Daniel chapter 2 (no not Revelation) by verse

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

1 hour ago, douggg said:

verse 41 - the Roman Empire manifested in the end times as the EU.

Okay and thanks. Now, what tells you that? In order got you to come to that conclusion you must have identified the toes, the potter’s clay, what kingdom was divided, why was this kingdom divided, when was it divided, what is meant by the “strength of iron was within it.”

These terms must be explained to show what will take place, when and why..

Hi Charlie...

You asked @douggg where he obtained the evidence to come to his conclusion.

Well, in the OP you determined that Rome was the fourth kingdom from looking at Daniel 2...."Although there is NO name given to these four kingdoms, I find they are Babylon, Medes-Persia, Greece and Rome. (4 and only 4 kingdoms).

So how did you determine Rome is the fourth kingdom....from Dan 2 only?

I would say from All of Daniel, but we are looking at Dan 2 only.

If a person is going to bring forth their pre-conceived/pre-determined  findings/conclusions, then all those who respond should also be able to bring theirs to the table.

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Okay and thanks. Now, what tells you that? In order got you to come to that conclusion you must have identified the toes, the potter’s clay, what kingdom was divided, why was this kingdom divided, when was it divided, what is meant by the “strength of iron was within it.”

These terms must be explained to show what will take place, when and why.. 

 

In Daniel 7

23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

So amongst the ten kings, three of them apparently will disagree over some policy and be removed by the little horn person, and subsequently replaced.

 

[Charlie744]

7 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Charlie...

You asked @douggg where he obtained the evidence to come to his conclusion.

Well, in the OP you determined that Rome was the fourth kingdom from looking at Daniel 2...."Although there is NO name given to these four kingdoms, I find they are Babylon, Medes-Persia, Greece and Rome. (4 and only 4 kingdoms).

So how did you determine Rome is the fourth kingdom....from Dan 2 only?

I would say from All of Daniel, but we are looking at Dan 2 only.

If a person is going to bring forth their pre-conceived/pre-determined  findings/conclusions, then all those who respond should also be able to bring theirs to the table.

First, I think it is quite clear that in ANY topic within this Forum, regardless of how specific a topic is presented, the responses ALWAYS goes left or right and almost always begin to focus on one or more “side issue.” Every topic seems to develop more than a few of their own paths. And this topic, regardless of how limited it is presented (3 specific verses), quickly moved to latter chapters in Daniel, comments from Revelation and even you brought in Islam and the latter times.

Secondly, on page 1, Dougg himself brought in verses from later chapters in Daniel. I have been guilty of responding to those posts as others have .. if you, or myself or Dougg bring up a point that is outside of the 3 verses, everyone will respond. 
 

Also, I believe in page 4, I specifically mentioned that there is no name provided for ANY of the 4 kingdoms in these verses but I offered my opinion based on the metals, their order. 

Finally, I listed the 4 kingdoms that were provided by those responding to the 3 verses. They came from you folks! I was not the only one that contends Rome is the 4th kingdom- and if you go through the responses, even Dougg agreed it was Rome. 
 

I believe you may have mentioned recently that you believe the 4th kingdom might be Islam? 
 

Do you want me to add Islam to the list and make it 5? No problem. 
 
So, if you would like to offer what verse 41 means / applies to - your 4th kingdom of Islam or something else, thst would be great. 

 

 

[Charlie744]

14 minutes ago, douggg said:

In Daniel 7

23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

So amongst the ten kings, three of them apparently will disagree over some policy and be removed by the little horn person, and subsequently replaced.

 

To me, these apply to Rome. And I believe you may have already agreed the 4th kingdom is Rome.. (???). But who are the actors and the events of verse 41?

 

[douggg]

10 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

To me, these apply to Rome. And I believe you may have already agreed the 4th kingdom is Rome.. (???). But who are the actors and the events of verse 41?

 

Charlie, what I been consistently writing is Roman Empire, not Rome.

