When was the A.O.D fulfilled?

[BlindSeeker]

Josephus – Wars Book 6 – Chap. 2 – para. 1

HOW TITUS PERSUADED JOSEPHUS TO EXHORT THE JEWS AGAIN [TO A SURRENDER]

"…I dare venture to promise that the Romans shall still forgive you. And take notice that I, who make this exhortation to thee, am one of your own nation; I, who am a Jew, do make this promise to thee. And it will become you to consider who I am that gives you this counsel, and whence I am derived; for while I am alive I shall never be in such slavery, as to forego my own kindred, or forget the laws of our forefathers. You have indignation at me again, and make a clamor at me, and reproach me; indeed I cannot deny that I am worthy of worse treatment than all this amounts to, because, in opposition to fate do I make this kind invitation to you, and endeavor to force deliverance upon those whom God has condemned. For who is there that does not know what the writings of the ancient prophets contain in them, – and particularly that oracle which is just now going to be fulfilled upon this miserable city? For they foretold that this city should be then taken when somebody shall begin the slaughter of his own countrymen. And are not both the city and the entire temple now full of the dead bodies of your countrymen? It is God, therefore, it is God himself who is bringing on this fire, to purge that city and temple by means of the Romans, and is going to pluck up this city, which is full of your pollutions."

[BlindSeeker]

On 6/17/2024 at 8:25 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Showing indeed that the overall passage is speaking about 70 captivities.
4,900 years worth of time of the people of Israel in captivity.

 

1967 through to 2037 will prove to have been yet another captivity, perhaps one of the last.

I can't accept the "70 captivities [or the] 4,900 years worth of time of the people of Israel in captivity."

Nor at the present do I think were going past 2028...

Not date setting, just a personal conviction.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2024 by BlindSeeker

[BlindSeeker]

23 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

2) The Temple, Sanctuary, holy feast days, etc., were a type and shadow of the coming Messiah. His arrival and crucifixion fulfilled all of these elements. The Sanctuary, the animal sacrifices, the offerings, the Temple would be done away with or thrown down. Their mission in His plan of salvation was fulfilled. They would never again have the presence of God within them - the Temple was now just a common structure in God’s eyes (however, they all were still considered holy in the eyes of those who rejected Jesus— but that does not change how God views them).

 Most of the Jews rejected Jesus and the purpose of His sacrifice/crucifixion, which was evident by their continuance in the Mosaic Law. But Jesus, having fulfilled the Law, meant the Ceremonial Law’s official intent was now exhausted, having accomplished its purpose. Its purpose was solely to emphasize and foretell the necessity of a perfect sacrifice, with the shedding of blood necessary for redemption and forgiveness of sins.

The law, with its various actions through its mandatory sacrifices and oblations, altogether served only as a prophetic point to the final and complete sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. Therefore, by rejecting Jesus’ death and atoning blood, the Jews defiantly chose to remain in a now dead and decaying institution, and having completed its purpose, was rapidly waxing old and ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 8:13 – In that He said, A new covenant, He has made the first old. Now that which is decaying and waxing old is ready to vanish away. 

For this reason, Israel is now spiritually called Sodom to signify how any manner of religion they now practice can be nothing more than a perversion of the truth, since they lack both the temple and priesthood lineage, which were destroyed for their rejection of their Promised Deliverer, Jesus the Christ. Likewise, Israel is also spiritually called Egypt to signify how without Jesus’ atonement in their lives they remain under the bondage of sin and death.

We also see the events which transpire in the angel’s discourse with Daniel which lead to the destruction of the Temple, bringing it to a full and utter end. However, that is not how the Holy Spirit led the English translators to write it; rather they wrote it would be destroyed and left so “even until the consummation.” And so, wondrously, this phrase in the prophecy can actually have two layers of meanings that point to undeniable truths:

First point being, the last historical temple which was but prophetic and made with men’s hands, was decaying, waxing old, and about to vanished away through its destruction, and therefore just as the sacrifices and oblations, the Temple too, having fulfilled their purpose was brought to a full and utter end.

The second point being, when at the glorious consummation of the marriage of the Lamb, “then face to face” the Bride of Christ will intimately know her lover even as she is known. 

1st Corinthians 13:12 – For now we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Hebrews 9:5 – And for this cause He is the mediator of the new testament, [or covenant], that by means of death [being cut off], for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise, [even the confirmation] of eternal inheritance.

For Jesus Christ fulfilling the prophetic purposes of the sacrifices through His own sacrifice for our sins, which thereby caused the legal mandate for the Temple sacrifices and oblations to cease. For having fulfilled their purpose, they were now dead, and to perform them would be but a “crucifying of Jesus Christ afresh,” and “a putting Him to an open shame,” which in the eyes of God is an abomination.

And so, we ought to see why Jesus Christ made the temple desolate, because they rejected His sacrifice whereby alone they might be saved. For again, though by their previously doing that which was once lawful, prophetic, and served to proclaim Jesus Christ own sacrifice to come, the Jews continuing to do so were now only establishing a witness against themselves of their rejection of Him. For this cause did God bring it to a full and utter end and made the Temple “desolate even, until the consummation.”

