Preamble to Philippians

[Neighbor]

Seems Yeshua rested upon the scriptures  The Hebrew Bible about 283 times within the accounts of the four gospel presentations! But who is counting?

[Mr. M]

21 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

Shadows are not the very image...therefore old testament scripture can not define new testament scripture

NT scripture IS OT scripture, rightly divided in Christ.

Romans 10:

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, 

“The man who does those things shall live by them.” 

6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, 

“Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” 

(that is, to bring Christ down from above) 

7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” 

(that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you,

in your mouth and in your heart” 

(that is, the word of faith which we preach):

Deuteronomy 30:

11 For this commandment which I command you today 

is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off.

12 It is not in heaven, that you should say,

‘Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us,

that we may hear it and do it?’ 

13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say,

‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us,

that we may hear it and do it?’ 

14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth

and in your heart, that you may do it.

Romans 9:

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not

pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, 

even the righteousness of faith; 

31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, 

has not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were,

by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 

33 As it is written:

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

 

Romans 10:

3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness,

and seeking to establish their own righteousness,

have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness

to everyone who believes.

 

The righteousness of the Law is not made void by faith,

we are rightly established in the Law. Romans 3:31

Romans 8:

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, 

God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,

on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 

4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us

who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 

 

What are we to find in our study of the Law? Righteousness and Judgment

Psalm 106:3 Blessed are they that keep judgment,

and he that does righteousness at all times.

Psalm 89:14 Righteousness and judgment are the habitation of thy throne:

mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

 

The Law is our schoolmaster for therein lies instruction in righteousness.

2 Timothy 3:

6 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,

for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 

17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Discipleship without the Word of God results in the Way becoming wayward.

Edited July 4, 2024 by Mr. M

[Mr. M]

On 7/2/2024 at 6:30 PM, Marilyn C said:

Israel is symbolically called the `wife,` the `bride` purpose. (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

Trying to get believers to emotionally have romantic love for the Head of His Body, is very wrong.

Trying to have romantic love without comprehending the love

of Christ for his bride is very wrong. Don't mix metaphors.

Ephesians 5:

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved

the church and gave Himself for her, 

26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with

the washing of water by the word, 

27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, 

not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that

she should be holy and without blemish. 

28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies;

he who loves his wife loves himself. 

29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it,

just as the Lord does the church. 

30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.

31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother

and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 

32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 

[Mr. M]

On 7/2/2024 at 3:25 PM, AdHoc said:

In informal theological terms, Colossians is all about the Head. Ephesians s all about what privileges the Body has in the Head. Philippians is all about the Body enjoying the Head.

The union between the Divine Head and mere men is totally enhanced by "being partakers of the divine nature". We Christians, far above the Israelite and the Gentile, are elevated to "help meet". That is, a "companion up to the standard of" Christ. To Israel our Lord Jesus is son of David their King - a regal relationship. To the Church He is an organically joined Member sharing the same nature like Eve did of Adam when no partner was found for him. To Israel our Lord Jesus burst through clouds like lightning and they "mourn" (Matt.24:30). They are startled and cut to the heart.

But us Christians go forth to meet the Bridegroom as Virgins. Paul's joy on the opening verses of Philippians should belong to us all. And so it is, until we check our Wedding Garment and the oil supply - NOT in the Lamp - but in the Vessel (Rev.19:7-8, Matt.25:1-14). It behooves us all to both give joy to our Beloved Savior AND to be found equipped for Festivities. This correct feasting needs practice. The Bible calls our meetings "Love Feasts". Is your meeting more like a funeral? Do you wake up to face a torrid day with thanksgiving that the Creator of the Universe is with you. Do you first have the Bread of Life before coffee and croissants? The ability to sing in the face of pain shows if Christ is real to you or not. Got chains that bind you? A brutish husband or crushing debt? Can you glimpse the hand of God?

Special Forces training is a lot of pain and endurance, but the pain of being washed off the course is worse! You've been selected to be a future king (Lk.19:17.19). God has put you in a world that shows you how NOT to rule. Thank Him for the injustice done to you. One day, in your resurrected body, with angels to serve you, you will be a beacon of justice. Paul says that ALL THINGS were lost. But they only made way for the knowledge of the most Excellent One. Don't be caught at the Judgment Seat of Christ with His words; "I never knew you", ringing in your ears. Or will you rather hear "come into my garden beloved ... "?

The Training in this age is tough because you will subdue tough Gentiles in the next age. The walk is tough because we have been left in a world that needs the gospel but only understands beatings. The reward is great though. Don't miss it. But more than that, ENJOY Christ now. Have you blown Him a lover's kiss yet? Whaaat! You've been awake six hours and haven't thought about your Fiancé?

29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes

and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.

30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 

31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother

and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 

32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 

33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself,

and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

When a marriage struggles, the wife does not feel cherished,

and the husband does not feel respected. They both lament:

"there is no more romance in the relationship".

[Cntrysner]

4 hours ago, Neighbor said:

We simply disagree on this issue. I rest upon the scriptures for sure, as is recorded  my Lord and savior Yeshua did also.

