Are you accountable for your faith?

[Tristen]

6 hours ago, obedientFool said:

1. Consider the type of person, who appears to be the majority in society, who's easily convinced by mainstream beliefs.

2. Consider a person with a higher threshold for evidence before they might be convinced. 

What type of person is God looking for?

God is looking for those with a sincere faith in the Gospel of Christ. The fact that people arrive at that faith via different paths is less important than arriving at the truth.

 

6 hours ago, obedientFool said:

According to Jesus, our faith should be like a child's - without convincing

The "without convincing" part is your interpretation. I consider this to be a false interpretation.

Children ask questions. They are innocent an uninhibited in their trust.

 

6 hours ago, obedientFool said:

But person type 1, will believe in Jesus to the same extent they would believe in another deity, atheism, etc. Without needing to be convinced. 
Does God really want a faith without a deep root?

What you are describing is 'blind faith'. Blind faith is not Biblical.

The Bible repeatedly admonishes us to seek truth, to seek wisdom, to seek knowledge, to "test all things" (1 Thessalonians 5:21) and to have a "reason" for our hope (1 Peter 3:15).

The Bible explicitly tells us that those supposed converts with no "root" will fall away from the faith under tribulation (Mark 4:16-17).

 

6 hours ago, obedientFool said:

If person type 2, genuinely seeks for years and can't be convinced. Is it their fault for not having faith?

Given that the internal evidence from logical self-consistency, and the external evidence from sources such as textual criticism, archaeology and science, overwhelmingly support the Biblical model of reality, I would say "Yes" - the person who "can't be convinced" is operating under a strong confirmation bias. Either they are requiring an impossible (and therefore irrational) standard of evidence for God, or they are not applying the same level of scrutiny and skepticism to anti-God arguments as they are to arguments in favor of God.

So yes, a person in this position may think they are being genuine, but their seeking has not been fair-minded. They have set up intellectual filters facilitating a skewed impression of the data - against God. This may have been a result of external indoctrination - but it is still ultimately the responsibility of the individual to correct their own thinking in pursuit of truth.

The Bible tells us that God has revealed enough information about Himself to every individual - such that we are all "without excuse" (Romans 1:18-20).

 

6 hours ago, obedientFool said:

Otherwise, what good is to God if we believe just to believe? When the same low threshold for belief is easily applied elsewhere - being a matter of what belief catches your attention first. 

The Gospel does not encourage blind faith.

 

6 hours ago, obedientFool said:

The Bible says, faith comes by hearing the word of God. But the more I read, the more inconsistencies I find, with more unanswered questions, and the more I lose faith.

That is interesting - as I have had the opposite experience. The more I investigate the supposed "inconsistencies" challenging Christianity, the more my faith is confirmed.

That would anecdotally suggest to me that there is a confirmation bias influencing how each of us approaches the evidence. I would respectfully posit that you are more-so looking for reasons to reject, rather than reasons to confirm, Christianity - and therefore tend to, a) give more rational weight to anti-Christian arguments no matter how poorly supported, and b) give less rational weight to pro-Christian arguments no matter how well supported.

This bias means you are not genuinely seeking the truth, but rather looking for an outcome skewed against one particular conclusion. Bias is something you can fix.

 

[RdJ]

13 hours ago, obedientFool said:

1. Consider the type of person, who appears to be the majority in society, who's easily convinced by mainstream beliefs.

2. Consider a person with a higher threshold for evidence before they might be convinced. 

What type of person is God looking for?
According to Jesus, our faith should be like a child's - without convincing. But person type 1, will believe in Jesus to the same extent they would believe in another deity, atheism, etc. Without needing to be convinced. 
Does God really want a faith without a deep root? 

If person type 2, genuinely seeks for years and can't be convinced. Is it their fault for not having faith?
Otherwise, what good is to God if we believe just to believe? When the same low threshold for belief is easily applied elsewhere - being a matter of what belief catches your attention first. 

The Bible says, faith comes by hearing the word of God. But the more I read, the more inconsistencies I find, with more unanswered questions, and the more I lose faith.

Like a child is also humble. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humbly. So watch out with that, cause I saw that a lot when I talked to ex christians. It's easier for a child to believe cause their brain doesn't get in the way, but you're supposed to grow up and resist the devil and know his schemes. I was always very naive and childlike. A psychiater even said that. But these people who think they are normal often have no clue how naive they are, cause all people, even the most proud and evil ones, even Hitler, are naive compared to satan. 

On the other hand it's not bad to not just fall for something, because yes it's awesome if you meet God as a baby or toddler and stay with Him the rest of your life, but so many people became muslim or JW as a child and just believe their parents.

