No rapture or left behind

[Massorite]

You know the thing that really bothers me is this. Last year there were more then 250,000 Christians who died simply because they believed in Christ and the number is growing each year. They were hanged, beaten, burned to death,they had their heads cut off, women and young Christian girls had acid thrown into their faces which forever made then look like monsters, their churches were burned down or blown up. In some cases gunmen came into their churches during services and opened fire killing and maiming many. In countries like China, Saudia Arabia, Pakistan, Indonesia, Somalia and many more countries, Christians are killed daily with the approval of the government. any muslem who converts to Christianity are disowned by their family and killed. They are discreminated against in their employment, schooling, healthcare, social services and individual rights because they are lovers of Christ. Need I go on? So for all of you who don't believe that you are going to be here for a great tribulation guess what? WE ARE ALREADY IN ONE. Just because we cant, see it happening in America doesn,t mean that it is not already happening in the world outside our country because it is. Most of the civil wars in the world are between the Muslem and the Christian populations and the Christians are losing ground. So wake up and remove the scale from your eyes because one day it arrive on our shores and hit us like a ton of bricks just like 911 did.

What is the difference between those persecuted Christians in the world and us here in America? Not a single thing. What do you think they would say if you were to walk up to them and say "God said that Christians will not have to go through that kind of persecution". Man they would laugh in your face and tell you. We are already suffering great persecution.

Mark my words. There are about 1,000,000 Assyrian Christians living in Iraq and there is fear that if we move out of Iraq the Assyrians will be wiped out and they will. They will be forced to convert to Islam or die a torturus manner.

So wake up and smell the coffee because it is burning. The pre-trib concept is a doctrinal belief straight from the pits of hell.

As False Doctrinal Teachings Continues

Edited July 22, 2007 by Massorite

[chin]

stephen said he would never deny the LORD, but he did three times. it says in the word ,never in the history of time ,will there be a worse time than during the tribulation. who would not want to escape that?

[eric]

Still waiting for someone to tell me the difference between trump......and........trumpet

[Carol R]

Allow me to set the stage....

The time is the new world order under one religion. The antichrist is killing all who do not pledge his alliance. You cannot buy, sell, or trade without his mark.

What would you do? Where would you go? How do you protect your family? How would you survive? Do you have a plan if this horrible event should ever occur?

The best plan is to be ready for Jesus' coming so we won't have to go through the great tribulation period. If we are not ready at his returning, then the only thing you can do is be prepared to die for your faith. At some point, you will be forced to take a mark in your right hand or forehead, and if you haven't done so, you won't be able to buy or sell. That would likely lead to starvation and death. In some instances, people will probably be executed.

I know there are a lot of people who are all prepared in their mind for surviving the tribulation period, but I would caution those that when you think you stand, take heed lest you fall. Nobody knows whether or not they will be able to stand up to the persecutions till they are faced with it. Even if you doubt the reality of the rapture, I suggest you walk as close to God as possible, and I believe that if you do that, you won't be here for those terrible times to come.

Luke 21:36 "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

I think this is a very good reply, and wise words.

Carol R

[Massorite]

Still waiting for someone to tell me the difference between trump......and........trumpet

There is no difference. The word trump is simply short for the word trumpet.

[chin]

stephen said he would never deny the LORD, but he did three times. it says in the word ,never in the history of time ,will there be a worse time than during the tribulation. who would not want to escape that?

[damo1]

Allow me to set the stage....

The time is the new world order under one religion. The antichrist is killing all who do not pledge his alliance. You cannot buy, sell, or trade without his mark.

