Counted Worthy to Escape

[Sower]

1 hour ago, RdJ said:

I had a dream in 2000 or so. The whole church (well that's what it represented) was laying on the floor of a huge old fashioned church building, asleep and then people got up. My ex and I got up too. We were married then. I saw that the Bridegroom and bride were in front of the door of a building where you marry, they had already gone up the stairs and I said to him: Look! They're about to get married! And he said, like he always said: Nooooo that will take at least 100 years. (because we would first get revival and Jesus wouldnt come back for a handful). I said: But look! And then he looked outside and he saw it too and we went outside, but first I talked to people in the hall and I thought: oh no those are the foolish virgins and we went to the mall and I saw a girl from my primary school from a very strict reformed church, people from my old church and a lot of others and everyone was evangelizing, they were not really open, we didnt get revival and then we went downstairs where the trains are and a train came, we stepped in and immediately off it went.

It is rare I remember a dream, and the ones I do remember  typically reflect a hodgepodge of what has happened that day.
You must have some really vivid dreams to remember the entire thing.

I honestly have absolutely no concern/worry about when the Lord's return is. I do believe it is soon, though.
Soon, as before I finish this typing, or, later as in when my great grand kids are adults.
It doesn't matter in that I will be doing that which I'm doing now, the works God gave me to do.
And sharing the good news. It is interesting to listen to what others, those who study His return, guesstimate the date.

Good works, Sow seed, Love the Lord, and love my neighbor. A no brainer..   (And be not anxious for ANYTHING!)

                   "He that winneth souls is wise"...

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[Marathoner]

Our only "escape" is that we will not be condemned with the world, referenced in 1 Corinthians 11:23-32. The last verse of that passage:

But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. (verse 32 NASB)

That's what we escape, my friends. We are not subject to the wrath to come, something which Pharisees and Sadducees alike sought to flee from (Matthew 3). The Lord deals with us --- not tomorrow nor during the age to come, but right now while it is still today. This is so we will not be condemned along with the world. 

[Neighbor]

Escape? Like was told  the man  at Luke 12:20 - Do you not know your soul may be required of you this night? It doesn't matter the timing of my Lord's soon return.

I have need to be ready and readied for my own personal departure at any moment, as though there is no such thing as time, or a right timing of events in my life.

My hope for my own readiness is certain for it is placed in Christ Jesus. 

[RdJ]

But what about the rest? Even if I wouldn't make it who cares Ken Peters said he felt nothing when they cut his head off. It's of course more cosy if that doesnt have to happen, but there's also a church in Revelation that has to die. But what about the lost.. I once really thought that I had been raptured when I was praying for atheists and I thought: oh no! My sister! We always prayed with church: Lord stay away for a bit because so many people are not saved yet. But when you look at Israel and the world hmm well luckily in Germany they still pay with cash and the system isn't in place yet. But it's easy talking in the West. I can imagine that the persecuted church prays Lord come quickly.

[Dennis1209]

4 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Indeed!  The theology I ascribe to says we are eternally saved by faith in Christ alone - this is our foundation - and then there is accountability for how we build.  At the Bema there are rewards given and I think there will be some shame for those who haven't run the race or matured in Christ well.  Yet, those at the Bema are still children of God, with His life in them eternally, but again, there will be a measure of accountability as to how His children have built according to His will (or not).  Therefore, many of the future promises God makes to us have some conditions with them.

So my theology also extends these conditions to the rapture. That is, the Christian life is about growing in the grace (favored supply of Christ in us) we've been given.  Living things are meant to grow properly and mature into full grown. Some plants mature/ripen faster (first fruits) and others mature & ripen more slowly.  The ones maturing first will be reaped first, and the others will be taken in the general harvest.

So yes, I see the accountability/maturity principle extending to the rapture - not all will go in one reaping (i.e., the harvest in Rev 14:14-16) - some ripen earlier, which I believe Paul exhorts us in multiple places to be diligent about (diligent to let Him operate in and through us).

CC:  @Sower

The partial rapture theory is still a pretribulation view, albeit a minority view popularized in the 1800s. I can find no mention of it by the Anti-Nicene fathers. In the historical time frame, that theory is a newcomer. In other words, it is not the majority's traditional view, not that the majority has a license of what theology is correct.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Several questions must be asked:

(1) Does every Christian love the Lord as commanded? Are there various degrees of love and commitment? What is the single requirement for eternal life?

(2) What is the biblical definition of maturity? Will a new Christian still on the milk of the Word, not mature, be left behind to suffer and stew through the tribulation?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

(3) Are we appointed to the wrath of God? No. What is the Tribulation? The wrath of God.

Those holding that minority view are in good company with George H. Lang, John Nelson Darby, G. H. Pember, and C. I. Scofield—excellent theologians and fine men of God. The view appears to have been adopted from England's Open Brethren and Plymouth Brethren movements.

I can see the scriptural argument (and a good one) for a partial harpazo. But my exegesis and what I see as a biblical preponderance of evidence suggest that everyone goes up at the trumpet, the voice of the archangel, and the shout of God.

I adhere to the following:

The partial Rapture view is represented in figure 10.6. This particular viewpoint is rare. The general idea is that when a believer is spiritually mature enough they will be caught up to meet the Lord. At first, it will be a host of believers, who will be eagerly waiting and watching for the Lord, that are said to be caught up all at once. Then the rest of the believers will be caught up throughout the Tribulation as they mature in their faith.

