The Woman In Transgression

[Mr. M]

55 minutes ago, Jayne said:

He just flat out and deliberately disobeyed as if God had never given him instruction on how to BE obedient.

That is not clearly stated in the narrative,

but understandable that it would be your view.

[Jayne]

31 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

That is not clearly stated in the narrative,

but understandable that it would be your view.

We can both agree that the Bible says Adam was not deceived.  And we can both agree that the Bible says that "through one man [Adam] sin came into the world".

So what was the cause of that sin if not deception?  The only thing left is deliberate disobedience.

Deception and deliberate defiance.  We are all guilty of both.

[AnOrangeCat]

I thought about this one a little bit after reading the first post. This is less obvious and perhaps not a transgression in and of itself but I find that there's an element of unbelief present in it all for both Adam and Eve. God, their Creator, said they'd die if they ate it. Why take the word of this serpent, a created being, over what God told them? As already stated on the thread we all fall prey to deception from time to time but from my admittedly limited perspective I have to wonder what the thought processes involved were. Looking at it from that angle adds another layer to it all for me.

[Mr. M]

14 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

I thought about this one a little bit after reading the first post. This is less obvious and perhaps not a transgression in and of itself but I find that there's an element of unbelief present in it all for both Adam and Eve. God, their Creator, said they'd die if they ate it. Why take the word of this serpent, a created being, over what God told them? As already stated on the thread we all fall prey to deception from time to time but from my admittedly limited perspective I have to wonder what the thought processes involved were. Looking at it from that angle adds another layer to it all for me.

Only Adam received the command concerning the forbidden fruit.

The woman had not even been created!

Genesis 2:

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying,

Of every tree of the garden thou may freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,

thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that you eat

thereof thou shalt surely die.

This is why Paul states:

Romans 5:

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,

even over those who had not sinned according to

the likeness of the transgression of Adam, 

who is a type of Him who was to come. 

Paul is contrasting Adam to Christ (second Adam),

Eve is not even mentioned in Romans 5.

Adam alone received a direct command from God.

Mankind found a variety of ways to offend, but

had no direct command to NOT do them. Yet, all died

because of Adam's transgression.

So exactly what was Adam's transgression?

Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Adam was not addressed in the narrative of the temptation.

Genesis 3:

1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field

which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman,

Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

2 And the woman said to the serpent,

We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 

3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden,

God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, You will not surely die. 

 

Adam is NOT present, but we find from Eve's words in v. 2

that she had received instructions from Adam, who added

the words "nor shall you touch it". This left the opening

for Satan to manipulate her, but we are not ignorant of his devices...

Eve then "took of the fruit", then gave some to Adam and they ate.

True story. 

The point of the OP was to understand transgress/transgression,

rather than, sin, offense, etc..

Transgress means "to overstep, to depart from beside someone"

to go beyond. Eve had departed from Adam's side, and it was

unlikely known she would face a temptation from a serpent.

And yet, the man is held accountable.

That is truth.

Hosea 4:14 I will not punish your daughters when they commit harlotry,
Nor your brides when they commit adultery;
For the men themselves go apart with harlots,
And offer sacrifices with a ritual harlot.
Therefore people who do not understand will be trampled.

[Mr. M]

3 hours ago, Mr. M said:

transgression-[G3847] parabasis <[G3845] parabaino=transgress:

1. to go by the side of

2. to go past or pass over without touching a thing

3. to overstep, neglect, violate, transgress

4. so to go past as to turn aside from

   1. to depart, leave, be turned from

5. one who abandons his trust.

6. I find no transliteration "to fall into"

7. It is a walking away.

2 John 1:9 Whoever *[d]transgresses and does not abide

in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.

He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both

the Father and the Son. 

*(d) 2 John 1:9 NU goes ahead,

Which specific doctrine causes this transgression?

John 5:19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, 

Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself,

but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does,

the Son also does in like manner. 

At the judgment we will find out how often we acted

without direction. Will it be sin that leads to death?

Hopefully not! But we transgress nonetheless when 

we "go forward" without God. This informs us to the

profound meaning and importance of "abiding", used

twice in 2 John 1:9

[Your closest friendnt]

9 hours ago, Sower said:

She believed the fruit would make her like God. (deceived/pride)

"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate"

Then, God said;

Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
 

To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you."            ESV

 

I can not say that by reading the text that Eve ate the fruit because the fruit will make her like God. And I have to ask as to why you made that statement? 

Edited August 20, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, Jayne said:

Yes, Adam was there when Eve and the serpent had a conversation.  The Bible clearly states that.

Genesis 3:6-8 = "When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves."

Yes, Eve was deceived because she entertained the words of the serpent.  No, Adam was not deceived.  He just flat out and deliberately disobeyed as if God had never given him instruction on how to BE obedient.

