Progressive Sanctification/Salvation

[Mr. M]

1 minute ago, Mr. M said:

I said nothing of the kind. I asked, how are we to establish a heart belief in the resurrection? I then gave the answer. I could never apply this to others, it is a measure we make of ourselves.

1 Corinthians 11:

 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord,

that we may not be condemned with the world.

Let us not be disqualified.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith.

Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?

—unless indeed you are disqualified. 

6 But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified.

 

30 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Romans 10:

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and

believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead,

you will be saved. 

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness,

and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

When cited to define salvation, the part about "believing in your heart" in the resurrection, is usually glossed over. By what measure can someone establish is their heart that they truly believe in the resurrection? To the degree that they are willing to die with Him. This is the Gospel of your salvation.

 

[angels4u]

6 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

I never assume the worst of others, my friend. I'm not in the habit of judging who is a "genuine" Christian and who is not based upon appearances. I'm aware of the "hell insurance" (or ticket to heaven) scenario which you mention, but I was never subject to that myself. The Lord called me to Him, and so I came to Him. That is where it all began.

A tree cannot grow unless the seed dies and gives rise to a sprout! We cannot be conformed to His image if we are not His; we cannot be delivered from the corruptible to receive the incorruptible if our lives haven't been hidden in Jesus Christ. 

The Lord knows who is His, and who is not. That's sufficient for me because after all, I'm to treat others how I wish to be treated myself. 

Quote

The Lord knows who is His, and who is not. That's sufficient for me because after all, I'm to treat others how I wish to be treated myself.

Amen!

We follow Him because we love Him and for what He did for for us,we're not to judge but to love other people and lead them to the truth and guide whenever we can,God is not finished with us yet either

God knows who we really are and what our thought are , let He be glorified in our life

We can plant,the Holy Spirit makes it grow ..

I love Him because He first loved me:)

To come back to the question,for me its most important that people come to the Lord and accept His plan of Salvation and He will begin to change people and mold them in who He wants them to be. He is the potter and we are the clay . Holiness is what we strive for and the can only be done by surrendering our lives to Him.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

We’ve touched on the subject of progressive sanctification (or salvation) in a few different threads, so I thought this would be a good topic to discuss.  Progressive sanctification is the concept that our salvation in Christ is carried out in three main stages:

1.     Initial -  Being justified and born-again with the Father’s life

 

Hi VA,

Another commendable topic, there bro. Now, just interested why you wrote `Father`s life,` and not the Son`s life.

`And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." (1 Cor. 15: 45)

`And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.` (1 Cor. 15: 49)

regards, Marilyn.

[Mr. M]

13 minutes ago, angels4u said:

To come back to the question,for me its most important that people come to the Lord and accept His plan of Salvation and He will begin to change people and mold them in who He wants them to be. He is the potter and we are the clay . Holiness is what we strive for and the can only be done by surrendering our lives to Him.

Well said. There was some confusion in that @Marathoner thought that I was questioning the sincerity of someone else's belief. I agree that we are without qualification to make that judgment. My question concerned the genuine nature of someone coming to Christ on false pretenses, and to be clear, this comes from a "church growth strategy" that I first became aware of in the 90's. You hit the nail on the head when you state that what is being accepted is God's plan for salvation, of translating us to conform to the image of His Son, not offer a Golden Ticket.

[angels4u]

2 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Well said. There was some confusion in that @Marathoner thought that I was questioning the sincerity of someone else's belief. I agree that we are without qualification to make that judgment. My question concerned the genuine nature of someone coming to Christ on false pretenses, and to be clear, this comes from a "church growth strategy" that I first became aware of in the 90's. You hit the nail on the head when you state that what is being accepted is God's plan for salvation, of translating us to conform to the image of His Son, not offer a Golden Ticket.

Marathoner is not like that and didn't mean to judge,I know him for a long time

[Mr. M]

Just now, angels4u said:

Marathoner is not like that and didn't mean to judge,I know him for a long time

No doubt. And I would prefer to be second guessed than left in error.