Edited March 31, 2024 by RdJ

[Wayne222]

    You need to study the Bible with prayer. Every time you study pray first. Ask for understanding and wisdom. And you must know the Bible was inspired by God. So if there are inconsistencies you must find out why. And if it affects the message. I don’t find inconsistencies myself. 

[FJK]

19 hours ago, obedientFool said:

If person type 2, genuinely seeks for years and can't be convinced. Is it their fault for not having faith?

Yes.

Because needing to be convinced by worldly facts is trying to have a fact based faith and a fact based faith is no faith at all, it is putting your faith in the things of the world instead of just accepting and putting faith in God.

 Jesus tells us that what we seek is what we find, seeking evidence from the world leads to finding the things of the world, and faith in God is not among them.

[farouk]

@FJK: I'm reminded of Hebrews 11.3: "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

[farouk]

8 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

    You need to study the Bible with prayer. Every time you study pray first. Ask for understanding and wisdom. And you must know the Bible was inspired by God. So if there are inconsistencies you must find out why. And if it affects the message. I don’t find inconsistencies myself. 

Combining prayer with the Scriptures is indeed vital; understanding by being led of the Spirit of God is crucial indeed.

[farouk]

16 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Faith comes by hearing the word of God...but it also comes by seeing.

It always astounds me people who say they see no evidence of God.

Like really? The evidence is all around is. The evidence is in the Bible. Yes, the Bible can defend itself!

 

I'm reminded of C H Spurgeon, who when asked how to defend the Bible, he replied that he would not need to defend a lion (i.e., the Word of God takes care indeed of defending itself....)

[TheBlade]

"The Bible says, faith comes by hearing the word of God. But the more I read, the more inconsistencies I find, with more unanswered questions, and the more I lose faith."

Faith like a child. Children just believe anything and everything they are told. Take what I quoted from what you said in your post. Just take what He said and believe. He said faith comes by hearing hearing  by the word of God. That's it. I don't read it for min, hours, days, weeks then ask "hmm where's the faith". We walk by faith we do not walk by what we feel and see. So He said it will come .. that's it. So just believe because He said it and know your not alone in this. Tell HIM everything you said here. Tell Him about losing faith or what ever. KNOW He will do something.. He loves you. The fact your here saying this shows.. He is working already.

There were those that saw Him face to face doing so many wonders yet still said "I know you can but do you want to" "I believe help my unbelief". Ever time He ALWAYS helped. You ask.. He will not say no.. but huge smile and YES!  Just don't think about it. Its all HIM.. you just read knowing you don't fully understand how but.. oooh He will do it. 

 

[Eli1]

  

On 3/30/2024 at 5:18 PM, obedientFool said:

The Bible says, faith comes by hearing the word of God. But the more I read, the more inconsistencies I find, with more unanswered questions, and the more I lose faith.

This is a common phrase that a lot of Churches emphasize about reading the Bible, but faith is an inward journey where you are seeking God as sort of a need, like seeking your father. 

Faith begins with this very existence we find ourselves in. In this creation, where we have eyes to see and ears to hear. You can look at this miracle and our lives and say it takes no less than a powerful Creator to put this whole thing into motion. 
And to find the answer WHY the Creator isn't here with us right now, that's when you get to the Bible to get more answers. 

But faith begins just by looking at the stars and wondering How is all this possible?

Edited April 1, 2024 by Eli1

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 3/30/2024 at 3:18 PM, obedientFool said:

1. Consider the type of person, who appears to be the majority in society, who's easily convinced by mainstream beliefs.

2. Consider a person with a higher threshold for evidence before they might be convinced. 

What type of person is God looking for?
According to Jesus, our faith should be like a child's - without convincing. But person type 1, will believe in Jesus to the same extent they would believe in another deity, atheism, etc. Without needing to be convinced. 
Does God really want a faith without a deep root? 

If person type 2, genuinely seeks for years and can't be convinced. Is it their fault for not having faith?
Otherwise, what good is to God if we believe just to believe? When the same low threshold for belief is easily applied elsewhere - being a matter of what belief catches your attention first. 

The Bible says, faith comes by hearing the word of God. But the more I read, the more inconsistencies I find, with more unanswered questions, and the more I lose faith.

Every person who ever lived and will live is 100% accountable for their faith. It's the single decider between those who go to Heaven and those who go to Hell. Those who BELIEVE in Jesus go to Heaven and those who DON'T BELIEVE in Jesus go to Hell. The Bible constantly shows that we are always responsible for our actions and beliefs. 

 

 

Evidence is NOT an issue. There is mountains of evidence for the Bible and for Jesus. People who don't believe are not lacking evidence, they are lacking common sense. Peter refers to these people as willfully ignorant, which means stupid on purpose, or people who know the truth but choose to reject it for fictions they know are false but sound better and make them feel better about themselves.