God's historic national rods of His wrath, discipline and purification of Israel and what that may portend.

[Jonathan Dane]

25 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

I agree.

The Son of Perdition I refer to is the one of 2 Thes. 2, who is brought to nothing at the Parousia of Christ. 2 Thes. 2:8 Thus well before the Beast arrives.

Judas is not mentioned at all in End Times prophecies. But you can make you case if you would like to try.

Well, Judas was certainly a "type of Christ" and who is also called the Son of Perdition (John 17:12)

Acts 17:12 (KJV) says that Judas went "to his own place."

Rev 11:7 depicts a "beast arising from the pit." Who is this beast? It cannot be Satan for he is thrown from Heaven (Rev 12).

There is a link between Judas and the Antichrist as they are the only two called the Son of Perdition." Exactly WHAT is the nature of that link remains to be seen.

2 Thess 2 depicts the Man of Sin in the temple proclaiming himself "God," which I believe coincides with the Beast arising from the pit. 

Do I believe DT is that "thing?" Not in totality. But he is the candidate.

The excerpt from my book may or may not be of interest:

 

The Antichrist shares a title with Jesus’ betrayer, Judas Iscariot. They are both called “the Son of Perdition” (see John 17:12; II Thessalonians 2:3). Might the name Judas share something in common with the name Donald Trump? (You’re getting good at answering these rhetorical questions, aren’t you?)

Judas means “praised,” and Iscariot, “man of the city.” Together they mean “Praised Man of the City,” and Trump is the ultimate example. Barbara Walters is quoted as calling him “Prince of the City.” Ernst Wilhelm Hengstenberg has suggested that Iscariot means “liar,” while others have said it comes from the Aramaic word meaning “red color.” What are the chances that all these interpretations might fit perfectly as descriptions of Donald Trump?

Aside from his infamous betrayal of Christ, what other distinctive role did Judas play as one of the twelve disciples? An insightful account is seen in John 12:3-6.

“Mary then took a pound of very costly perfume of pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped His feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But Judas Iscariot, one of His disciples, who was intending to betray Him, said, ‘Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and given to poor people?’ Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.”

Fox News host, Greg Gutfeld, said of Donald Trump, “I don’t think Trump’s a racist. The only color he sees is green.” Likewise, Judas’ only value of anything was measured only in money. It paints Judas like Trump—a pretender. He came off as one who “loves the poor people,” while all he cared about was money. He must have cringed when he saw such expensive perfume being poured onto Jesus’ feet, a perfume worth ten times the amount Judas would receive when he betrayed Jesus Christ. To use Trump’s words, Judas was a faker.

Acts 1:25 says that when Judas died, he went to the place prepared for him, just as a place also awaits the Antichrist. Isaiah 30:33 says,

“For Topheth (Hell) has long been ready, indeed, it has been prepared for the king. He has made it deep and large, a pyre of fire with plenty of wood; The breath of the LORD, like a torrent of brimstone, sets it afire.”
(RISE OF THE LITTLE HORN p. 39)

Edited April 4 by Jonathan Dane

[Charlie744]

11 minutes ago, luigi said:

Yeah, so have I been consistently speaking about Daniel, whom also the Lord speaks about in the Olivet discourse, about these same end times.

Ok, so you brought up the Olivet Discourse and you are “apparently” equating some verses in the “Discourse” that speak to some verses in “Daniel” THUS, your claim they are both end time events. 
 

Ok, now if you don’t mind, what verses in the Discourse are essentially the same in Daniel and demonstrate they are BOTH end time events?

We can take them one at a time to ensure we focus on each one before we move on to the next.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

6 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

Well, Judas was certainly a "type of Christ" and who is also called the Son of Perdition (John 17:12)

Acts 17:12 (KJV) says that Judas went "to his own place."

Rev 11:7 depicts a "beast arising from the pit."

There is a link between Judas and the Antichrist as they are the only two called the Son of Perdition." Exactly WHAT is the nature of that link remains to be seen.

2 Thess 2 depicts the Man of Sin in the temple proclaiming himself "God," which I believe coincides with the Beast arising from the pit. 

Do I believe DT is that "thing?" Not in totality. But he is the candidate.

The beast that raises from.the abyss attacks the United states and Israel.

Same as the king of the south in Daniel 11:40.It takes place 3.5 days before the US nukes Jerusalem along with the rest of the middle east.

Edited April 4 by Shilohsfoal

[WilliamL]

6 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

2 Thess 2 depicts the Man of Sin in the temple proclaiming himself "God," which I believe coincides with the Beast arising from the pit. 

Nope. This Man of Sin is destroyed at the Parousia (2:8), which is also the time of the Rapture. 1 Thes. 4:15-17

The Beast does not ascend from the Abyss (Rev. 11:7; 17:8) until after the Abyss is opened at the 5th Trumpet (Rev. 9:1-2). Whereas the raptured saints are seen in Rev. 7 in heaven (7:9ff), before the trumpets are blown.