[Michael37]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

We’ve touched on the subject of progressive sanctification (or salvation) in a few different threads, so I thought this would be a good topic to discuss.  Progressive sanctification is the concept that our salvation in Christ is carried out in three main stages:

1.     Initial -  Being justified and born-again with the Father’s life

2.     Ongoing - Being sanctified by His indwelling Spirit during our current life here

3.     Future - The instant glorification of our bodies

I’ll keep the opening post short, with just a few verses for each progression, as people don’t usually read overly long posts (hint hint).

 1.     Initial - Having been saved

 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.   Ephesians 2:8

For you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.  1 Peter 1:23

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise   Ephesians 1:13

2.     Ongoing - Being saved

For we are to God the sweet aroma of Christ among those who are being saved . . .      2 Corinthians 2:15

He that has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ  Philippians 1:6

And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.   2 Corinthians 3:18

3.     Future Hope - Will be saved

We ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved.   Romans 8:23-24

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.  1 Corinthians 15:51

 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.  1 John 3:2

Here's my go-to passage and conceptual framework on this subject:

Jer 17:5-10  This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind, who makes the flesh his strength and turns his heart from the LORD.  (6)  He will be like a shrub in the desert; he will not see when prosperity comes. He will dwell in the parched places of the desert, in a salt land where no one lives.  (7)  But blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose confidence is in Him.  (8)  He is like a tree planted by the waters that sends out its roots toward the stream. It does not fear when the heat comes, and its leaves are always green. It does not worry in a year of drought, nor does it cease to produce fruit.  (9)  The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?  (10)  I, the LORD, search the heart; I examine the mind to reward a man according to his way, by what his deeds deserve.

Spiritual Life and Growth:

1. Conversion and Communion

2. Confession and Cleansing

3. Commitment and Counsel

That's the outline, keeping it short for the group.
 

[Marathoner]

4 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Well said. There was some confusion in that @Marathoner thought that I was questioning the sincerity of someone else's belief. I agree that we are without qualification to make that judgment. My question concerned the genuine nature of someone coming to Christ on false pretenses, and to be clear, this comes from a "church growth strategy" that I first became aware of in the 90's. You hit the nail on the head when you state that what is being accepted is God's plan for salvation, of translating us to conform to the image of His Son, not offer a Golden Ticket.

Yes, I misunderstood what you wrote. I appreciate the clarification, brother. My apologies for missing the boat and falling into the water! 

Coming to our Lord Jesus Christ is a matter of our testimony. This relates specifically to what @Vine Abider shared regarding the progressive nature of the Lord's work in each one of us, for I was utterly clueless when the Lord called to me. It's rather personal to be sure, but it would be worthwhile to share some of my testimony here because our brother might not be aware of how relevant his topic is to me. Indeed, it speaks of my relationship with the Lord in a powerful way.

This is going to be much longer than what I typically post.

I suffered many things under the roof of my parents' house so that, when I managed to escape their power by enlisting in the U.S. Army, it was a foreshadowing of what was to come. For the first time in my life, I was free of that prison I had languished in from the day I was born, and I was not yet aware of what a mess I truly was. I did not comprehend what years of abuse and neglect can do to a human being, let alone what those things had done to me. Witnessing terrible things being done to my siblings damaged my heart and mind, but the military offered me a place where I was only known by my dedication to duty and willingness to follow my lawful orders with precision. When I did well, I was commended for it. I wasn't subject to random beatings... or worse, being forced to watch while those whom I love were assaulted and brutalized... and it wasn't impossible to satisfy my superiors. In fact, I was shocked by their approval and commendations regarding my performance as a soldier. I couldn't believe it. It must be a lie. 