What would you do? Where would you go? How do you protect your family? How would you survive? Do you have a plan if this horrible event should ever occur?

damo1 friday 26th october 2007

i have thought well and hard on this as i use to live on the streets as a street kid i worked in the strip clubs in sydney as a boucer and i also worked in the security industry before the laws hear changed to the point wear men like my self who served time wear not alloweed to hold a gun licence and work with in the industry

if you look at davids life the lord blessed him and the army that served under david these guys wear real men and wear not wimps they deffended their land and prottected their women and their kids making sure their needs wear being met and no one was missing out or starving

i wil fast and pray for 30 days by my self and seek gods face and tell him my concerns and then i wil ask him to guide me and watch over me and send me men who wil stand with me and fight all the way no matter how strong of an army the enemy has as i go buy an old saying wear their is a wil their is a way i wil stand up for what i belive in i wil prottect the women and the children and i wil make sure not one single person goes with out i wil have a camp out of the city and in the forest with sevral cars and i wil even get sevral tanks and weapons and i wil have a chappel or church in the compound the camp will be prottected by a security fence with good gaurd dogs

the army i am going to ask god to send me i wil test the men my self as i do not want wimps that wil run from the battle but men who are real men and know what its like to take that stand

i wil have pastors and i wil have also elders and leaders running the camp and making sure the people are being cared for and fed gods word

i wil set up like a farm wear we live off the land and even our animals wil be prottected as i wil place people that can look after our animals

i am just a simple guy who knows how to survive in harsh cricumstances and i do not feel that god is going to point the finger at me and say no i do not want you doing this

so this has been wel thought of and if i am stil alive when this happens this is what i wil do as i wil use the skills i have and unless god says so i wil not feel guilty for taking that stand as i wil also train my men and and any other young man that wants to join gods army i wil also make sure we have christian doctors as wel and set up a hospital with in the camp the camp its self wil be on a 20 acre sight with houses or cabins built and this wil be patroled 24/7 and their wil be shifts those that work threw the night wil rest threw the day and the day shift crew wil also have brakes

as i wil even send out spies to see what is going on in the main city and see what the antichrist is up to and every time we take down an enemy we wil use what ever they have weather it be gun or weapons or even helicopters and boats and bikes

this might sound strange from a brother but i have thought long and hard on this and i do not feel guilty for openly saying what i said hear

as i am a mans man not a new age guy god made me this way and i wil die this way

as i could have been a robbot and gave you nice simple i wil get killed saying but i am diffrent i wil face the enemy head on and hit him with everything i have a give god that little extra hand to bring down his evil forces as he wil manipulate men and he wil evan alow his demons to take over their souls so they in a way are no longer in contol and some one else is controling those serving the antichrist

so i hope this is clear to what i wil do in the end days

[HAZARD]

Allow me to set the stage....

The time is the new world order under one religion. The antichrist is killing all who do not pledge his alliance. You cannot buy, sell, or trade without his mark.

What would you do? Where would you go? How do you protect your family? How would you survive? Do you have a plan if this horrible event should ever occur?

If you are in Jesus you and your loved ones will be taken out of the world before all this happens.

The rapture is a distinct event in itself and takes place at least seven years before the second coming of christ. The rapture takes place before the tribulation, and the second coming after the tribulation. The rapture is the time when Christ comes FOR the saints (1 Thess. 4:13-17), and the second coming is when He comes back to the Earth WITH them (Zech. 14:1-5; Jude 14; Rev. 19:11-21). At the rapture, Christ takes the saints to heaven (1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16; Col. 3:4), and at the second coming He Leaves Heaven with them (Rev. 19 11-21). At the rapture Christ does not come to Earth (1 thess.4:16) but at the second coming He does (Zech.14:14; Matt. 24:29-31). Since Christ does not come to earth at the rapture, it cannot be called the second coming of Christ.

