substance -- and I will fill their treasures

 

MATTHEW 5:6 blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness 

PROVERBS 10:2  treasures of wickedness --profit nothing-- but righteousness delivereth from death 

 

ISAIAH 32:6  for the vile person will speak villany and his heart will work iniquity to practice hypocrisy ---and to utter error against  THE  LORD  to make empty the soul of the hungry --- and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail 

 

EPHESIANS 5:9  FOR  THE  FRUIT  OF  THE  SPIRIT  IS  IN  ALL  GOODNESS  ---  AND  RIGHTEOUSNESS  ---  AND  TRUTH

 

PROVERBS 12:17  HE  THAT  SPEAKETH  TRUTH  SHOWETH  FORTH  RIGHTEOUSNESS  BUT  A  FALSE  WITNESS  DECEIT 

--12:20--  deceit is in the heart of them that imagine evil  ---  but to the counsellors of peace  --is joy--

 

JERMIAH 15:16  thy words were found and I did eat them and thy word was unto me ---the joy and rejoicing of mine heart---  for I am called by thy name  O LORD  GOD  OF  HOSTS

 

ROMANS 14:17  FOR  THE  KINGDOM  OF  GOD  IS  NOT  MEAT  AND  DRINK  ---  BUT  RIGHTEOUSNESS  AND  PEACE  AND  JOY  IN  THE  HOLY  SPIRIT ---

 

JOHN 6:63  IT  IS  THE  SPIRIT  THAT  QUICKENETH  --- THE  FLESH  PROFITETH --NOTHING--  THE  WORDS  THAT  -- I  SPEAK -- UNTO  YOU  --  THEY  ARE  SPIRIT  AND  THEY  ARE  LIFE --

 

PROVERBS 21:30  THERE  IS  NO  WISDOM  NOR  UNDERSTANDING  NOR  COUNSEL  --- AGAINST  THE  LORD ---

 

AND  YET  A  WHOLE  LOT  OF  FLESHLY  WORDS 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

[Marilyn C]

On 9/4/2023 at 7:13 AM, Vine Abider said:

We've been going through Romans since late spring and this morning a brother shared a message about the first part of Romans 8.  But it was some of the saints sharing later in the meeting, right after the main message, that really drove home a few wonderful points.

One brother shared that a key point in chapter 8 was that our default is actually not the flesh, but the spirit.  He cited 8:9 which says, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you." He conveyed about how in Romans 7 & 8 we have these laws going on (God's law, law of sin & death, law of the Spirit of life) and that the law of sin operating through the flesh is like gravity - gravity always functions. But there is a higher law than gravity - the law of aerodynamics. When we get in an airplane and the law of aerodynamics is applied to it, then the law of gravity is overcome and we soar.  This is the same with the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus!  

I usually think of us believers as just normally being in the flesh, and therefore we then have to work something up to get into the spirit/Spirit. But Romans chapter 6 & 7 tell us, in various ways, that the old relationship with the law and the flesh is gone for regenerated believers!  In fact, pretty much every book in the New Testament tells us that the old relationship with the law, and the old man under the law, is dead, Dead DEAD in Christ!  (How many verses tell us this* throughout the New Testament!?!?)

Romans 8:12 says we are not under obligation to the flesh, and this is the very same message developed in chapters 6 & 7 too!  For instance, the married woman in chapter 7 is free from the old marriage, because her former legal husband died, in order that she could be married to another - CHRIST!  Romans 6:3 says, "Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?" Then verse 11, "Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus."  Over & over it's telling us this very thing: We died to the old (law, flesh, etc.) and are now married to Christ - and now our default reality is that we're in Christ and in spirit!

In our experience, however, we may still believe the lie that we're not in the new Spirit Man (even though so, so many verses tell us that*) and our feeler may just feel old and condemned and not much like a buoyant believer at all - yada yada yada . . . but scripture tells us it isn't true of us!  So what are we to do practically speaking? Romans 8:6 addresses this: "The mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace."  We have to exercise our will to choose to go with what the Word says about us and to identify with that reality.  And also speak this truth - to ourselves, to God, to each other, and to the enemy!  

The reality is, our default position and identity is in Christ!   All else is a lie.   What freedom - may our minds be renewed to see this and walk in this reality ongoing!  

 

* This was something of a "duh" moment this morning for me, because I've been hearing all these verses (about being buried with Christ so we could walk in newness of life) for several decades . . . yet this morning, some dots got connected!

(BTW: in the gravity/airplane analogy, this means regenerated believers are not sitting on the tarmac trying to get into the plane --> we're already seated in the plane cruising at 30,000 feet)

Hi VA,

I so love that truth, thanks for sharing it. Wonderful. I used to fly planes and 30,ooo feet is way above where I used to fly. It is really up into the heavens, praise the Lord.

Now, just a point on Rom. 7: 4 some versions have `married,` but that is not the Greek. The Greek word for married is `gamed,` and that is NOT in Rom. 7: 4 it is the Greek word `Ginomai,` meaning `might become,` or `might belong,` as some versions say.

`So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.` (Rom. 7: 4) 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

On 9/3/2023 at 4:13 PM, Vine Abider said:

you are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you

And for those living in sin, they are refusing to allow the Holy Spirit to live in them... therefore they are back under condemnation because Romans 8 says God has condemned sin in the flesh.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

It's no surprise that many newer translations leave the second part of Romans 8:1 out... "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Walking after the flesh = condemnation because that's living in sin.
Being led by the Holy Spirit = life because that is following God's Word as Jesus said the Holy Spirit leads us in to all Truth and Jesus said God's Word is Truth

T^he simple solution is admit it and quit is, but some always want to argue for Christians to still be saved if they are living in sin which is not biblical and this teaching is a stumbling block to Christians to think they can continue in sin and it's all good up in the hood when it certainly is not!

 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

On 9/4/2023 at 4:47 PM, Vine Abider said:

I don't know what that means . . .

It's code for something man!

If we fast and pray for a really long time.... it might become more clear, or not. 

[SpiritSong]

Shouldn't the Spirit be our default if we are indeed now new wine skins for the new wine? Makes sense to me. The flesh is a definite choice, but once we know the truth, we are set free, right?