"We accept Christ - then get a bunch of rules to follow"

[Starise]

11 hours ago, Debp said:

I never think of "rules" but rather the outflowing of good things, the leading of the Holy Spirit from our hearts.   This is a blessed walk....who wants to live a life of misery caused by the sins of the flesh?

Good words. To live in sin is death. Living only for myself and for my self centered desires leads to a life of emptiness because "I" will never find perfect peace doing so aside from God. Sure I can fill my life with diversions, but diversions are not peace.

[backontrack]

On 2/1/2024 at 6:32 AM, Vine Abider said:

In my Tuesday men's fellowship, a brother said this.  So is this what the Christian life is about?

Simple follow me and sin no more be perfect as my father in heaven is perfect mat 5:48

[Scott Free]

8 minutes ago, backontrack said:

be perfect

 

10 minutes ago, backontrack said:

Simple follow me and sin no more be perfect as my father in heaven is perfect mat 5:48

That scripture meant something different to the target audience. Our translation is off point. A clearer expression of that concept is, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other." Galatians 5:22-26

[backontrack]

Our minds for the most part still have a sin nature yes we live by the spirit but Satan is the accuser of the saints and even Jesus told Satan to get behind him so we are no different temped by him. Remember peter Mat 16:22-24. 

 

[Neighbor]

2 hours ago, Slibhin said:

I can't remember if I responded.

I believe in the Torah and I like being a Jew. You can see how that conflicts with your suggestion.

Hi, Thanks for responding.

 I too believe Torah. Being a Jew has it's advantage in many ways according to Saul (Paul).  For if for no other reason than the oracles of God were entrusted to the Jew, according to what He wrote, which I understand to be writing inspired of G-d.

I had perhaps as great a hurdle to trip over as you, in that I was an atheist exposed to faiths, rituals, sects, daily for decades. I was in the funeral industry in a large metropolitan area.  

We arranged over 4,000 funerals a year and twice that number of burials. I was very efficient curteous, and I believe a good servant for every one that had a need that came to our firm for service.

I dealt with  most every "name" in religions  that is known from that large metropolitan area. Yet I did not believe G-d exists at all.  That did not matter to G-d, as He just pulled a Job-lite on me.

I "lost" family members, I lost home I loved, I lost career, I lost friends.  

I was put into a strange place in a strange career had legal battles for five years, shoot outs from gangsters, etc. I could go on and on. It was the pits! 

Then G-d put me before some 145 Gideon Bibles, and 145 black and white  omage tv's with almost nothing on  but a local Christian station. Geesh, weird people on that channel!!!  But it led me to a challenge to read  JOB.

 And then as I was about planning my own accidental death, I was visited by an Angel that challenged me. Now I was a bit dumbfounded by that and sat down to turn on tv and think a moment- Yep that same tv channel with the weird people telling me about Jesus and how all will be well etc etc.

After one especially dumb sounding  presentation I simply said "if that is true  I want it". And bingo I was changed in a flash. I suddenly knew Yeshua. Didn't know it (What is was really) at the time, but it was so. And I was half as nutty about it as were those weird people on the tv.

Has all be well ever since? No! And Yes! Had decades of more turmoil, lost more family, including my beloved wife of 46 years  just as we both thought,- well we made it we made it through the tough years after all!

All sorts of turmoil keeps advancing my way. BUT it is entirely different now. I can handle it somehow. I can handle it, for I have hope certain in Yeshua for all eternity to come. I have a certainty that keeps revealing itself to me day after day after day.

Don't give up Slibhin, don't give in to the enemy; but do  surrender to the specific call to you personally, when it comes from God the Holy Spirit to turn to Yeshua. You do not have to give up Torah to do so.

You might if so led at this time  simply have a little talk with God. I do think the  Holy Spirit will aid in that, just converse and ask G-d, basically if it is true please show me. Show me Yeshua (Jesus).

May God bless you, as you may be a blessing to God. 

 

[believeinHim]

On 2/1/2024 at 2:43 PM, Vine Abider said:

Don't smoke; don't chew; don't go with girls who do!  LOL  (looks like emoticons not working)  Sorry for the levity, but I think the point is that rules will in no way save a person.  Only Christ and His life within does the saving . . .

