Back To Baptism And Forward To Discipleship

[OneEyeDreamer]

On 5/11/2024 at 10:56 PM, Willa said:

Your church sounds a lot like the Disciples of Christ Christian church  that I was raised and baptized in.  They didn't believe in creeds but just said to read the Bible.  However, you would be lucky to hear any verse read in church.  There was no teaching or verses when communion was passed around, any prayers were not over the microphone so could not be heard.  There was no teaching prior to baptism.  They did teach: repent, believe, be baptized by immersion, partake of communion every Sunday.  They didn't even require that members believe that Christ has risen from the dead!  They didn't believe that He was God in human flesh but only called him God's son.  Pretty sad.  That is why I left that "nondenominational" denomination.

Welcome to Worthy.  While we are from all denominations, most of us agree on the fundamentals of the Christian faith and have a personal relationship with the Living God and our Lord God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Actually the way the non-denominational church that baptized me normally works is they have baptism classes. But I was rushed by my "GENIUS" parents into getting baptized without a baptism class so I could go overseas to get married to a girl that I didn't even have the time to get to know before i got married.  (Please detect the sarcasm.) In case you're wondering why i went overseas to get married, let's just say that someone BSed me real good by telling me that supermodels would be lining up to marry me.   Total lie by the way. A US passport only gets you so far.

The church brother responsible for my baptism only asked me a few questions about Jesus at church before agreeing to baptize me and i told them some story about something that happened to me as a child and I probably just gave Jesus the credit for my injury healing or something like that.  And that was enough for them to agree to baptize me apparently. Probably because my mom is a church goer. 

The way this non-denominational church functions is different from some churches i've been to afterwards. The classes for baptism are held upstairs and not in the worship area that we typically sit in. There's different responsible brothers who speak in church sometimes citing bible verses. But none of them have official titles like Pastor or Elder or Deacon. It makes it very hard for me to figure out who to go to for guidance.  They go to some Christian conferences quite often. and they have brothers and sisters come up to do public testimonies. But I barely received any guidance on how to properly do a testimony or the importance of the words i said.  Because a fellow brother in church told me that it's about Jesus and not me, i decided to include a bible verse like I can do all things through Christ Jesus which strengtheneth me. in my public testimony, but even though that bible verse is true. My faith is not so unwavering that I can confidently say that I can do all things through Christ Jesus which strengtheneth me. The verse is true but I wonder if my testimony is false because my faith hasn't proven to be unwavering. I even don't dare partake in communion because quite often i've ended up having arguments with the wife after partaking in communion for some odd reason. But when i don't partake in communion, i've rarely had arguments with the wife. 

The other thing that this church does is I see random people praying out loud during service time and it  is something i have never seen at other churches. The only other thing that i saw in other churches (not the non-denominational one) is people praying in tongues out loud(the entire church).  

I have even questioned whether my baptism is valid since they never told me to repent of my sins before baptism. They just kind of gave me the impression that I could keep sinning after getting baptized without consequences. Afterwards, there was a brief period where I doubted whether my baptism is valid. I also don't remember what words were mentioned during my baptism. And the really confusing thing about this church is every brother who does baptism at this church says something different during their baptizing of other people. Some people say The church baptizes you in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost into Christ Jesus and some just mention that i baptize you in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit. 

So any suggestions or tips to fix my faith in God. 

Thanks in advance for any wisdom. 

Another thing I will share about this church is it is one of the few churches I have seen that doesn't have a CROSS in the building's worship area. 

 

Edited May 14, 2024 by OneEyeDreamer
Edited

[Willa]

It sounds a little bit like a Brethren church.   Each person functions as the holy Spirit leads.  By the way, both formulas for baptism are scriptural and therefore valid as for as I can see.  However, repentance or turning away from a sinful life style to follow and trust in Jesus Christ as your God and Savior is pretty important.  

Read the New Testament noting verses that really get your attention.  

