Influencers And Mass Murderers

[Mr. M]

28 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

What's thay supposed to mean?

It means that I was not attacking anyone for their profession. The point of the thread is that how we influence others matters. 

29 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

The United States is filled to the brim with Christian tax protesters and advocates for cutting all social programs for the poor, because they think it'll save them a buck in taxes. I also just got done in a thread with genocide advocates.

You are changing the topic for sake of argument. We were talking about western consumerism. If there are Christians who oppose social programs, I would question their status as a Christian beyond a social/political demographic. On the other hand, if they want to move social programs from federal oversight to Churches, that would be interesting.

Genocide advocates? That's sick. Kudos for your opposition.

33 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

In other words... I wouldn't talk about Jews and godliness or love of money.

Not a personal attack or a generalization. In fact, it was just as much a mockery of stereotypes placed on Jews, and I have no doubt that you and your husband stand in contradistinction to the stereotype. I would love to meet you both to be a mutual blessing.

 

36 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

"G-dly" and decent, others not so much... same goes for Jews. People are people, some are not so nice and this includes Jews and Christians.

 

Exactly. I have enjoyed fellowship with Jewish believers for over 3 decades. I don't generalize. I watched Zola Levitt regularly, supported the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews and was sending money to Rabbi Eckstein for the repatriation of Russian Jews when you were learning your aleph bets. Maybe. :)

41 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

It's funny you don't want to impose on someone's conscience because you certainly want to judge them. You're not a mind reader nor our moral gatekeeper and despite what you may think you do not speak for Hashem, even if you think you do.

I am sorry that you took my comments as a personal attack. I did not take yours as such when you posted:

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

sounds like one of those old people back in the day, blaming juvenile delinquency on comic books and that newfangled rock n' roll.

Funny.

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

- Jewish Christian is an oxymoron. I'm also not a zionist... not that it matters.

- You will not be able to meet my husband [Admin edit: in this life as he is deceased]

You called people prostitutes which is a pretty severe attack on people earning a living. If one expands the definition of "prostitution" enough they could argue ANYONE who sells their services is "prostituting" themselves. Maybe perhaps don't judge people or the culture of the younger generations.

Shalom, Slibhin.

Sorry, but being a "Jewish Christian" only SEEMS like an "oxymoron" TO YOU! And, what will you say when Yeeshuwa` (יֵשׁוּעַ) returns and you realize that He IS G-D'S ULTIMATE MESSIAH after all, WHOM YOU REJECTED?! Choose your words more carefully. You DON'T KNOW what you don't know, and G-D has a way of keeping the Jews BLIND to their Messiah until it is their time to see G-D'S POWER REVEALED!

[OneLight]

17 hours ago, Mr. M said:

And yet, for the OP and forum discussion Scriptures were provided to define the use, as well as how the word is currently being applied on social media. You and others defined the word as broadly as possible so as to make the OP pointless. I failed to see the point, nonetheless, I have answered the concerns to allow further discussion.

Actually, the definition I use is the dictionary, not whatever or however I want to define it.  It's your post, do what you will, but don't expect everyone to accept or agree with your point when redefining a word.  I do know how this woke generation has been trying to change words to fit their agenda, which is why you can say "how the word is currently being applied on social media." and be correct ... they changed the meaning by replacing values, not adding to them.

From Dictionary.com

1. a person or thing that influences: The most powerful influencer of beliefs is direct experience.

2. a person who has the power to influence many people, as through social media or traditional media: Companies look for Facebook influencers who can promote their brand.

    

[Mr. M]

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

I do know how this woke generation has been trying to change words to fit their agenda, which is why you can say "how the word is currently being applied on social media." and be correct ... they changed the meaning by replacing values, not adding to them.

This is the "woke generation" definition, added as a second entry on d.com

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

a person who has the power to influence many people, as through social media or traditional media: Companies look for Facebook influencers who can promote their brand.

I am in full agreement with this definition, and it is exactly how I was using the word influencer in the OP. If you could move past that and get to Peter's quote, and look closer at the discussion of the thread throughout, you may come to comprehend the point of the OP:

How we influence other people in

matters of faith cannot be as a busybody.

2 Corinthians 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, 

but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becomes the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel.

Being a "Christian Influencer" is much more hazardous then some may assume.

Matthew 23:15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

I pray that no sincere Christian ever come under this condemnation. 

Do you think that Jewish Evangelists in the Rabbinic Era were insincere?

This only the Lord is able to judge. We should proceed with caution. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a church growth strategy.

[AnOrangeCat]

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

Actually, the definition I use is the dictionary, not whatever or however I want to define it.  It's your post, do what you will, but don't expect everyone to accept or agree with your point when redefining a word.  I do know how this woke generation has been trying to change words to fit their agenda, which is why you can say "how the word is currently being applied on social media." and be correct ... they changed the meaning by replacing values, not adding to them.

Another thing is that the term itself in the context of social media is broad. Sometimes words change naturally, too. Gay at one time used to mean happy, but if you say someone is gay now people aren't going to interpret it as meaning happy. Dictionaries often include multiple meanings for words, and the fact that we can all turn to different dictionaries and pick out slightly to somewhat different definitions is support for a broad scope.