Such is why in Hebrews the Jewish believers were warned not to fear the Jews and compromise their faith in the sufficient sacrifice of Christ, and to not sin by being intimidated to return to the dead practice of the Law in hopes of escaping their persecution, for such would be a frustrating of the grace of God.

Hebrews 6:4 – For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, ⁵ And who have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, ⁶ That if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame.”

This is the reason I am persuaded God will not permit any more temples to be rebuilt –

 

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

 Most of the Jews rejected Jesus and the purpose of His sacrifice/crucifixion, which was evident by their continuance in the Mosaic Law. But Jesus, having fulfilled the Law, meant the Ceremonial Law’s official intent was now exhausted, having accomplished its purpose. Its purpose was solely to emphasize and foretell the necessity of a perfect sacrifice, with the shedding of blood necessary for redemption and forgiveness of sins.

The law, with its various actions through its mandatory sacrifices and oblations, altogether served only as a prophetic point to the final and complete sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. Therefore, by rejecting Jesus’ death and atoning blood, the Jews defiantly chose to remain in a now dead and decaying institution, and having completed its purpose, was rapidly waxing old and ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 8:13 – In that He said, A new covenant, He has made the first old. Now that which is decaying and waxing old is ready to vanish away. 

For this reason, Israel is now spiritually called Sodom to signify how any manner of religion they now practice can be nothing more than a perversion of the truth, since they lack both the temple and priesthood lineage, which were destroyed for their rejection of their Promised Deliverer, Jesus the Christ. Likewise, Israel is also spiritually called Egypt to signify how without Jesus’ atonement in their lives they remain under the bondage of sin and death.

We also see the events which transpire in the angel’s discourse with Daniel which lead to the destruction of the Temple, bringing it to a full and utter end. However, that is not how the Holy Spirit led the English translators to write it; rather they wrote it would be destroyed and left so “even until the consummation.” And so, wondrously, this phrase in the prophecy can actually have two layers of meanings that point to undeniable truths:

First point being, the last historical temple which was but prophetic and made with men’s hands, was decaying, waxing old, and about to vanished away through its destruction, and therefore just as the sacrifices and oblations, the Temple too, having fulfilled their purpose was brought to a full and utter end.

The second point being, when at the glorious consummation of the marriage of the Lamb, “then face to face” the Bride of Christ will intimately know her lover even as she is known. 

1st Corinthians 13:12 – For now we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Hebrews 9:5 – And for this cause He is the mediator of the new testament, [or covenant], that by means of death [being cut off], for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise, [even the confirmation] of eternal inheritance.

For Jesus Christ fulfilling the prophetic purposes of the sacrifices through His own sacrifice for our sins, which thereby caused the legal mandate for the Temple sacrifices and oblations to cease. For having fulfilled their purpose, they were now dead, and to perform them would be but a “crucifying of Jesus Christ afresh,” and “a putting Him to an open shame,” which in the eyes of God is an abomination.

And so, we ought to see why Jesus Christ made the temple desolate, because they rejected His sacrifice whereby alone they might be saved. For again, though by their previously doing that which was once lawful, prophetic, and served to proclaim Jesus Christ own sacrifice to come, the Jews continuing to do so were now only establishing a witness against themselves of their rejection of Him. For this cause did God bring it to a full and utter end and made the Temple “desolate even, until the consummation.”

Such is why in Hebrews the Jewish believers were warned not to fear the Jews and compromise their faith in the sufficient sacrifice of Christ, and to not sin by being intimidated to return to the dead practice of the Law in hopes of escaping their persecution, for such would be a frustrating of the grace of God.

Hebrews 6:4 – For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, ⁵ And who have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, ⁶ That if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame.”

This is the reason I am persuaded God will not permit any more temples to be rebuilt –

 

First, you certainly have a wonderful gift for writing your thoughts!

Yes, I agree, as a result of the cross, so many events would begin to occur- certainly the destruction of the “physical” elements like the Temple that were no longer to play a role in His plan of salvation (their mission was fulfilled), but the most devastating result the Jews could ever realize, that they were made desolate with their God for the “time of the Gentiles.”

This most abominable act against their Messiah would spiritually separate them from their God for some 2000 years. 

But this was always within God’s plan of salvation. He has also prophesied His return to them when they will recognize “the one they have pierced.”

I do not know your thoughts on the time of the end, and I myself am not one to try and determine the date of His second coming, but I definitely know it is close. 
 

Without opening a new subject and stirring the hornets nest, verse 7:25 has been given to us to reveal His return. This is a completely new interpretation (just as the AOD is), and we are so close!

Thanks for your terrific writing, Charlie 

[JoeCanada]

7 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

This is the reason I am persuaded God will not permit any more temples to be rebuilt –

There are approx. 6000 Synagogues in Israel, and about 1000 in Jerusalem... these numbers can be debated, This to say there are many.

Why would God stop another one?