After my term of enlistment expired and I was honorably discharged, I was lost in this world. I couldn't return to the place I had escaped from, but neither did I have a place to go. I continued to lead the only life I had known as a child: moving from one place to the other. As some will already know, I wasn't raised learning about the Lord. Of course, I had heard about Jesus Christ in passing --- most of us in the United States have at one time or another --- but as a young man (20s), the programming of my childhood had successfully conditioned me to avoid Christians and churches. I was beaten if it was discovered that I had contact with Christians. I wasn't permitted to have Christian friends... it was just a part of the only life I had known in this world. I refused to attend the church on post during Army Basic Training, opting to scrub pots and pans in the mess hall kitchen (KP duty) while the rest of my platoon went to church on Sundays. 

Did some go just to avoid work details like KP duty? Yes, quite a few did, but I wasn't concerned about that. I focused all of my attention and energy upon doing the best job in the mess hall kitchen I possibly could, earning the regard of the mess hall non-commissioned officer in charge. He appreciated my enthusiasm, and I enjoyed the opportunity to work. It kept my mind off of myself and my troubles, and that was the gift the U.S. Army offered to me. It was why I did so well as a soldier. 

When the Spirit of the Lord came after my time in the Army was finished, it was out of the blue. Instead of recounting what the Lord said, I would like to communicate to our readers what I knew:

I knew that He is God. I was an outcast in this world, but the Lord claimed me as His own; He wasn't wrathful, nor did He chastise me for the many wrongs I have committed. Come to Me, the Lord said, and He would relieve me of those burdens which tormented me for so long. The Lord would fashion me into the man He intended me to be, and I would never have to leave His presence. I would not be a stranger in His house, and He would never cast me out. 

That was the beginning of His work, and I'm surely not the only one who has been changed by our Lord Jesus Christ over the course of time. I didn't always understand, but my comprehension wasn't needful. It wasn't needful for this work is done by Him, and not us. We are the clay, and the Lord is the Potter. We are clay in His hand!

Having been a mess taught, healed, and restored by the Lord offers me insight into the suffering of our brothers and sisters who have endured the same. This is why I refuse to judge based on appearances alone, as some are wont to do (I know you aren't doing that, brother). Not only have I been a complete mess, but the Lord has planted me into the lives of others were also a complete mess. Some have been damaged by the self-righteous who condemned them because they couldn't understand, so I tend to be a bit sensitive where that is concerned. I'm here for them.  

[Dennis1209]

If I remember correctly, I want to submit an analogy I once heard on this topic and the process—a peach tree, for example.

The peach tree starts as a seed kernel; perhaps for safe keeping and future use, these seeds were stored in a plastic vacuum-sealed bag and placed into a -20-degree F. freezer. Is this seed still alive, partially alive, or dead?

One day down the road, this seed was planted amidst thorns, thistles, tares, and weeds (Matt. 13:7). What is involved for this seed to take "root" (Mat. 13:22). Nurturing, caring for, and changing its surrounding environment encourages and influences its life and growth (Mat. 13:8). It either flourishes, stagnates, gets eaten by rodents, or dies.

In this example, the root took deeply, and with care, management, and a positive environment over the years, it grew, blossomed, and started to bear fruit. For years after that, the peach tree dropped its seed to the ground, producing more of its kind under management and loving care until it became a collective grove of peach trees bearing fruit.

We see the process of this example. The seed is technically dead, but something in it can be made alive, take root, mature, blossom, bear fruit, reproduce, and replace itself. The existence of this seed came from lineage back to the first progenitor of its kind.

We see this single seed's three-step past, present, and future process.

·         What it was, what happened to it, and where it came from with its history.

·         What it is, alive, growing and maturing, producing fruit, or stagnant and perishing.

·         What it will be. Dead, not replacing itself or multiplying. Or, fruitful, dropping many seeds, producing more fruit.

I heard this correlation many moons ago, and this thread brought forth that memory again.

[Neighbor]

The born again are "set aside"(sanctified) for a purpose  of God by God. Within that purpose is a progression of the fully justified seen as righteous by God individuals that have been foreknown and predestined by God from before the beginning (Creation). All of the set aside have been given to Jesu by His father and Jesus loses not a one.

Though set aside for holy purpose  there is also  progressive furthering of that set aside that makes what is set side more useful in serving God's purpose.