[luigi]

18 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Ok, so you brought up the Olivet Discourse and you are “apparently” equating some verses in the “Discourse” that speak to some verses in “Daniel” THUS, your claim they are both end time events. 
 

Ok, now if you don’t mind, what verses in the Discourse are essentially the same in Daniel and demonstrate they are BOTH end time events?

We can take them one at a time to ensure we focus on each one before we move on to the next.

 

The Lord says in the Olivet discourse that when they in Jerusalem see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, for the inhabitants of Judea to then flee to the mountains (Mark 13:14). So where does the prophet Daniel speak of the abomination of Desolation? Daniel the prophet speaks about the abomination/transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:13, and Daniel 9:26-27, and Daniel 11:31. And who enacts the transgression/abomination/indignation of war desolations? The little horn, who is the beasts mouth, enacts the transgression/abomination/indignation (Daniel 8:19; 11:36) of war desolations throughout the Middle East according to his will, by bestowing on his militaries all manner of wealth (Daniel 11:30).

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Daniel 8:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 11:30 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Nope. This Man of Sin is destroyed at the Parousia (2:8), which is also the time of the Rapture. 1 Thes. 4:15-17

The Beast does not ascend from the Abyss (Rev. 11:7; 17:8) until after the Abyss is opened at the 5th Trumpet (Rev. 9:1-2). Whereas the raptured saints are seen in Rev. 7 in heaven (7:9ff), before the trumpets are blown.

The beast from the abyss attacks Jerusalem and kills the two witnesses 3.5 days before the resurrection.

That's the same day the abomination of desolation  Is placed in Jerusalem by the armed forces  of the man of sin.Evidence the abomination of desolation is used on that day is the great earthquake in Jerusalem and the cloud that ascends into heaven from Jerusalem on that day.

[Charlie744]

40 minutes ago, luigi said:

The Lord says in the Olivet discourse that when they in Jerusalem see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, for the inhabitants of Judea to then flee to the mountains (Mark 13:14). So where does the prophet Daniel speak of the abomination of Desolation? Daniel the prophet speaks about the abomination/transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:13, and Daniel 9:26-27, and Daniel 11:31. And who enacts the transgression/abomination/indignation of war desolations? The little horn, who is the beasts mouth, enacts the transgression/abomination/indignation (Daniel 8:19; 11:36) of war desolations throughout the Middle East according to his will, by bestowing on his militaries all manner of wealth (Daniel 11:30).

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Daniel 8:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 11:30 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

Ok, now I see how you are connecting these verses. 
 

But, just for my understanding, why is the AOD, which, unless I misunderstood your response, takes place at the end of time

Isn’t the AOD at the center of your interpretations for these verses? Thanks. 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Nope. This Man of Sin is destroyed at the Parousia (2:8), which is also the time of the Rapture. 1 Thes. 4:15-17

The Beast does not ascend from the Abyss (Rev. 11:7; 17:8) until after the Abyss is opened at the 5th Trumpet (Rev. 9:1-2). Whereas the raptured saints are seen in Rev. 7 in heaven (7:9ff), before the trumpets are blown.

PS

Here is where the man of sin comes to his end.Notice the verse after his end the rapture and resurrection takes place 

Daniel 11:45

And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Daniel 12:1-2

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt

 

 

#1-Man of sin comes to his end-

"yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him."

 

#2-Rapture-

"at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

#3-Resurection-

"many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt"

[Marilyn C]

On 4/2/2024 at 6:03 PM, Jonathan Dane said:

In 1500 B.C., which empire did God use to refine Israel? 
Egypt—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 722 B.C., which empire took the 10 Northern Tribes of Israel captive? 
Assyria—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 586 B.C., which empire took the Southern Kingdom of Judah into captivity? 
Babylon—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 539 B.C., which empire began its rule over the Jewish exiles? 
Media-Persia—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 187 B.C., which empire ruled during the Macobean Revolt? 
Greece—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 70 A.D., which empire destroyed Jerusalem?
Rome—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

Which nation nearly conquered the entire world and killed six million Jews during WW2? 
Germany—arguably the most powerful nation on Earth at that time. (Certainly in Europe.)

Which nations has God consistently used to discipline and purify Israel since its inception? 
The most powerful nations on Earth.

Which nation will give rise to the Antichrist, who will be God's instrument of wrath and discipline against Israel in the coming years?
The most powerful nation on Earth.

Which nation is the most powerful on Earth?

Hi Jonathan,

God`s word says that the Islamic Federation (that will form) will be the most formidable and most terrifying power this world has ever seen. Oct. 7 in Israel is but a taste. 

`After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. it was different from all the beasts that were before it.` (Dan. 7: 7) 

 

[Charlie744]

11 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Jonathan,

God`s word says that the Islamic Federation (that will form) will be the most formidable and most terrifying power this world has ever seen. Oct. 7 in Israel is but a taste. 

`After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. it was different from all the beasts that were before it.` (Dan. 7: 7) 

 

Rome.