It is very common for people to have arguments on the way to church or as you have mentioned concerning communion.  The enemy delights in upsetting us or causing us to doubt, so remember that he prowls around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

 1Pe 5:8  Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 1Pe 5:9  Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 1Pe 5:10  But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

[farouk]

7 minutes ago, Willa said:

It sounds a little bit like a Brethren church.   Each person functions as the holy Spirit leads.  By the way, both formulas for baptism are scriptural and therefore valid as for as I can see.  However, repentance or turning away from a sinful life style to follow and trust in Jesus Christ as your God and Savior is pretty important.  

Read the New Testament noting verses that really get your attention.  

Hi @Willa . Acts 2.41 and 42 give a clear account of the simplicity of the stages of understanding of those in the early church who were baptized.

 

[Willa]

17 minutes ago, farouk said:

Hi @Willa . Acts 2.41 and 42 give a clear account of the simplicity of the stages of understanding of those in the early church who were baptized.

 

Act 2:38  Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Act 3:19   “Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

[Who me]

5 hours ago, OneEyeDreamer said:

So any suggestions or tips to fix my faith in God

 

May I suggest you go back to the beginning and look at what you belie and what the bible actually  teaches.

The simplist way of doing this would be to check out the Christianityexplored Web site for a church near you the either is going to run this course or has and get in touch with them.

The way this course operates is to meet in a home, have a meal, watch  a video on an aspect of Christianity  and discuss  it.

There is no compulsion  to attend church. It gives  one a chance to investigate what the Bible says, ask questions and check out the Christians running the course.

 

[OneEyeDreamer]

6 hours ago, Willa said:

It sounds a little bit like a Brethren church.   Each person functions as the holy Spirit leads.  By the way, both formulas for baptism are scriptural and therefore valid as for as I can see.  However, repentance or turning away from a sinful life style to follow and trust in Jesus Christ as your God and Savior is pretty important.  

Read the New Testament noting verses that really get your attention.  

It is very common for people to have arguments on the way to church or as you have mentioned concerning communion.  The enemy delights in upsetting us or causing us to doubt, so remember that he prowls around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

 1Pe 5:8  Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 1Pe 5:9  Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 1Pe 5:10  But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

I really do wonder how the devil manages to keep watch over so many Christians since he's not everywhere like God is. 

I've also heard a baptism method where they say something like the church baptizes you in the name of the father, son , and holy spirit into the CHRIST.  Everyone seemingly has their own formula for baptism and it introduces doubts for me. Also the bible doesn't teach a particular method for baptism or provide much detail on how to baptize people. I've heard some churches sprinkle water on top of a person's head and that is considered baptism as well.

This is what a brother in Christ told me when I was considering whether to get baptized: He told me: "you can sin if you're gay." 

My dad whispered telling me to say I'm gay. But I'm not gay.  I thought it was a joke so I said I'm gay and I kept sinning like normal (the non gay way) until i got injured in my flesh in a rather humiliating way. 

To me it sounded like I didn't need to repent. 

The way that non-denominational church works is strange to me. I often hear random people praying and crying in public during worship. This is why I don't enjoy visiting that church. Add in the fact that they're praying in a different language so i don't even understand what they're saying. The church is conducted in two different languages during the same service. One brother speaks and another translates. 

When I partake in communion, I've even gotten violent with the wife. That's not good and plus I'm the only one that actually goes to church lately.  We're both Christian but baptized in different churches. Me - full immersion  wife- sprinkling. 

[AdHoc]

On 5/14/2024 at 4:25 AM, OneEyeDreamer said:

Actually the way the non-denominational church that baptized me normally works is they have baptism classes. But I was rushed by my "GENIUS" parents into getting baptized without a baptism class so I could go overseas to get married to a girl that I didn't even have the time to get to know before i got married.  (Please detect the sarcasm.) In case you're wondering why i went overseas to get married, let's just say that someone BSed me real good by telling me that supermodels would be lining up to marry me.   Total lie by the way. A US passport only gets you so far.

The church brother responsible for my baptism only asked me a few questions about Jesus at church before agreeing to baptize me and i told them some story about something that happened to me as a child and I probably just gave Jesus the credit for my injury healing or something like that.  And that was enough for them to agree to baptize me apparently. Probably because my mom is a church goer. 

The way this non-denominational church functions is different from some churches i've been to afterwards. The classes for baptism are held upstairs and not in the worship area that we typically sit in. There's different responsible brothers who speak in church sometimes citing bible verses. But none of them have official titles like Pastor or Elder or Deacon. It makes it very hard for me to figure out who to go to for guidance.  They go to some Christian conferences quite often. and they have brothers and sisters come up to do public testimonies. But I barely received any guidance on how to properly do a testimony or the importance of the words i said.  Because a fellow brother in church told me that it's about Jesus and not me, i decided to include a bible verse like I can do all things through Christ Jesus which strengtheneth me. in my public testimony, but even though that bible verse is true. My faith is not so unwavering that I can confidently say that I can do all things through Christ Jesus which strengtheneth me. The verse is true but I wonder if my testimony is false because my faith hasn't proven to be unwavering. I even don't dare partake in communion because quite often i've ended up having arguments with the wife after partaking in communion for some odd reason. But when i don't partake in communion, i've rarely had arguments with the wife. 

The other thing that this church does is I see random people praying out loud during service time and it  is something i have never seen at other churches. The only other thing that i saw in other churches (not the non-denominational one) is people praying in tongues out loud(the entire church).  

I have even questioned whether my baptism is valid since they never told me to repent of my sins before baptism. They just kind of gave me the impression that I could keep sinning after getting baptized without consequences. Afterwards, there was a brief period where I doubted whether my baptism is valid. I also don't remember what words were mentioned during my baptism. And the really confusing thing about this church is every brother who does baptism at this church says something different during their baptizing of other people. Some people say The church baptizes you in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost into Christ Jesus and some just mention that i baptize you in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit. 

So any suggestions or tips to fix my faith in God. 

Thanks in advance for any wisdom. 

Another thing I will share about this church is it is one of the few churches I have seen that doesn't have a CROSS in the building's worship area. 

 

When God made man he required only two things from the man. (i) That the man would be in His image and likeness, and (ii) that the man would subdue and then rule the earth and all that is in it (Gen.1:26-28). To accomplish this God commanded a man to eat form all the Trees save one. After the fall of man, God's salvation has thse two components in it. In John 3:3-5 God, speaking to a top religionist, Nicodemus, said that he did not need more laws, but that he needed  (i) a another additional birth, and (ii) he needd to go down into water and come out of water again.

The new, additional and divine birth by the Holy Spirit was to infuse God's life and nature into the man. Then, this man, who had become partaker of the divine nature, was to count himself as dead a buried in the death waters, and as having come out of them as new creature. But the water immersion was not for a new life, but was needed to enter the Kingdom. A born again man would SEE the Kingdom but the born again man who was immersed would ENTER the Kingdom. Moses was born to the line of Abraham, but because or disobedience, he could stand on the wilderness side of Jordan and SEE Israel's inheritance, but could not ENTER it.

A study of Christ's work will show that He paved the way for salvation and this salvation was for free by FAITH. But to complete God's plan to subdue and rule the earth God needed those of royal BIRTH to be OBEDIENT. David was God's favorite King. Why? Because he obeyed the Lord in all that was asked except the case of Bathsheba (1. Ki.15:5). Conversely, in Matthew Chapter 7:21-23 we see very capable men refused entry to the Kingdom because of disobedience.

I could write 6 pages on 6 aspects of Baptism. But all the knowledge in the world will not make up for your heart. Baptism is a command. It is the first command you receive after you are reborn. You did it. It is done. You were obedient. Great! You do not have to have knowledge to be obedient. That will come later. Paul was Baptized after three days. The Eunuch in Acts Chapter 8 was baptized in an hour. You have fulfilled the first and most crucial requirement for ENTERING the Kingdom. Keep it up!

[AnOrangeCat]

On 5/13/2024 at 9:25 PM, OneEyeDreamer said:

have even questioned whether my baptism is valid since they never told me to repent of my sins before baptism. They just kind of gave me the impression that I could keep sinning after getting baptized without consequences. Afterwards, there was a brief period where I doubted whether my baptism is valid. I also don't remember what words were mentioned during my baptism. And the really confusing thing about this church is every brother who does baptism at this church says something different during their baptizing of other people. Some people say The church baptizes you in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost into Christ Jesus and some just mention that i baptize you in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit. 

So any suggestions or tips to fix my faith in God. 

Thanks in advance for any wisdom. 

I personally feel like your baptism is valid, but if you feel like doing it again elsewhere to ease your worries there's no harm in it. In the end it's not so much about what person and what church you're baptized in or what words are said so much as what it is between you and God. He sees your heart and knows if you're being serious about it. The fact that you've personally noted repentance and taken an issue with their lack of instruction on that suggests to me that you do understand.

Regarding fixing your faith, I'll start by saying what I'm about to say is said in love and based on my observations and experiences. It's not intended to be mean or anything. It seems to me based on your post that you might be making more out of certain things than they are and getting unduly worried over them. Like I said the words don't really matter. There's no Biblical commandment saying "When you baptize someone say this and that." Similarly there's probably no real connection between taking communion and the arguments with your wife. I've had some issues with OCD and anxiety in the past and have spoken with others who do, and it sometimes manifests as the kind of worry you seem to be experiencing.

Your faith might actually be fine at your current state. Peter wavered when he walked on the water with Jesus. He wavered when he denied Jesus. Despite that he was crucial in the initial stages of the church. Philippians 1:6 tells us that God is faithful to bring the good work he began in us to completion. That means we're all works in progress. We'll grow at different rates. The way I see it as long as we live our earthly lives we're going to have to deal with some level of anxiety and doubt when it comes to spiritual things. It's normal, and it gets better as you experience God pulling through for you. When we do what God would have us do regardless of what our feelings and circumstances tell us we're backing up our faith with works like James says we should.

[Cntrysner]

On 5/13/2024 at 9:25 PM, OneEyeDreamer said:

I have even questioned whether my baptism is valid since they never told me to repent of my sins before baptism. They just kind of gave me the impression that I could keep sinning after getting baptized without consequences.

Before salvation we are lost and without hope because we are sinners and as long as we are in the flesh we will remain a sinner even after salvation. With the knowledge that we are without hope and there is nothing we can do, including water baptism, we can then turn to God who will give us hope in Christ Jesus.

 

On 5/13/2024 at 9:25 PM, OneEyeDreamer said:

Afterwards, there was a brief period where I doubted whether my baptism is valid. I also don't remember what words were mentioned during my baptism. And the really confusing thing about this church is every brother who does baptism at this church says something different during their baptizing of other people.

 There has always been confusion about water baptism, the timing, the method, it's effectiveness or is it just symbolic but there is simplicity in Christ.

 

On 5/13/2024 at 9:25 PM, OneEyeDreamer said:

Some people say The church baptizes you in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost into Christ Jesus and some just mention that i baptize you in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit. 

 The church or a man does not have the power to baptize into Christ because it is an operation of God by the Spirit to the inner man. We receive salvation by faith in the finished work of Christ, His death burial and resurrection and in His shed blood for eternal remission of sins. His Spirirt in us through faith will turn us away from sin.

[Prycejosh1987]

Discipleship is something which comes persistently and with discipline. Its not through certain practices but comes through honest moments and the ability to improvise and have naturalised love towards Jesus. Understanding Jesus is understanding love.