The actors of the feet are various European royalty who made alliances with one another, sometimes reinforced by marriages, since the time of the weakening of the Roman Empire.

The actors of the toes are the pact of ten kings (leaders) of the EU.    Some of the countries of the EU are strong and others are weak.     The ten toes do not represent ten countries, but a pact of ten leaders of the EU.     That pact has not come together yet.   Nor the little horn person made certain his identity.

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by douggg

[Charlie744]

16 minutes ago, douggg said:

Charlie, what I been consistently writing is Roman Empire, not Rome.

The actors of the feet are various European royalty who made alliances with one another, sometimes reinforced by marriages, since the time of the weakening of the Roman Empire.

The actors of the toes are the pact of ten kings (leaders) of the EU.    Some of the countries of the EU are strong and others are weak.     The ten toes do not represent ten countries, but a pact of ten leaders of the EU.     That pact has not come together yet.   Nor the little horn person made certain his identity.

 

Not sure I understand the difference between Rome and the Roman Empire. 
 

Again, if you do not mind, how do you get the relationship or basis for the your interpretations they are 10 EU kings, or various European royalty? What do any of this have to do with God and His plan of salvation?

 

 

[douggg]

11 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Not sure I understand the difference between Rome and the Roman Empire. 
 

Again, if you do not mind, how do you get the relationship or basis for the your interpretations they are 10 EU kings, or various European royalty? What do any of this have to do with God and His plan of salvation?

 

 

Rome is a city.   Roman Empire is an expanse of governance over many lands and nations.

The EU is a modern day governance, of the latter days, of the parable of the fig tree generation.

Daniel 2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

Everything you read in the bible cover to cover is about the mystery of God spoken of in Revelation 10:

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

What is the mystery of God ?

It is God's plan of undoing all the damage to creation done by Satan and his angels. And redeeming mankind, and restoring the earth.

Edited December 11, 2023 by douggg

[Charlie744]

27 minutes ago, douggg said:

Rome is a city.   Roman Empire is an expanse of governance over many lands and nations.

The EU is a modern day governance, of the latter days, of the parable of the fig tree generation.

Daniel 2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

Everything you read in the bible cover to cover is about the mystery of God spoken of in Revelation 10:

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

What is the mystery of God ?

It is God's plan of undoing all the damage to creation done by Satan and his angels. And redeeming mankind, and restoring the earth.

Thanks.

[Marilyn C]

On 12/9/2023 at 4:28 PM, Charlie744 said:

He is the little horn of Daniel.

The little horn is a Political leader over a kingdom, not religion. Remember the 10 kings get rid of the religion, so bye, bye Pope etc.

[Marilyn C]

On 12/9/2023 at 4:34 PM, Charlie744 said:

You could have broken these verses into as many parts as you like, but there is no verse that hints of a 5th kingdom. Please go through chapter 7 and look when Gabriel declares there are 4 beast kingdoms. If there were 5 in chapter 2 there would be 5 in chapter 7. 
 

But everyone is entitled to interpret Scriptures as they see them. As I mentioned earlier, there is no consensus on most of the “major” issues in Daniel and how the academics, scholars and scholars theologians see them. 

No, those divisions are to do with the body part and the metal which reveals its strength. 

Dan. 7 are 4 great powers of our day as the first 3 continue on after God sets up His kingdom rule through Israel over the nations.

God is NOT repeating Himself BUT revealing more detail of the Gentiles ruling. When you understand who those 4 kingdoms or great powers are of our day then you will see what God is doing much clearer.

God is not locked into the distant past but is right up to date with the main powers that rule our world today.

Have a go at thinking who would be -

1. The Lion (King of the beasts) & eagle`s wings. Which eagle country came out of the Lion?

2. Who is likened to a powerful bear, devouring & killing.

3. What great power came next and started with 4 heads/leaders till it has 27 nations in its Union.

4. Finally, the terrifying beastly kingdom power. Who springs immediately to mind when the world says `terrorists?` 

 

See that wasn`t so hard and now you can see the battle between all those great powers.