15 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Many may find you naming someone as bad form, but the thought behind the post should be well received, and more in line with the type of discussion I hoped to stimulate.

Yeah, I don't see it as a bad thing either, so long as it's genuinely true information and some research has been put in to verify. Ideally research drawn from multiple reliable sources. Paul mentioned a guy in the Corinthian church who was guilty of incest, spoke of Demas and John Mark abandoning him, and John mentioned Diotrephes. Jesus told us if we had an issue with a brother to take it to them privately, then with two or three others, and if even that failed to bring it before the church as a whole. There's a precedent for it.

[FJK]

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

I'd probably say "Well, you can't be mad since we were only going by what you said in the Torah".

If Hashem is keeping us blind for some reason then we aren't responsible for our actions are we?

Ya' know, that's a kind of good point to make, and one that could actually merit some carefully serious discussion based on its own merits.

But that's just what i think, there may be those that think the opposite.

 

[OneLight]

20 hours ago, Mr. M said:

I am in full agreement with this definition, and it is exactly how I was using the word influencer in the OP. If you could move past that ...

Reread the conversation we've been having.  It was the point where you stated "Influencers are mass marketers of mammon."  Then Eman_3 and I stated that they are more than "mass marketers of mammon" and you claimed in a following response that  "All of you are redefining Influencer in a way that contradicts the OP, which then justifies stating that blanket statements are wrong. " this is what I have been addressing, no more ... no less.  I haven't once addressed anything else, so what's there for me to get past?  For some reason, all this started because others can see how people can influence us either for good or for evil, not just for evil. 

Anyway, I'm done here so you can continue discussing what your OP is really about. 

[Starise]

Reality will never meet expectations in entirety.

When that happens it can hurt and be very frustrating. 

 

[RdJ]

A busybody in the row of murderers is interesting. Heard that often in church. Don't be a busybody! It's in the same row as murder.

But what is being a busybody? It was often said when you were trying to help and yes okay it was rotten annoying, sorry, but not that bad if you ask me. Just that you treat someone like a kid. Have you not forgotten this or that? Don't be a busybody! Okay. Never mind. Later: drive the whole way back to pick it up, cause they forgot. 

I wonder what this text means. Is it a sin similar to murder? Then I would think it's about something like this:

And besides they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house, and not only idle but also gossips and busybodies, saying things which they ought not. Therefore I desire that the younger widows marry, bear children, manage the house, give no opportunity to the adversary to speak reproachfully. For some have already turned aside after Satan.
I Timothy 5:13‭-‬15 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/1ti.5.13-15.NKJV

 

It could also mean that the consequences are as bad. A murderer gets thrown into jail and if you try to help you may get bitten.

 

He who passes by and meddles in a quarrel not his own Is like one who takes a dog by the ears. 
Proverbs 26:17‭

 

We have a song from an old tv program for kids in which a woman sings: stay out of the way, it's none of your business and then a woman hits her dog and 2 kids are fighting and 2 adults fight and she sees it and just bikes on, singing do not meddle in other people's business, but then she says: if I only care about myself, then who cares about you?

[Mr. M]

2 hours ago, Starise said:

Reality will never meet expectations in entirety.

When that happens it can hurt and be very frustrating. 

 

Frustrating to the Holy Spirit that there are those who oppose a sound comprehension of scripture and the application to our lives in favor of their own "rightness".

What a revelation that there can be a positive influence in life! Such is the knowledge of good and evil, and the preference for that forbidden fruit.

I will close out the thread with a summation.

20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel,who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

Influencers, as defined by the use in the OP

 

a person who has the power to influence many people, as through social media or traditional media: Companies look for Facebook influencers who can promote their brand.

What is made clear is that anyone who promotes the notion that "we must have the latest brand name product and be willing pay full brand-name mark-up to have it is making a sacrifice to covetousness and idolatry.

How is it that their can be such ignorance to not know that the scriptures must be understood in spirit and truth? That fornication in the scriptures with regard to faithfulness to the Lord is not talking about sex!

James 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

1 John 2:15-17 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lusts of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Possibly the most grievous error promoted on the thread by my detractors is that people's money is their own and they can do what they want with it. This comes from ignorance of God's Torah, promulgated by those who do not feel the need to learn from Him, for they are not "under the Law".

Anyone who loves God's Word and has learned from it understands that the land was given to Israel as a stewardship, and remaining there was conditional by obedience and faithfulness. When the people brought in their tithes they confessed that what was being given to God belonged to Him already.

How many parables must be studied before believers understand that their judgment is centered on faithful stewardship over what they have been given, which is their very life?

1 Corinthians 6:

19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 

20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

How often people like to state that they are the Temple of God, while ignoring the rest of the verse, that they are not their own.

Finally, the part of the first post of the OP that has been widely ignored.

1 Peter 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters.

It has already been stated previously, but is worth repeating; any attempt by a Christian to influence another must be done with the utmost humility. The notion that good intentions count, and the attempt was from a desire to be a positive influence does not cut it. This too is from the knowledge of good and evil. Either you are led by the Spirit, or you are allotriepiskopos.

Thank you Starise for being slow to speak and quick to listen and consider before offering thoughts.