An End-Time Consideration

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

So, summing up.

 

Jesus when He was on earth told  -

Israel - His bride, who were in 

Darkness - because the rejected Him, their King, that He would come as a -

Thief in the night - warned them to Watch and not sleep.

 

Jesus, when He ascended to the Father told -

His Believers - His Body who were -

Not in Darkness - because they received Him, their Head, that they would see His coming but -

Not as a thief in the night - so encourage each other all the more.

When Jesus was on earth He told -
Israel that they had committed a sin unpardonable in this age nor the next
Israel that thy, as children of the Kingdom, would be cast out
Israel, as a Vine, had brought forth no fruit
Israel, as a Nation that they would not s Him again until He came in power
Israel, as His brethren according to the flesh that He rejects them
Israel that the were a generation of vipers
Israel that they were "lost Tribes"
Israel that they faced judgment

When our Lord Jesus ascended to the Father the Holy Spirit spoke for Him (Jn.16:13). The Holy Spirit in turn, inspired men to say
Israel would be hardened until the times of the Gentiles were full
Israel is blind
Israel will not be restored till the Church is completed
Israel, as branches of a Kingdom and a King, were cut out in this age
Israel would mourn when they saw the One they pierced
Israel will need to be collected from among all nations
Israel does not exist if a Jew converts to Christ.

Further, the Holy Spirit spoke to the Believers on behalf of Jesus and said;
The Believers should look at Israel because they would go the same way
The Believers are espoused to Jesus
The Believers are Christ's army
The Believers are Christ's Body Members
The Believers are eligible for the Kingdom
The Believers are the Father's House
The Believers are God's servants in this age
The Believers are Christ's Priests in this age
The Believers must live by faith. It was evil to seek a sign
The Believer must be Batized
The Believer is a branch of the TRUE Vine. He must stay grafted in
The Believer is loved to the end
The Believer will be called to replace Israel at the Wedding Feast
The Believer has nothing to do with the Law of Moses
The Believer runs the risk of being cast out of the coming Kingdom
The Believer will have "CELESTIAL glory" in resurrection
... and more.

The prophets of Old said;
Israel are God's chosen people of the earth
God would chastise them so that He might bless them
Israel would be restored NATIONALLY
Israel was divorced from God
Israel were dispersed for their evil
Israel are to be called "Lo-ammi" - "you are NOT my People"
Israel are again to be called, "You are my people"
Israel are again to possess the Good Land
Israel are to serve Emmanuel in Jerusalem
Israel will be free of enemies
Israel will have "TERRESTRIAL glory" in resurrection
Israel will be forgiven their many sins

[FJK]

8 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Israel, as a Nation that they would not s Him again until He came in power

 

 

As I understand it, not having come in power (along not having been preceded by Elijah to announce him) are the major prophecies Jews see as not being been fulfilled yet and the major reasons they have rejected him as Messiah to date.

But maybe I'm wrong about this,  Jews could probably give a better explanation (at least if you could ever find two Jews that agreed on the same thing).

[AdHoc]

8 hours ago, FJK said:

 

 

As I understand it, not having come in power (along not having been preceded by Elijah to announce him) are the major prophecies Jews see as not being been fulfilled yet and the major reasons they have rejected him as Messiah to date.

But maybe I'm wrong about this,  Jews could probably give a better explanation (at least if you could ever find two Jews that agreed on the same thing).

I agree with you. There are many prophecies to be fulfilled. If you don't accept our Lord now, you are then waiting for the prophecies of both comings. That is why, I understand, the Lord said in Matthew 24:23-24 that false Christs would be announced everywhere, both open and secret. Some will be looking to Bethlehem and some to Bozrah, but disciples can report that He will come from the clouds near a big battle - the vultures will point to Him.

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

Well said there Ad Hoc. Now I was just summing up what 1to3 and I were discussing not the whole topic of the thread, in case you thought that. And as I hadn`t put 1to3`s name at the top then that is quite understandable.

regards, Marilyn.

[AdHoc]

1 minute ago, Marilyn C said:

Well said there Ad Hoc. Now I was just summing up what 1to3 and I were discussing not the whole topic of the thread, in case you thought that. And as I hadn`t put 1to3`s name at the top then that is quite understandable.

regards, Marilyn.

