Holiness, anyone?

[RdJ]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

I believe it is ... those who think not just moved the goal line for themselves... 
Philippians 3:12 (KJV)

[12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

1 John 1:10 (KJV)

[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

 

 

Yes that is normal. It's getting mature and overcoming sin, but if your whole life you're say addicted to alcohol or something and can never be free, that's not how it's meant to be.

I think the problem with those holiness preachers is that they speak against for instance fornication because people in church live in that sin and they say: repent! Be holy! And the person who has some minor character struggle ornot even, but is just not perfect like Jesus feels attacked and thinks it's legalism. That's what they said when Steve Hill preached. People with a soft conscience or something felt attacked and for them they invited a grace preacher, which is dangerous for one who wants to keep living in blatant sin. You need a bit of both I think.

Edited January 23, 2024 by Renskedejonge

[D. Adrien]

Doesn't it all begin with how one thinks?

Isa. 55:7  (ESV)

let the wicked forsake his way,
and the unrighteous man his thoughts;

Mark 7:20-23 (ESV)

And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

2Cor 10:5 (ESV)

We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ.

There needs to be an effort to fill one's mind with the Logos and actions will follow with the help of the Holy Spirit.

[TheBlade]

On 1/22/2024 at 5:51 PM, Ausie 52 said:

I have noticed that there is a silence on this most vital subject. The subject of holiness is all through the Bible, especially in the New Testament.

Jesus said only the pure in heart will see God. The writer to the Hebrews said , without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

 I believe that the great need of the Church today is the holiness of its members. But, when was the last time you had a sermon on the subject? When was the last time you heard a testimony by someone who had a holiness experience?

Your thoughts?

Are we not already righteous and holy because we believe in trust in Yeshua/Jesus Christ, what He already finished? Its written AMP "But like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves in all your conduct [be set apart from the world by your godly character and moral courage]; because it is written, “YOU SHALL BE HOLY (set apart), FOR I AM HOLY.”

" For rGod has not called us for simpurity, but in holiness."

OT "You shall be holy to me, wfor I the LORD am holy and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be mine."

"You shall be holy, for I the LORD your God am holy."

Just who are we looking at? The flesh which has not changed. Even in the OT "you shall be holy". He can't lie. We all fall at times that does not make you less holy since its through Christ we live, walk. Just get up dust off keep going PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS! 

 

 

 

[Know Jah]

I believe holiness is relative

 

[Jayne]

3 hours ago, Know Jah said:

I believe holiness is relative

 

Relative to what?  I'm curious.

[Tristen]

On 1/23/2024 at 10:51 AM, Ausie 52 said:

I have noticed that there is a silence on this most vital subject. The subject of holiness is all through the Bible, especially in the New Testament.

Jesus said only the pure in heart will see God. The writer to the Hebrews said , without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

 I believe that the great need of the Church today is the holiness of its members. But, when was the last time you had a sermon on the subject? When was the last time you heard a testimony by someone who had a holiness experience?

Your thoughts?

I wouldn't say necessarily that there is "silence" on the topic of "holiness", but rather a focus on the grace that leads to "holiness".

We have to find and teach the balance. Teaching grace without "holiness" deceives some into thinking grace gives one license to sin. Teaching "holiness" without grace can plunge people into self-condemnation, as well as coax people into the deception of legalism.

In the 1970s, God had to remind the church about "holiness". Some portions of the church took the lesson too far - where Christians were no longer permitted to engage with the world at all; i.e. prohibiting dancing, and sports, and other forms of secular entertainment. That constant self-righteous, legalistic pressure killed the faith of many church-goers and gave the church a bad reputation to outsiders (hindering evangelism).

My anecdotal impression is that, for the past 25 years (or so), The Holy Spirit has been emphasizing the grace aspect of the equation. But that too has a potential to get out-of-balance if we are not careful.

 

 

[farouk]

22 hours ago, Tristen said:

 Teaching grace without "holiness" deceives some into thinking grace gives one license to sin. Teaching "holiness" without grace can plunge people into self-condemnation, as well as coax people into the deception of legalism.

 

 

 

Hi @Tristen Good point there.

It has been said that the Lord Jesus showed truth without legalism and grace without compromise (John 1,14).

[Know Jah]

I believe holiness is relative in that. How can we be holy if we fall short at times even sin

 

[FJK]

2 minutes ago, Know Jah said:

I believe holiness is relative in that. How can we be holy if we fall short at times even sin

 

But that shouldn't stand in our way in pursuing holiness as an objective as well as an ideal.

Or should it?

[Know Jah]

Agree we should strive for holiness. Just don't think as imperfect human we will attain it until we are perfect