Synagogue, Shul or Temple are all the same. They are places of worship for Jews ans Samaritans.

[BlindSeeker]

3 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

There are approx. 6000 Synagogues in Israel, and about 1000 in Jerusalem... these numbers can be debated, This to say there are many.

Why would God stop another one?

Synagogue, Shul or Temple are all the same.

They maybe be the same to you, but not to God. 

I explained why not in my post.

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

I covered this in my OP….

 

Matthew 24:1-3
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 

So in Matthews account not only was Jesus asked about the destruction of the Temple they were looking at "with their own eyes", but also about the signs of Christ’s second coming and also about the end of the world.”

So in ALL the gospel accounts Jesus was talking about the destruction of the Temple they were LOOKING AT WITH THEIR OWN EYES 👀 

The false doctrines of men are trying to move this event into the future because they cannot “rightly divide”between past, present, and future events.

I heard what you said but it doesn't align.

The Temple prophecy was given at the Temple, the end of the age prophecy was given at another place and at another time, the Mount of Olives. The Temple prophecy and the end of the age prophecy were given at distinct locations and different times.

"As they left the Temple...", and "As Jesus sat in the Mount of Olives..." are not the same place and time. That's not a false doctrine, that's what's written. So how are they a seamless prophecy when there is a time gap, a distance gap, and two distinct subjects?

[Stewardofthemystery]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

The Temple prophecy was given at the Temple, the end of the age prophecy was given at another place and at another time, the Mount of Olives. The Temple prophecy and the end of the age prophecy were given at distinct locations and different times.

"As they left the Temple...", and "As Jesus sat in the Mount of Olives..." are not the same place and time. That's not a false doctrine, that's what's written. So how are they a seamless prophecy when there is a time gap, a distance gap, and two distinct subjects?

I disagree, ALL 3 accounts are speaking of the same events, Matthew and Mark both mention Jesus answered them while they sat on the Mount of Olives, but Luke’s account does not mention where they were sitting when Jesus answered, but this does not mean it was a different prophecy.  
The disciples asked 2 seperate questions, the first was about the destruction of the Temple, the second was about the second coming and the end of the world events.  All the gospels contain the same answer, you just need to “rightly divide” past events from future events.

Lukes account is the best way to show this.  Notice when Jesus says “BUT BEFORE ALL THESE” in verse 12

 

Luke 21:5-11

 

And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

⁶ As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

⁷ And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

⁸ And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

⁹ But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

¹⁰ Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

¹¹ And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

(Notice Jesus says “But before all these” putting events in order)

 

Luke 21:12-24. ..12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that 

give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (the Jews) 24 And they(the Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (compare to Dan 11:33)

 All 3 accounts are speaking of the same events both past and future, but Luke’s account puts events in order from first to last.

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

 All 3 accounts are speaking of the same events both past and future, but Luke’s account puts events in order from first to last.

Why do you stop at verse 24?

There were no chapter breaks like we have in our bibles. 

Jesus' words continue to verse 28. I won't put the verses in large bold letters as there is no need for me to shout:

“There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,

men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

“Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory.

“But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

You said: (Notice Jesus says “But before all these” putting events in order)

Yes indeed........ The order of events continues all the way to verse 29.

Then, in verse 29 Jesus continues His teaching by telling them  a parable. It begins with:

THEN

Which is a continuation of what He was just talking about.

[Stewardofthemystery]

53 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Why do you stop at verse 24?

There were no chapter breaks like we have in our bibles. 

Jesus' words continue to verse 28. I won't put the verses in large bold letters as there is no need for me to shout:

“There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,

men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

“Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory.

“But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

You said: (Notice Jesus says “But before all these” putting events in order)

Yes indeed........ The order of events continues all the way to verse 29.

Then, in verse 29 Jesus continues His teaching by telling them  a parable. It begins with:

THEN

Which is a continuation of what He was just talking about.

I pulled that quote from my other thread of “When did the woman flee into the wilderness” that is why it ended where it did.

If you start at Luke 21:12 Jesus puts prophecy in “order of events.” The first events to happen was the early Christian’s were to be persecuted and killed, then comes the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem fulfilling the AOD in 70 ad. Then comes the Jews being scattered to the nations where they are persecuted from place to place, UNTIL “the fullness of the Gentiles.”

Then comes the signs in the Sun, moon and stars (6th seal signs) Then comes the wrath of God upon the whole world.

The problem with the false doctrine being pushed by many today is they are taking the first event mentioned by Jesus with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple THEY WERE LOOKING AT WITH THEIR OWN EYES 👀 and they are trying to make it into a “future prophecy.”

That is why they don’t believe the 70 weeks of Daniel is already fulfilled. That is why they don’t believe Satan has already been cast out of heaven as Jesus plainly stated.  That is why they think there must be a future Temple to be built to fulfill that prophecy.

They have been led astray by the false doctrines of men like a “7 year tribulation,” a “7 year peace treaty” and a “rapture doctrine” which is not based on the words of God.

It is the blind leading the blind.