Seems Yeshua rested upon the scriptures  The Hebrew Bible about 283 times within the accounts of the four gospel presentations! But who is counting?

I rest on new testament scripture not the old.

Please, give me your definition of the new testament … it made the old obsolete.

If Christ had rested on old testament scripture He would have ceased from His work, thank God he did not do that.

2Co 3:14  But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 
2Co 3:15  But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 
2Co 3:16  Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 
2Co 3:17  Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 
2Co 3:18  But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Christ did quote old testament scripture, in many cases it was to condemn them (Gal 3:10) and in others it was to remove the vail so they could see clearly (2 Co 3:16).  
 

Edited July 4, 2024 by Cntrysner

[Neighbor]

As I already stated on this we disagree.

[Marilyn C]

18 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Trying to have romantic love without comprehending the love

of Christ for his bride is very wrong. Don't mix metaphors.

Ephesians 5:

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved

the church and gave Himself for her, 

26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with

the washing of water by the word, 

27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, 

not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that

she should be holy and without blemish. 

28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies;

he who loves his wife loves himself. 

29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it,

just as the Lord does the church. 

30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.

31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother

and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 

32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 

The Greek is `it` not `her,` referring to the `Body,` which is the New MAN.

[Mr. M]

On 7/5/2024 at 12:16 AM, Marilyn C said:

The Greek is `it` not `her,` referring to the `Body,` which is the New MAN.

No, it is not. The KJV and a couple of older translations use it.

All modern translations use her.

The comparison is for a husband to cherish and nourish his wife.

@AdHoc 's main point was to acknowledge, not ignore

"after 6 hours". Yes, the comment was a bit flirtatious,

something a good marriage could use on occasion. 

Suggesting that romance is inappropriate is very odd to me.

Being romantic is not being seductive.

Did you read my response to his post? If so, a reaction to that

may be appropriate.

Paul would not compare marriage to the relationship between

Christ and the Church as an 'it'. The "new man" is used elsewhere,

but not in Ephesians 5, and the marriage analogy. 

Again, do not mix metaphors. 

We must love one another to make the church strong.

Does that mean we are loving the "new man"?

Or are we loving Christ and each other as we love ourselves?

Here the translators revert to 'it':

29 For no one ever hated his own flesh,

but nourishes and cherishes it,

just as the Lord does the church. 

Reference is to 'own flesh', not the church. 

Referring to the Greek does not settle the matter, understanding the analogy does. Trying to insert "the new man", a reference made elsewhere, but not Eph 5 is just making things awkward for the sake of argument. Paul does not say Christ loves the 'new man' in Ephesians 5, and nothing about the post was "very wrong" outside your own opinion. A man might find that interpretation homophobic, but that is just getting weirder, and making matters worse.

 

Edited July 6, 2024 by Mr. M

[AdHoc]

On 7/3/2024 at 7:27 PM, Cntrysner said:

Shadows are not the very image...therefore old testament scripture can not define new testament scripture.

2Pe_3:16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

You have made a correct statement. But I would have addressed it to @Marilyn C. She proposed Israel as Christ's Bride from Isaiah.

Well have you also quoted 2nd Peter 3:16, but the context is not the Bride of Christ. It is the second coming of our Lord in judgment.

You obviously had a reason for your quote, but as you seem to agree with me, I'll let it stand as such. I'm sorry if I missed an objection.

[AdHoc]

On 7/4/2024 at 2:16 AM, Marilyn C said:

Philippians reveals the `goal for the prize of the on top calling of God in Christ Jesus.` (Phil. 3: 14) 

Our citizenship is in heaven and our bodies will be changed to be like His glorious body. (Phil. 3: 21) 

Christ is male and His Body is the New Man. (Eph. 2: 15,  4: 13)

God`s love is NOT romantic love, but agape, the giving of yourself. 

As to the `wedding,` that is the final requirement of the kinsmen redeemer (Jesus) in relation to Israel. The book of Ruth gives the 4 requirements. That is what is being portrayed in Matt. 22. Then we know that God `divorced His unfaithful wife, (Israel, Jer. 3: 8   Isa. 50) but will remarry her, (Rev. 19: 7 & 8) when Israel has made herself ready by `righteous acts.` 

Sorry, I can't relate your answer to romantic love or not. You've gone off at a tangent. But more than this the reader must inquire - why did you change God for Christ - suddenly? The question was who does CHRIST marry?

As to Ruth you've missed the point. Boaz redeems the Land for Naomi - a Jew. But he marries Ruth - a Gentile. Her allegiance to the God of Israel does not make her a Jew. The Law cannot change. Ruth may not enter the congregation as a Moabitess. So also the New Man. It is taken out of "TWAIN" (Israel and the Nations) and the Law is abolished for the New Man - not for Israel.

@Cntrysner was right. You can't form doctrine with types, shadows and parables. You need direct statements. The wife must come out of the man. She must be "bone of HIS bone and flesh of HIS flesh". Israel comes out of Jacob. Only the Church (disciples) come out of Christ (Jn.12:24, Gen.2:23, Eph.5:30).

Your claim that the New Man is the wrong gender is moot. The relationship is "one spirit" (1st Cor.6:16-17).