The rapture must and does take place before the fulfilment of Rev. 4-22, which describes the tribulation period and the Millennium and the New Earth after the Millennium. According to 2 Thess. 2:7-8 it is stated that "the Hinderer of lawlessness will be taken out of the way," "And Then shall the wicked be revealed" and since the wicked is here for the last seven years of this age, according to Dan. 9:27, the hinderer must be removed before the Antichrist comes and before the tribulation that he will cause when he comes. The hinderer refered to in 2 thess 2:7-8 is the church, and also that the Antichrist cannot possibly be revealed until after the church us taken out of the way. Now comes the question of whether the Antichrist will be revealed at the beginning or at the middle of the Week, then it can also be proved that the church is raptured before the beginning and not the middle of the Week as the manchild. In Dan. 9:27 we have one indisputable argument that he is revealed at the beginning of the Week, for he makes a covenant for seven years with Israel and not for three and one half years. The breaking of the covenant in the middle of the Week is not a revelation of him on the scene of action, but an unfolding of what he is to do in the middle of the Week, three and one half years after his revelation. This passage gives one of the scriptural marks by which we may know who the Antichrist is and when he is to be revealed. If the church is raptured in the middle of the Week there would be a definite time set for the rapture and we should quit looking for the rapture at any other time and look for the events which mark the appearance of the seventieth Week. But if the Church goes through the terrible events of the seals and trumpets, then the promise of Jesus that true believers shall "escape all these things" is contradicted and Paul's teaching that the church is caught up before the revelation of the Antichrist is also contradicted, for the Antichrist is here three and one half years before the middle of the Week. Therefore, once we understand that the church can be raptured any day and that there is no definite time set for that event, then we can conscientiously teach others that they should be ready for the rapture at any and all times. In Thess. 5:1-11 we have another definite promise assuring us that the saints will escape the wrath which precedes the day of the Lord. "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation [deliverance from this wrath] by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him." The second advent marks the beginning of the day of the Lord. This wrath is revealed in Matt. 24-25; luke 21; Rev. 6:1-19:21 and is to be fulfilled during the Seventieth Week. If the saints escape this wrath, the church must be raptured before the Week or in Rev. 4:1. Prophetical date Setting (Matt. 24:36-25:46) It is definitely stated and illustrated in these verses that no man will know the day or the hour of the second coming of Christ to the Earth. All we may know is "the times and seasons" which prove the nearness of the second advent (1 Thess. 5:1-9). To keep His disciples from speculating as to the day and hour of His coming, Christ gives a comparison showing a similarity between the days of Noah and the days just before His coming and states that men before the flood "knew not untill the flood came and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt. 24:37-39; 1 Thess. 5:1-3; Jude 14.

As far as the Antichrist ruling all the world, that is a man made theory. He will never rule the entire world.

The Antichrist will be a man; " Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a MAN; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six" (Revelation 13:18), and the Bible also teaches that the Antichrist will reign over only ten kingdoms that are yet to be formed inside the yet to be revived, Old Roman Empire and he will not be a world wide dictator (Dan. 7:23-24). Only these ten kingdoms will give their power and kingdoms to him. (Rev.13:1; 17:12-17). Certain countries will escape his rule (Dan.11:40-44). Certain countries will make war on him at the very time he is supposed to be ruling the whole world (Dan. 11:40-44). Because he will reign only over ten countries inside the Roman Empire territory and because America is not inside that territory and never will be, and because certain countries will escape him we can scripturally conclude that he will never rule America or be a world-wide dictator.

Therefore, multitudes of people of many nations will also never take the mark of the beast and they will never be killed by the Antichrist for not doing so. The Bible speaks of many peoples of many nations that are left after the reign of the Antichrist, people who will be alive in the Millennium and will go up yearly to worship God (Zech. 14:16-21).

This further limits the kingdom of the Antichrist to only part of the world and also limits his ability to kill every one who does not take the mark even in his own empire. According to Rev. 14:9-11 no one who has taken the mark will go into the Millennium, but will be sent to eternal Hell.

That multitudes go into the Millennium proves they have not taken the mark of the beast and have not been killed, as taught by many Bible students.

If the Antichrist were to kill every person who does not take his mark, and God sends to Hell every one who does take the mark, then there would be not one person left to enter the Millennium. Also,

The mark of the beast will not be 666. There are three brands men will have a choice of taking in the days of the Antichrist inside his kingdom. They are his name, his mark, and the number of his name (Rev. 13:16-18). The name and mark of this man is not given in scripture; so no one will know what they are until he comes and men get to know what his name and mark will be, and what he will chose to put on his followers. The only one of these three brands that is given is the number of his name, and that is stated as being 666 in Rev. 13:18. So 666 is not the name or the mark of the beast. It is the number of the beast.

