When was Satan cast out of heaven down to the earth?

[Vine Abider]

59 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Here is a thought for consideration:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Advocate—(Gr. parakletos), one who pleads another’s cause, who helps another by defending or comforting him. It is a name given by Christ three times to the Holy Ghost (John 14:16; 15:26; 16:7, where the Greek word is rendered “Comforter,” q.v.). It is applied to Christ in 1 John 2:1, where the same Greek word is rendered “Advocate,” the rendering which it should have in all the places where it occurs. Tertullus “the orator” (Acts 24:1) was a Roman advocate whom the Jews employed to accuse Paul before Felix.

Our Lord is a legalist, thus the Ten Commandments, seven seal scroll, and other examples. An advocate would be akin to a defense attorney when accused of a crime, in this case, sin. Is our Father in Heaven accusing us of our sins? No. Therefore, it must be someone else accusing us; why do we need an advocate between the accuser and us? Did anyone with faith have an advocate before the Father before Christ finished His work on the cross?

In my opinion, there was war in Heaven, Satan and his one third of followers, are not cast out of Heaven permanently until mid-tribulation, then Satan knows his time is short. Satan continues his accusations until Rev. 12:10, mid-tribulation.

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Yes, Satan being cast out midtrib is my thought too.  The woman flees and is nourished 3 1/2 years, so this seems to line up.

My timeline (won't give references here, but can add if anyone wants)

Man of sin makes treaty for peace with Israel for 7 years. And then halfway thru 7 years:

> He receives a death blow

> The man child is taken to heaven & devil is evicted to the earth

> Devil (cast to earth) animates slain man of sin & he returns to life - breaks treaty with Israel and sets himself up as God

> Woman flees into wilderness for the 2nd half of 7 years

> Supernatural calamities begin - God judging & repeatedly trying to get men to repent 

 

[1to3]

21 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

I disagree, because the Lord said they were there when He laid “the foundation of the earth”

 

Where wast thou when I laid “the foundations of the earth?”declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are “the foundations” thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and “all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

In the Genesis account “the foundation of the earth”was already laid “before”the 4th day.

Genesis 1

King James Version

1 In the beginning God created “the heaven and the earth.”

2 And “the earth”was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

 

 

 

 

If we reason using Gods Word;

In the beginning was God, + Father Son Holy Spirit.They Are ONE and  not created.

Then God began Creation

The angels were created within the six Day of Creation.

When God created the angels He had to created a place to place them in

God had to first set the heavens so to place the angels.

The angels are also refereed to as stars in the bible And in the bible in the first chapter of Genesis it mentions the creation time in sequence.

( However you want to reason, the angels were created within the days of Gods CREATION)

The stars were created  on day 4

Genesis chapter 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

² And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

³ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

⁴ And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

⁵ And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

⁶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

⁷ And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

⁸ And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

⁹ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

¹⁰ And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

¹¹ And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

¹² And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

¹³ And the evening and the morning were the third day.

¹⁴ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

¹⁵ And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

¹⁶ And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also.

¹⁷ And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

¹⁸ And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

¹⁹ And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

²⁰ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

²¹ And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

²² And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

²³ And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

²⁴ And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

²⁵ And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

²⁶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

²⁷ So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

²⁸ And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

²⁹ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

³⁰ And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

³¹ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

24 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Yes, Satan being cast out midtrib is my thought too.  The woman flees and is nourished 3 1/2 years, so this seems to line up.

My timeline (won't give references here, but can add if anyone wants)

What verse of scripture says there is a 7 year tribulation, please provide.

24 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Man of sin makes treaty for peace with Israel for 7 years. And then halfway thru 7 years:

Show me the verse that says the “man of sin” makes a peace treaty with Israel for 7 years.

24 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

> He receives a death blow
> The man child is taken to heaven & devil is evicted to the earth

Show me where it is written that the dead and living in Christ are raised up BEFORE “the last day”at the “last trump”

24 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

> Devil (cast to earth) animates slain man of sin & he returns to life - breaks treaty with Israel and sets himself up as God

Show me in scripture where the Devil has “the power of life”to raise up the dead.

24 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

> Woman flees into wilderness for the 2nd half of 7 years

Show me by scripture WHEN this 1,260 days begins

24 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

> Supernatural calamities begin - God judging & repeatedly trying to get men to repent 

 

Show me by scripture WHEN this great tribulation and wrath upon the world begins.

Will be waiting ….😊

[Stewardofthemystery]

11 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

If we reason using Gods Word;

In the beginning was God, + Father Son Holy Spirit.They Are ONE and  not created.

Then God began Creation

The angels were created within the six Day of Creation.

When God created the angels He had to created a place to place them in

God had to first set the heavens so to place the angels.

The angels are also refereed to as stars in the bible And in the bible in the first chapter of Genesis it mentions the creation time in sequence.

( However you want to reason, the angels were created within the days of Gods CREATION)

The stars were created  on day 4

Genesis chapter 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

² And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

³ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

⁴ And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

⁵ And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

⁶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

⁷ And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

⁸ And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

⁹ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

¹⁰ And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

¹¹ And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

¹² And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

¹³ And the evening and the morning were the third day.

¹⁴ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

¹⁵ And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

¹⁶ And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also.