This view is based on a misunderstanding of passages that seem to make watchfulness a condition for being raptured. The passages that are said to teach this include Luke 21:34–36; Matt. 24:36–44; Heb. 9:28; Phil. 3:11; 2 Tim. 4:8; 1 Thess. 1:10. A careful examination of these texts demonstrates that some of them are referring to the Second Coming and not the Rapture (Luke 21:34–36; Matt. 24:36–44). Even the passages that do refer to the Rapture are not teaching that if you fail to watch you will not be caught up to meet the Lord. These verses are simply challenging believers to watch for the return of the Lord for His people. To say otherwise is to read more into the text than what is written.^[1] 

 

---

^[1] J. B. Hixson and Mark Fontecchio, What Lies Ahead: A Biblical Overview of the End Times (Brenham, TX: Lucid Books, 2013), 193.

[TheBlade]

18 minutes ago, RdJ said:

But what about the rest? Even if I wouldn't make it who cares Ken Peters said he felt nothing when they cut his head off. It's of course more cosy if that doesnt have to happen, but there's also a church in Revelation that has to die. But what about the lost.. I once really thought that I had been raptured when I was praying for atheists and I thought: oh no! My sister! We always prayed with church: Lord stay away for a bit because so many people are not saved yet. But when you look at Israel and the world hmm well luckily in Germany they still pay with cash and the system isn't in place yet. But it's easy talking in the West. I can imagine that the persecuted church prays Lord come quickly.

I know about Ken Peters and where he is now but he has not talked about this.. for decades. He never talks about it there is a reason for this and I will not say more.  What's coming is not going to be based on someone's dream. During that time something is different then it is right now. Right now the enemy can not come out in the open has no power what so ever over the saints yet during the great tribulation he will. The holy Spirit will be taken out of the way. 

I know in my daily walk I can walk be unworthy yet saved. I think Eph talks about this as in walk worth concerning your call. I make my own choices and He never goes against them so for me if I am not watching not ready do not believe, well there is no one on this earth that can promise I will if Christ came now, no one. Some say all will go some say few some on and on. I can't put my faith in this I agree with, love or even disagree with. I look and read and study and find it's best to be ready now. No pre no mid no post I am ready now and I will never miss Him. I will always repent so that nothing is between me and Christ.

Oh and I LOVE what Ken Peters has shared yet something changed. Does not mean what he saw was not real I just can put a dream above the word of GOD

[RdJ]

3 minutes ago, TheBlade said:

I know about Ken Peters and where he is now but he has not talked about this.. for decades. He never talks about it there is a reason for this and I will not say more.  What's coming is not going to be based on someone's dream. During that time something is different then it is right now. Right now the enemy can not come out in the open has no power what so ever over the saints yet during the great tribulation he will. The holy Spirit will be taken out of the way. 

I know in my daily walk I can walk be unworthy yet saved. I think Eph talks about this as in walk worth concerning your call. I make my own choices and He never goes against them so for me if I am not watching not ready do not believe, well there is no one on this earth that can promise I will if Christ came now, no one. Some say all will go some say few some on and on. I can't put my faith in this I agree with, love or even disagree with. I look and read and study and find it's best to be ready now. No pre no mid no post I am ready now and I will never miss Him. I will always repent so that nothing is between me and Christ.

Oh and I LOVE what Ken Peters has shared yet something changed. Does not mean what he saw was not real I just can put a dream above the word of GOD

He's in heaven, but I read that he had said that he still believed it, but he didn't talk about it anymore because others didnt. My faith is not based on just his dream. I see it in the Bible too and yes always be ready and pray that you're worthy but I pray that also for others who are not saved or who can't go to church. I'm more worried about them. What if it is true that Hosea He revives Israel in 2 days means 2000 years and what if it is true that this generation shall not pass means the one that saw WWI and WWII? If God would tell me the rapture is next week I would not mind screaming like the woman whose dog got attacked by a bear that everyone has to get saved now. If it takes another 10 years you can do it a bit more sophisticated and ask God to lead.

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, luigi said:

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Yes all - Israel needed to watch because they are in darkness, and the Body of Christ needs to watch to see the day approaching.

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Indeed!  The theology I ascribe to says we are eternally saved by faith in Christ alone - this is our foundation - and then there is accountability for how we build.  At the Bema there are rewards given and I think there will be some shame for those who haven't run the race or matured in Christ well.  Yet, those at the Bema are still children of God, with His life in them eternally, but again, there will be a measure of accountability as to how His children have built according to His will (or not).  Therefore, many of the future promises God makes to us have some conditions with them.

So my theology also extends these conditions to the rapture. That is, the Christian life is about growing in the grace (favored supply of Christ in us) we've been given.  Living things are meant to grow properly and mature into full grown. Some plants mature/ripen faster (first fruits) and others mature & ripen more slowly.  The ones maturing first will be reaped first, and the others will be taken in the general harvest.

So yes, I see the accountability/maturity principle extending to the rapture - not all will go in one reaping (i.e., the harvest in Rev 14:14-16) - some ripen earlier, which I believe Paul exhorts us in multiple places to be diligent about (diligent to let Him operate in and through us).

CC:  @Sower

The Body of Christ will be taken when it comes to `the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the fullness of Christ;..` (Eph. 4: 13)

That is not referring to individual maturity, but for the whole Body to each be standing for all or some of the great truths of Christ. 

[RdJ]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Yes all - Israel needed to watch because they are in darkness, and the Body of Christ needs to watch to see the day approaching.

Part of the body can be in darkness too. If you hate your brother you're in darkness. Revelation warns the lukewarm, those who live in sin or lost their first love. You can talk about the church as if that's only the faithful church that will be kept, but don't leave the rest out. Some will not wake up, but others you can warn and pluck out of the fire. I had that rapture dream in 2000. In 2009 I was living in sin, full of hate. There are backsliders who need to come back and people who have to be warned to not backslide.