[Shad]

First thing I would do is fall on my knees and weap in sorrow that I hadn't done the things I should've done in order to be able to be called up with the believers and next I'd do some heavy heavy soul searching and praying to figure out what exactly I did wrong and figure out how to fix it.

Unfortunately there are going to be a lot more people like myself that believe in Christ and thought they had done everything right than we think so I figure we would all eventually form one large group and find somewhere to settle down. Because if my thinking and understanding are correct and I might be wrong but it says you must have the mark of the beast in order to buy food or make monetary transactions it doesn't say that you aren't allowed to live.

As for food again it says we can't buy, trade, or sell it says nothing about not being able to grow your own food and I firmly believe the Lord would provide a way so that we would be able to grow our own food or catch food to eat if necessary. No doubt life would be hard but IMO that's a small part of the price we would pay for not having done the things necessary to be called up in the rapture and that we must work extra hard to find the Lord our God and live our lives for him no matter what is thrown our way. But just because you aren't called up in the rapture doesn't mean there still isn't a way to spend eternity in Heaven with our Father GOD it just means you have to work extra hard to get there.

Edited November 3, 2007 by Shad

[Massorite]

Allow me to set the stage....The time is the new world order under one religion. The antichrist is killing all who do not pledge his alliance. You cannot buy, sell, or trade without his mark. What would you do? Where would you go? How do you protect your family? How would you survive? Do you have a plan if this horrible event should ever occur?