I don't smoke, nor chew, And I would never go with a brother, so this is not a problem. 

[Vine Abider]

On 2/15/2024 at 10:32 AM, backontrack said:

Simple follow me and sin no more be perfect as my father in heaven is perfect mat 5:48

It is simple!  Christ is the only One who lived the "Christian life" perfectly ("love those who spitefully use you"), so only in and through Him can we be perfect also.

[Neighbor]

On 2/15/2024 at 12:32 PM, backontrack said:

Simple follow me and sin no more be perfect as my father in heaven is perfect mat 5:48

Hi, I suggest that It is not all that simple. God's word, as transliterated into English at least, does require some logic and reason be followed that does take some considerable amount of prayer, reading, and thinking, -work. I am not perfect for example, yet I am "saved". Be perfect in, or be perfected toward-

 

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Be ye therefore perfect, as your Father,.... This perfection is to be restrained to the subject Christ is upon, love to men, and not to be referred to any, or every other thing; wherefore, in Luke 6:36 it is, "be ye merciful, as your Father also is merciful"; and regards not a perfection of degree in that, but objects and quality: that is to say, not that men may, or can, or ought to be as perfect in love, as to the degree of it, as God is; that is impossible: the "as" here, is not a note of equality, but of likeness: such, who profess God to be their Father, ought to imitate him, particularly in their love to men, which ought to be extended to the same objects, as the divine goodness is; that, as he shows regard in a providential way to all men, good and bad, just and unjust, and his tender mercies are over all his works; so ought they to love all men with a natural affection, and hate no man, no, not their enemies: for he that loves only his friends, and not his enemies, loves imperfectly; he does not take in the whole compass of objects his love is to extend unto; and as God loves sincerely, and without dissimulation, so should they. To be "perfect", is to be sincere and upright: in this sense is the word often used, and answers to the Hebrew word which signifies the same: see  Deuteronomy 18:13 which is the passage Christ seems to refer to here; and the sense is, be ye sincere and upright in your love to all men, as your heavenly Father is hearty and sincere in his affections to them.

Additional expositions of Matthew 5:48 at https://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/5-48.htm

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 2/14/2024 at 9:22 PM, Neighbor said:

"God did not save us so that we could spend every moment trying to be good people."

Huh? I suggest Yeshua sacrificed himself willingly precisely because none could obtain that goal;  not just of being"good" but perfect, (holy) in of themselves.  

The goal is perfection! For God is Holy and cannot abide that which is not perfect in His sight, and yet every human is imperfect from conception, failing that standard.

One cannot substitute good for perfect, nor can one run wild so that grace from God flourishes all the more. The very reason for the shed blood of Christ is to cover the sin that God hates. Anything less than perfection is indeed sin.

 It is by grace alone that any are seen as perfect in the sight of God and are thus acceptable to be with Him. God's sacrifice the passover lamb stood and shared the bunch of rules that need become the  mark of appreciation  for His sacrifice. His willing sacrifice. To do less than to paid close attention to that bunch of rules is to dishonor his love, for His Father and us his creation which He created.

Is it too large a burden for me  to attempt obedience out of love and appreciation  for the maker of those rules? Must I hold onto my pride to sing I  did it my way? I do hope I am humble enough to know I cannot do it my way and demand that God accept my "offering".

Jesus did not save us simply to follow rules, and you are correct that following the law should be done out of love not obligation. Our obedience to Christ should be because of our appreciation and gratitude for what he has done, not out of fear for what he will do to us if we don't obey. However the Christianity that I see in the world around me has degraded Christianity to simply following rules and trying not to sin. It's sadness me because that only leads to guilt as we fail greatly to live up to God's perfect standard. It does not give the freedom that Christ promised. I fail the Lord daily, then I repent and keep moving forward. I don't dwell on the past or repeatedly ask forgiveness for something that's already been forgiven. Sadly the man who made it famous to say "I did it my way" is likely spending eternity regretting that type of life. We can never be perfect, but it does not require perfection to show love to our neighbor and love to God.

[steve morrow]

IS  CHRIST  IN  --YOU-- ???