Thanks for the courteous answer. I thought you would give me a rocket for my less than elegant posting the last time around. Your maturity shows.

[Marilyn C]

1 minute ago, AdHoc said:

Thanks for the courteous answer. I thought you would give me a rocket for my less than elegant posting the last time around. Your maturity shows.

I hope so, it`s a long, long journey....and you are also there too bro.

[FJK]

11 hours ago, AdHoc said:

If you don't accept our Lord now, you are then waiting for the prophecies of both comings.

This is something I've wondered about lately, prior to the advent of Jesus, were there any prophecies that prophecied two separate comings of the Christ?

I think this may be another stumbling block that keeps the Hews from accepting Jesus as Messiah.

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, FJK said:

This is something I've wondered about lately, prior to the advent of Jesus, were there any prophecies that prophecied two separate comings of the Christ?

I think this may be another stumbling block that keeps the Hews from accepting Jesus as Messiah.

I personally doubt that they were confused in any way. Our Lord fulfilled over 330 prophesies and still has 600+ to go. The Jew was schooled to believe the witness of two or three. I think the problem lies in what one can see on this very Forum. The denial of being wrong.

Israel's crisis was never foreign powers. It was their breaking the Law. In Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 are progressive penalties for Law-breaking ending in dispersion throughout foreign Nations. In Deuteronomy 30:1-5, is the solution - return to the Law. Jesus came with an offer. REPENT .... and the Kingdom of Heaven was theirs.

Repent means turn 180°. Israel were to admit that the Law had failed and that they had earned their plight. This was too much for a Nation that had to establish their own righteousness. The fig leaves of Adam's apron satisfied Eve, but when God approached, Adam admitted that he was naked (though he was clothed. When our Lord Jesus appeared as the light and life of God, the dirt was revealed and the Jew had nowhere to hide. His reaction to being put under the light was to hate the Accuser.

Again we see this in Deuteronomy 8:1-8. God allowed Israel hardship so that they might know what was in their hearts. God knows, but do we know. WE always can check the extent of a man's vocabulary when his finger is jammed in the door.

We Christians had an overriding advantage. (i) The Holy Spirit is given to convict of sin and judgment (Jn.16:8): (ii) God draws us (Jn.6:44), and (iii) God reveals Jesus to us (Matt.16:16-17). And we don't have 1,500 years of self justification.

[FJK]

19 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

I personally doubt that they were confused in any way. Our Lord fulfilled over 330 prophesies and still has 600+ to go. The Jew was schooled to believe the witness of two or three. I think the problem lies in what one can see on this very Forum. The denial of being wrong.

So how do you explain Jesus to a Jew as being the Messiah in Jesus has only fulfilled about a third of the prophecies about him?  Jews tend to be sticklers about this.

I can see why Christianity has spread mostly among the Gentiles since the Gentiles did not (and do not) have prophecies that would identify a coming Messiah and would be more receptive to the idea without having a qualification that had to be met to accept it.   Gentiles are more able to live by faith alone, but Jews can only live by putting faith in the law first (in my thinking which I don't guarantee is right).

As far as denial of being wrong, that's the ego-pride thing, something that seems to be a universal problem for all men and not limited to anyone in particular.  The biggest obstacle between ourselves and Truth is always ourselves.

 

[AdHoc]

18 minutes ago, FJK said:

So how do you explain Jesus to a Jew as being the Messiah in Jesus has only fulfilled about a third of the prophecies about him?  Jews tend to be sticklers about this.

I can see why Christianity has spread mostly among the Gentiles since the Gentiles did not (and do not) have prophecies that would identify a coming Messiah and would be more receptive to the idea without having a qualification that had to be met to accept it.   Gentiles are more able to live by faith alone, but Jews can only live by putting faith in the law first (in my thinking which I don't guarantee is right).

As far as denial of being wrong, that's the ego-pride thing, something that seems to be a universal problem for all men and not limited to anyone in particular.  The biggest obstacle between ourselves and Truth is always ourselves.

 

You make some good points, and I knew you would. That's why I said "pers0nally". The Bible is full of mysteries and as the late Churck Missler showed on Youtube, just seven accurately fulfilled prophecies in a row runs into Mathematical improbability.

I can only surmise what goes on in a Jewish mind based on their doings in the Bible. But one has said; "three Jews makes four opinions", so I am at a loss.