If you are in Jesus you and your loved ones will be taken out of the world before all this happens.The rapture is a distinct event in itself and takes place at least seven years before the second coming of christ. The rapture takes place before the tribulation, and the second coming after the tribulation. The rapture is the time when Christ comes FOR the saints (1 Thess. 4:13-17), and the second coming is when He comes back to the Earth WITH them (Zech. 14:1-5; Jude 14; Rev. 19:11-21). At the rapture, Christ takes the saints to heaven (1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16; Col. 3:4), and at the second coming He Leaves Heaven with them (Rev. 19 11-21). At the rapture Christ does not come to Earth (1 thess.4:16) but at the second coming He does (Zech.14:14; Matt. 24:29-31). Since Christ does not come to earth at the rapture, it cannot be called the second coming of Christ. The rapture must and does take place before the fulfilment of Rev. 4-22, which describes the tribulation period and the Millennium and the New Earth after the Millennium. According to 2 Thess. 2:7-8 it is stated that "the Hinderer of lawlessness will be taken out of the way," "And Then shall the wicked be revealed" and since the wicked is here for the last seven years of this age, according to Dan. 9:27, the hinderer must be removed before the Antichrist comes and before the tribulation that he will cause when he comes. The hinderer refered to in 2 thess 2:7-8 is the church, and also that the Antichrist cannot possibly be revealed until after the church us taken out of the way. Now comes the question of whether the Antichrist will be revealed at the beginning or at the middle of the Week, then it can also be proved that the church is raptured before the beginning and not the middle of the Week as the manchild. In Dan. 9:27 we have one indisputable argument that he is revealed at the beginning of the Week, for he makes a covenant for seven years with Israel and not for three and one half years. The breaking of the covenant in the middle of the Week is not a revelation of him on the scene of action, but an unfolding of what he is to do in the middle of the Week, three and one half years after his revelation. This passage gives one of the scriptural marks by which we may know who the Antichrist is and when he is to be revealed. If the church is raptured in the middle of the Week there would be a definite time set for the rapture and we should quit looking for the rapture at any other time and look for the events which mark the appearance of the seventieth Week. But if the Church goes through the terrible events of the seals and trumpets, then the promise of Jesus that true believers shall "escape all these things" is contradicted and Paul's teaching that the church is caught up before the revelation of the Antichrist is also contradicted, for the Antichrist is here three and one half years before the middle of the Week. Therefore, once we understand that the church can be raptured any day and that there is no definite time set for that event, then we can conscientiously teach others that they should be ready for the rapture at any and all times. In Thess. 5:1-11 we have another definite promise assuring us that the saints will escape the wrath which precedes the day of the Lord. "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation [deliverance from this wrath] by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him." The second advent marks the beginning of the day of the Lord. This wrath is revealed in Matt. 24-25; luke 21; Rev. 6:1-19:21 and is to be fulfilled during the Seventieth Week. If the saints escape this wrath, the church must be raptured before the Week or in Rev. 4:1. Prophetical date Setting (Matt. 24:36-25:46) It is definitely stated and illustrated in these verses that no man will know the day or the hour of the second coming of Christ to the Earth. All we may know is "the times and seasons" which prove the nearness of the second advent (1 Thess. 5:1-9). To keep His disciples from speculating as to the day and hour of His coming, Christ gives a comparison showing a similarity between the days of Noah and the days just before His coming and states that men before the flood "knew not untill the flood came and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt. 24:37-39; 1 Thess. 5:1-3; Jude 14.As far as the Antichrist ruling all the world, that is a man made theory. He will never rule the entire world.The Antichrist will be a man; " Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a MAN; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six" (Revelation 13:18), and the Bible also teaches that the Antichrist will reign over only ten kingdoms that are yet to be formed inside the yet to be revived, Old Roman Empire and he will not be a world wide dictator (Dan. 7:23-24). Only these ten kingdoms will give their power and kingdoms to him. (Rev.13:1; 17:12-17). Certain countries will escape his rule (Dan.11:40-44). Certain countries will make war on him at the very time he is supposed to be ruling the whole world (Dan. 11:40-44). Because he will reign only over ten countries inside the Roman Empire territory and because America is not inside that territory and never will be, and because certain countries will escape him we can scripturally conclude that he will never rule America or be a world-wide dictator. Therefore, multitudes of people of many nations will also never take the mark of the beast and they will never be killed by the Antichrist for not doing so. The Bible speaks of many peoples of many nations that are left after the reign of the Antichrist, people who will be alive in the Millennium and will go up yearly to worship God (Zech. 14:16-21). This further limits the kingdom of the Antichrist to only part of the world and also limits his ability to kill every one who does not take the mark even in his own empire. According to Rev. 14:9-11 no one who has taken the mark will go into the Millennium, but will be sent to eternal Hell. That multitudes go into the Millennium proves they have not taken the mark of the beast and have not been killed, as taught by many Bible students. If the Antichrist were to kill every person who does not take his mark, and God sends to Hell every one who does take the mark, then there would be not one person left to enter the Millennium. Also, The mark of the beast will not be 666. There are three brands men will have a choice of taking in the days of the Antichrist inside his kingdom. They are his name, his mark, and the number of his name (Rev. 13:16-18). The name and mark of this man is not given in scripture; so no one will know what they are until he comes and men get to know what his name and mark will be, and what he will chose to put on his followers. The only one of these three brands that is given is the number of his name, and that is stated as being 666 in Rev. 13:18. So 666 is not the name or the mark of the beast. It is the number of the beast.

There is no scriptural proof that the 'Restrainer/Hinderer is the church/body of Christ. There is no scriptural proof that the144,000 chosen Jews will be Evangelists who will travel around the world re-Evangelizeing a new body of Christ after the resurrection. There is no where in the bible where the seven year period is called or where the words "seven years of tribulation". The "number of souls standing before the throne of God that no man can count" in chapter 7 of the book of Revelation are not the converts of the 144,000 because a number which no man can count is more then there are people living on this earth today which 6.2 or 3 billion. And we know that man is capable of counting up to a trillion and beyond. Which means that the "number that no man can count" who are standing before the throne of God. Who came out of Great Tribulation are all of the souls that have died in the name of Christ for the past two thousand years. Which is why no man can count their number. Only God knows their number.

So many who believe in the pre-trib concept just lo0ve to quote 2 Thess. 2:7-8 skipping verses 1-6 which say the exact opposite of what the pre-tribbers teach. What does it say? Verses 1 and 2 are talking about the "day of Christ/resurrection day" and then verse 3 says " Let no man DECIEVE you by any means: for THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME unless there is a falling away first and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition"

Sound to me like the resurrection will not come until the antichrist is revealed to us.