¹⁷ And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

¹⁸ And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

¹⁹ And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

²⁰ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

²¹ And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

²² And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

²³ And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

²⁴ And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

²⁵ And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

²⁶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

²⁷ So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

²⁸ And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

²⁹ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

³⁰ And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

³¹ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

 

Job 38 is God’s Word about Him laying the “cornerstone”and the foundation FOR the earth to built upon.  God tells us the sons of God (the angels) were present to behold it.  So why argue against what God has said, after all God was there, He would know.😊

[Last Daze]

5 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

What verse of scripture says there is a 7 year tribulation, please provide.

Show me the verse that says the “man of sin” makes a peace treaty with Israel for 7 years.

Show me where it is written that the dead and living in Christ are raised up BEFORE “the last day”at the “last trump”

That can be found in the book of Assumptions.  It's written between the lines.  It helps to use a mirror and turn the book upside down.

[Stewardofthemystery]

1 minute ago, Last Daze said:

That can be found in the book of Assumptions.  It's written between the lines.  It helps to use a mirror and turn the book upside down.

It is some of that smoke and mirrors doctrine eh? 😂 

[Vine Abider]

49 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

What verse of scripture says there is a 7 year tribulation, please provide.

Show me the verse that says the “man of sin” makes a peace treaty with Israel for 7 years.

Show me where it is written that the dead and living in Christ are raised up BEFORE “the last day”at the “last trump”

Show me in scripture where the Devil has “the power of life”to raise up the dead.

Show me by scripture WHEN this 1,260 days begins

Show me by scripture WHEN this great tribulation and wrath upon the world begins.

Will be waiting ….😊

Say "please."

[Stewardofthemystery]

13 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Say "please."

Are you having trouble finding those verses? 😊

[Charlie744]

52 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

If we reason using Gods Word;

In the beginning was God, + Father Son Holy Spirit.They Are ONE and  not created.

Then God began Creation

The angels were created within the six Day of Creation.

When God created the angels He had to created a place to place them in

God had to first set the heavens so to place the angels.

The angels are also refereed to as stars in the bible And in the bible in the first chapter of Genesis it mentions the creation time in sequence.

( However you want to reason, the angels were created within the days of Gods CREATION)

The stars were created  on day 4

Genesis chapter 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

² And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

³ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

⁴ And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

⁵ And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

⁶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

⁷ And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

⁸ And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

⁹ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

¹⁰ And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

¹¹ And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

¹² And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

¹³ And the evening and the morning were the third day.

¹⁴ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

¹⁵ And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

¹⁶ And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also.

¹⁷ And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

¹⁸ And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

¹⁹ And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

²⁰ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

²¹ And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

²² And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

²³ And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

²⁴ And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

²⁵ And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

²⁶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

²⁷ So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

²⁸ And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

²⁹ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

³⁰ And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

³¹ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

 

I have looked at this as there was only one place that existed - it was where God resides. Because He had yet to create everything outside of His presence, the angels were created before this.  They were created in heaven to serve Him.

God decided to create a space and time outside of His presence. And this is what we see - the physical universe and of course the earth and mankind.

It is only after God created man and the “outside” of His presence would there be anything for satan to be concerned or jealous about. He was the top angel (although God knew what was in his heart prior to Him creating the world).

But when God created man AND breathed into him Gods own holiness, this was too much for satan - he may still be the top angel but he was not given God’s holiness within him. This of course, trumped the status of any angel. He had to do something immediately. 
 

And this brings us to the fall in the Garden. Once Adam sinned through the deception of Satan, both would have to be removed from heaven and the Garden. 
 
For me, the most compelling reason for the timing of both to be removed from the presence of God is their sin. 
 

Both Adam and Satan would still live but both spiritual dead. Both would still have access to God but not in heaven / Garden. Sin and God cannot be in the same place. 
 
Now, there maybe verses in the Scriptures that can or are interpreted that Satan met with God (Job) or that he might be cast out at a later time (Revelation), but there is no way to get beyond the fact that God can not be in the presence of sin.

1) Are we sure the latter verses in the Scriptures (Revelation) are referring to the casting down or out of satan in the future, or are they speaking to our history (Garden event)?

The wording or translations in Scripture are very confusing at times. And, many have been constructed to ensure a certain interpretation, so it is necessary to look at all the verses that speak to this topic and determine they all speak the same message… again, start at the beginning verses which I think are the easiest and safest verses to interpret.

2) Is it a possibility that in the latter verses where God and satan do meet, that he meets with Jesus and not God the Father? 
This might be consistent with the argument that was mentioned that both Adam and satan were removed but were not killed after they sinned, but both would die. 
  

Thus, mankind, could no longer see God or he would immediately die. Likewise, once satan was removed from heaven, he would also immediately be destroyed if he were to see God. 
 

Which brings us to the question that, despite the previous sentence, man did see God and did not die- in the form of the Messiah. Therefore, satan could see God outside of heaven in t he form of Jesus and also not die (Job). 
 
Just my latest thoughts.. Charlie 

 

 

 

 

 

[BlindSeeker]

On 6/13/2024 at 9:53 PM, Charlie744 said:

I am going to leave this one alone... 

Why? Isn't it a valid biblical question?

1 Tim 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, [God was] justified in the Spirit, [God was] seen of angels, [God] preached unto the Gentiles, [God was] believed on in the world, [God was] received up into glory.