 

1 JOHN 2:3  and hereby we do know that we know  HIM  if we keep  HIS  commandments 

--2:4-- he that saith I know  HIM  and keepeth not  HIS  commandments  --IS  A  LIAR-- and the truth is not in him

--2:5-- but whoso --keepeth  HIS  word-- in him verily is the love of  GOD  perfected   --hereby know we that we are in  HIM--

--2:6-- he that saith he abideth in  HIM ---ought himself also so to walk--- EVEN  AS  HE  WALKED ---

 

1 THESSALONIANS 2:13  for this cause also thank we  GOD  without ceasing because when you received the word of  GOD  which you heard of us you received it not as the word of men but as it is in truth --- THE  WORD  OF  GOD  ---  which effectually worketh also --- IN  YOU  THAT  BELIEVE ---

 

JOHN 5:34  BUT  I  RECEIVE  NOT  TESTIMONY  FROM  MAN  BUT  THESE  THINGS  I  SAY  THAT  YOU  MIGHT  BE  SAVED 

 

PSALM 66:7  HE  ruleth by  HIS  power for ever  HIS  eyes behold the nations let not the rebellious exalt themselves -- selah

2 CORINTHIANS 10:12  for we dare not make ourselves of the number or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves but they measuring themselves by themselves and comparing themselves among themselves are not wise 

EZEKIEL 2:6  and thou son of man be not afraid of them neither be afraid of their words though briars and thorns be with thee and thou dost dwell among scorpions be not afraid of their words nor be dismayed at their looks though they be a rebellious house 

JUDE 1:16  these are murmerers complainers walking after their own lusts and their mouth speaketh great swelling words --- having mens persons in admiration because of advantage ---

 

LUKE 6:46  AND  WHY  CALL  YOU  ME  LORD  LORD  AND  DO  NOT  THE  THINGS  THAT  I  SAY

1 CORINTHIANS 11:1  be you followers of me even as I also am of  CHRIST

LUKE 8:21  --MY  MOTHER--  and  MY  brethren are these which hear the word of  GOD   --AND  DO  IT--

 

JOHN 12:48  he that rejecteth  ME  and receiveth not  MY  words hath one that judgeth him the word  ---THAT  I  HAVE  SPOKEN--- the same shall judge him in the last day 

--12:49--  for I have not spoken --OF  MYSELF-- but  THE  FATHER  which sent  ME  he gave  ME  a commandment what I should say and what I should speak 

--12:50--  and I know that  HIS  commandment is life everlasting whatsoever I speak therefore even as  THE  FATHER  said unto  ME  so I speak 

 

2 THESSALONIANS 3:3  but  THE  LORD  is faithful who shall establish you and keep you from evil 

 

2 TIMOTHY 2:13  IF  WE  BELIEVE  NOT  YET  HE  ABIDETH  FAITHFUL  HE  CANNOT  DENY  HIMSELF 

1 CORINTHIANS 4:2  moreover it is required in stewards that a man be found faithful

 

PSALM 119 38  thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and  --very faithful--

PSALM 119:86  all thy commandments are faithful they persecute me wrongfully help thou me 

PSALM 31:23  o love  THE  LORD  all you  HIS  saints for  THE  LORD  preserveth the faithful and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer

 

ROMANS 16:23  but now is made manifest and by the scriptures of the prophets according to the commandment of the everlasting  GOD  made known to all nations for the obedience of faith

ROMANS 8:9 but you are not in the flesh but in the spirit --IF-- so be the spirit of  GOD  dwell in you --- now  --IF--  any man have not the spirit of  CHRIST  ---  HE IS  NONE  OF  HIS ---

 

JOHN 6:63  it is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that  --I  speak-- unto you they are spirit and they are life 

 

PROVERBS 10:17  HE  IS  IN  THE  WAY  OF  LIFE  THAT  KEEPETH  INSTRUCTION  BUT  HE  THAT  REFUSETH  REPROOF  ERRETH

 

LUKE 18:8  I  TELL  YOU  THAT  HE  WILL  AVENGE  THEM  SPEEDILY  NEVERTHELESS  WHEN  THE  SON  OF  MAN  COMETH  SHALL  HE  FIND  FAITH  ON  EARTH

 

1 TIMOTHY 4:6  if thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things thou shalt be a good minister of  JESUS  CHRIST  nourished up in the ---WORDS  OF  FAITH---  and of good doctrine whereunto thou hast attained 

 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST