God made us, doesnt he OWE us heaven???

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

There is no doubt that the Lord Himself spoke of Hell and the nature of it.

The teaching of eternal torment was not developed until long after the death of the Apostles.

It was not until the year 553 and the Council of Constantinople in the time of Justinian that the teaching of everlasting torture in hell became an official doctrine of the Catholic Church.

This is just flat out wrong.

We see early on way prior to the institution of the Catholic Church as it is now known. The Doctrinal Truth of Hell.

Mt

[Tari]

There are some very crazy religions out there nowadays. People can be vulnerable and fall prey to them and their strange teachings. It is important for people to do research about the religion or church they are getting involved with. Try to compare their teachings with what you read in the Bible. If the teaching seems far fetched and doesn't seem to match up with the gospel (along with what Christ taught) then it should raise a red flag. People need to be careful about being vulnerable.

[EricH]

Daughter,

Actually God did create us for friendship with Him. In the beginning we were able to walk and talk with God. We were in His immediate presence. But we made a terrible decision. We decided that it was not good enough to be with God. We wanted to become like God.

Once that occured, God removed us from His immediate presence. Once we were removed from His presence, physical death entered the picture. Our relationship with God was not broken by God, it was boken by us.

But God loved us so much that He took the intiative to make a way for us to get back in right relationship with Him, so we can experience eternity with Him again. God came to earth in the person of Jesus and took the justice that we deserved. He suffered for the sins we commit that separate us from God.

So God owes us punishment. But He decided to take it Himself so that we can experience heaven. It is outrageous grace

[Christ's Free Servant]

God made us. So doesnt he owe us heaven then? He brought us into this world after all. It seems unfair that if we then reject life we will burn in hell eternally, i mean shouldnt there be a 3rd option? Like death? I mean he made us, we didnt ask to be born, so then if we reject life, doesnt it seem unfair to punish us eternally???

God doesn't OWE us anything. He is God! We OWE him EVERYTHING!

[eric]

Well.DoK, you asked and you have been answered in no uncertain terms, and this is what WB is all about. Keep reading your bible.

cheers,

e.

[Smalcald]

Well there is contradicting descriptions of hell in scripture.

There are descriptions of hell being a place of eternal torment there is also places which describe hell as simply eternal destruction, also places which describe it as an outer blackness forever.

So I mean I don't think our descriptions or conceptions are adequate, except that we don't want to go down that path. I don

[other one]

Doesn't anyone know how to use the PM feature around here to ask the Mods administrative questions?

Neb, knowing dad earnie from his posts, I think this was just a statement for all in "his way" and was not really meant for the mods....... A bit tacky I would agree, but well you know......

[yomotalking]

But.....it says in the Bible that hell is a place of eternal torment....and christians have given testimonies of going to hell and witnessing people in hell being tortured and burning.

Really? Which christians would they be?

Christians that Jesus has shown then hell.

Kathrin Somebody.

Read her book.

Not nice account!

[Pilgrim7]

Wow!

I quote:

Hey mods, where do we keep getting these flakes?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Dear Dad Ernie,

I quote Scripture and you call me a flake. You have judged me and the Scripture. I could quote much more Scripture to make my point than you could to make yours, yet I'm the flake?

I don't need to stoop to such childishness to prove the truth of the Scriptures. Study a little history and realize that the doctrine of eternal torture started in Babylon, the mother of all Idolatry. The word hell is not a christian word, it was a pagan word. Look at your Greek. "Gehenna of fire" is what Christ refered to when He spoke of it. It was a valley near Jerusalem where they bruned their trash, including dead bodies. It is not eternal, if fact it is not there any more. The Scripture says in Jude that Sodom and Ghomorah was burned with eternal fire, yet it is not burning today. So much for eternal fire and torture.

You all seem to want a God who is an eternal torturer. So be it. You can have him. I choose the God of Love. There are many more verses in the Bible that speak of the death and destruction of the wicked. The ones that speak of punishment in the lake of fire are very few and due to a misunderstanding of the Greek became eternal torture. Yes, there is torment, but it is a fixed period of time proportional to our sins, just what one would expect from a just God of love.

I see that no one will speak to the scriptures quoted, but just give their own opinions. I learned this from no man nor religion, but from the Scriptures through the Holy Spirit. The overwhelming testimony of Scripture is that the wages of sin is death. I go with the overwhelming testimony of Scripture. You all are free to teach a cruel, vengeful God if you wish.

Just one question, how do you reconcile a God of Love with a God of eternal torture? Most rational people must just shake their heads. I have found it much easier to bring people to a God of love, and a God of fairness. Even sinful man knows that the punishment should fit the crime.

Here is one of your favorite verses:

Jn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For those who want the truth look up the Greek for 'perish'. It means to be destroyed, to cease to be.

God bless,

Dennis

[EricH]

Wow!

I quote:

Hey mods, where do we keep getting these flakes?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Dear Dad Ernie,

I quote Scripture and you call me a flake. You have judged me and the Scripture. I could quote much more Scripture to make my point than you could to make yours, yet I'm the flake?

I don't need to stoop to such childishness to prove the truth of the Scriptures. Study a little history and realize that the doctrine of eternal torture started in Babylon, the mother of all Idolatry. The word hell is not a christian word, it was a pagan word. Look at your Greek. "Gehenna of fire" is what Christ refered to when He spoke of it. It was a valley near Jerusalem where they bruned their trash, including dead bodies. It is not eternal, if fact it is not there any more. The Scripture says in Jude that Sodom and Ghomorah was burned with eternal fire, yet it is not burning today. So much for eternal fire and torture.

You all seem to want a God who is an eternal torturer. So be it. You can have him. I choose the God of Love. There are many more verses in the Bible that speak of the death and destruction of the wicked. The ones that speak of punishment in the lake of fire are very few and due to a misunderstanding of the Greek became eternal torture. Yes, there is torment, but it is a fixed period of time proportional to our sins, just what one would expect from a just God of love.

I see that no one will speak to the scriptures quoted, but just give their own opinions. I learned this from no man nor religion, but from the Scriptures through the Holy Spirit. The overwhelming testimony of Scripture is that the wages of sin is death. I go with the overwhelming testimony of Scripture. You all are free to teach a cruel, vengeful God if you wish.

Just one question, how do you reconcile a God of Love with a God of eternal torture? Most rational people must just shake their heads. I have found it much easier to bring people to a God of love, and a God of fairness. Even sinful man knows that the punishment should fit the crime.

Here is one of your favorite verses:

Jn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For those who want the truth look up the Greek for 'perish'. It means to be destroyed, to cease to be.

God bless,

Dennis

I removed the post from where you obtained the above quote. I apologize that we did not catch it sooner. The tone was inappropriate. Please forgive us for missing it.

Love in Christ

Eric