Both are equally sinful.  Paul said that he, himself was deceived.  Jesus said in Revelation that the whole world is deceived.  And all people at times sin knowing full well that should not do what they are about to do.

I've never had a husband so I don't know what that is like to be lorded over.  But I did have a wonderful father.  He instructed  me and both he and my mother chastened me when I deserved it.

However, once I became aware of personal sin - those sins were on ME.  Not my parents.

 

I read very carefully the account on Genesis 3 and God never said to anyone of them that they sin. 

He told them before hand what will happen if they eat from that tree or even touch it. And God never called them sinners or treat them like sinners the way he called Cain a sinner. The first time the word sin is mention in in chapter 4: when God said to Cain that Sin in knocking on the door of your heart and you should have resist it and not open the door of your heart. You should keep it out and rebuke it.

 

Edited August 20, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[other one]

Keep in mind that they had not received the fruit of the tree and was not aware of right//wrong, good/evil, however you really want to put it.

I would also remind folks they had been running around naked and thought nothing about it until they had eaten of the fruit.

Was it a sin to run around naked, if not then why were they so bothered by it after eating the fruit.

It seems to be saying that eating of the fruit didn't bring sin into the world, it just brought the knowledge of it.

And since God was setting us up to judge angels, I would say that he intended for them to eat it and have Satan directly responsible for it.  It gave mankind the qualification of judging.

[Your closest friendnt]

9 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, Transgression? Perhaps none, for transgression is a deliberate disobedience. Eve was deceived. Being deceived she did not transgress, but did fall into transgression as result of her action upon being deceived. She missed the mark of course (Sin).  

The man, Adam, on the other hand  was not necessarily deceived at all by Satan, and he deliberately partook  along with Eve. He did transgress in  his deliberate action against God's commands. 

PS  See 1 Timothy 2 :14 comment transliterated as transgression - "fell into transgression".

Romans 5:12  attributes Adam as the cause of the fall of mankind, yet all sin and are responsible without excuse.

Eve at that time was not like us who have the knowledge of what is right and wrong. 

She was born into a world of not knowing right from wrong and Adam himself not knowing right from wrong he could not teach her. 

God let us know that the desire of the woman will be for her husband. That means they will mature and have children. And Eve could get that only from Adam. 

And God said be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth before everything happens.  

And he told Adam that there is only one Eve and to take care of her. 

Adam was in a Cross road and he did the right thing. Eve could not reverse the situation and to be together Adam had to follow her 

Eve gave the fruit to Adam to eat. She knew something that she was different but not Adam. She wanted Adam to be with her, she must have been scared. 

Good Adam followed her. If not then what?

A woman was the reason for the Devil to get the authority to keep the mankind by default at the time of their death. The mankind's inheritance after death was decided right their. 

And a woman was prophesied that will be responsible to bring forth the one who will crush his head, who will be responsible for the Devil to loose his default authority over mankind. Abraham was later the exception but he was without a Heavenly Inheritance. 

Just as it was foretold that when the Devil put to death the seed of the woman the Devil will loose his default .authority over mankind.

Jesus said all authority has been given to Me and later said that I HAVE THE KEYS OF DEATH AND HADES. 

And I am appointed to judge everyone.  

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, other one said:

Keep in mind that they had not received the fruit of the tree and was not aware of right//wrong, good/evil, however you really want to put it.

I would also remind folks they had been running around naked and thought nothing about it until they had eaten of the fruit.

Was it a sin to run around naked, if not then why were they so bothered by it after eating the fruit.

It seems to be saying that eating of the fruit didn't bring sin into the world, it just brought the knowledge of it.

And since God was setting us up to judge angels, I would say that he intended for them to eat it and have Satan directly responsible for it.  It gave mankind the qualification of judging.

You have made a very good independent evaluation. 

God when he made Adam he said everything was good for just this moment and others later on. His plan was just like that for various reasons. 

God imediatly said that the Judgement of the Devil is at hand and is coming at the hands of the seed of the Woman. 

At that time the mankind's inheritance after death was decided the fallen inheritance and when the seed of the woman will come he will bring the Heavenly Inheritance for mankind. 

And he will take all authority unto himself. The devil will loose his default authority to harvest mankind at the time of their death. Jesus said I have the Keys of Death and Hades. 

Man was created in the Garden. In an environment where he was responsible for his standing towards God. 

We are in Jesus Christ. 

They did not sin. If they had sin God will never continue to give them his fellowship out of the Garden. And their children were born without sin. God for the first time He said to Cain that sin is knocking on the door of your heart and you must refuse it or restle with it and not let it in. No to act. Not to do it. The devil was telling him "kill him" or hit him hard knowing that he will die. 

The first time God mentioned the word sin and cut off his his presence with Cain. Adam and Eve had his presence out of the Garden in the same way as they had it in the Garden. 

Edited August 21, 2024 by Your closest friendnt