Christian Theocracy

[thesorgo]

I partly agree and partly disagree.

I would like to see my country, England, become solely a Christian nation. Now, I don't believe you can force Christian belief on anyone....it is a work of the Holy Spirit.

But I would like to see ALL mosques, hindu temples, TM centres and the like BANNED and demolished, as they were in ancient Israel.......that way, people wouldn't be so tempted to go into these religions.

It was when Israel compromised and allowed pagan worship in their land, that they went downhill.

Having only the Christian gospel taught is the best way to give them the best possible chance, in my opinion.

I hope, for the sake of England that you never arise to any positian of power. What you describe is basically forcing people to believe in Christianity. It's like putting a man in a room and only feeding him one chicken and witholding even the existance of all other meat from him. When asked what is his favorate meat its invariably going to be chicken.

By the way has anyone seen V for Vendetta?

It is a very good example of a theocracy dystopia.

[thesorgo]

What you are saying at the start of your post, oh so describes the hypocracy in any religion. I often wonder if the people talking as you have related are really Christians or are they just having a weak moment.

The world is changing, changing in ways it has never been subjected to before, Islamic extremist and Islamic intolerances are a very clear, present day indication, of how ALL religions are going to become in the near future. It is getting worse and worse with some Christians as you have pointed out.

Obviously a theocracy, one that is mandated, is really a false religion, ...you cant "force" a belief on anyone.

How many times have you heard "why doesnt God show Himself and then we'll know who He is" ... well some will see it happen in Jesus' second coming.

There will actually be a time when Christ will rule for 1,000 years.

Everyone will know who He is.

No one will be able to deny Him.

Then Satan will be freed into the world again, to push his influence on man once again.

This influence will be pushed on people that undeniably know Christ, and even so, some will fall away.

When the people are forced into a religion, that religion will become subject to hate and resentment, we dont have to be physcologists to figure that one out.

I think it is Gods intention to show that,...... after Christs reign (on this earth) ---

I believe He is going to give us every opportunity possible, so man cannot make excuses for denying Him.

And I dare say, watch France and England as they move towards removing religious differences, and see what happens.

The only way a theocratic(?) religion will work is if everyone believes, ...not chooses...

guess who spends eternity with God.

One other point, I dont know how you view this, but, a true Christian, lives to a standard much higher than any law man has to live by. The reality is, laws are there as a bottom line for man to live by, and todays laws are becoming so convoluted and grey, that a Christian should consider their behaviour questionable if they are living their lives within those areas.

I am not looking for a discusion on it, but some good examples would be pornography, having an affair on your spouse, smoking pot, all becoming the accepted norm in society today.

You have come up with a lot of things to talk about.

I think this is going to be an interesting thread

I thank God you have brought up this topic.

Mike2,

Just as in almost all things there is two sides to theocracy..

The Bible says that God, whose name is Jehovah is PERFECT in KNOWLEDGE, Job 36:4, 37:16. This means that God knows the very best way for people to act. If people were not given some instructions every man would eventually end up in death, because, as the Bible says: Man cannot even direct his own step, Jere 10:23.

God does not give commandments just for the fun of it, He gives commandments for our own good, Devt 10:13, Isa 48:17.

Notice how 1Tim 1:9 explains what law is for. Notice, laws are not for good people, but for the unrighteous.

Now, think for a second. If people refuse to obey God's commandments, and continue to foment wars, to kill others, to steal, to lie, how will this earth ever be a perfect paradise to live in??? God MUST remove the ones who are incorrigible in order to bring about good conditions for those who want to live in peace, Notice how Paul puts this thought, Rom 3:5,6. Look at the way Isaiah said a similar thought, Isa 26:10.

About having free will. Does choosing the good way, the right way, deny a person his free will, or is not the choosing of God's way the ultimate of intelligence, because man simply does not always know the right course to take, Prov 28:26, Prov 3:5,6.

There are two types of theocracy. One is a Thearchy: the rule by God. The other is a group of people who claim to have God's authority to rule. I myself would much rather have God as ruler.

Notice some of God's qualifications, ALMIGHTY, OMNISCIENT, GOOD, which is much better than righteous, it means having AGAPE love for His creation. Ps 86:5 says that God is GOOD and ready to forgive. Ps 86:15 says that God is mercifuland gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in loving-kindness and trueness,

Remember that God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten son, Jesus so that all who has faith would not be destroyed, but have everlasting life, John 3:16. How could anyone even dream of having anyone better that our loving God to be the Righteous ruler of His OWN CREATION???

How do you plan on getting God to rule?

[Artemus Prime]

The concept of a Christian Theocracy is an oxymoron...we may be a nation of Christians, but we are most definitely NOT a Christian Nation...

[damo1]

from damo1

those people just need to learn to addapt as best as they can as no matter what one might say we live in a world that is changing to the point wear most turn to secular ways then what some might wish on this topic alone and islam is always going to be around as you wil not be able to demolish this religon no matter how you try to get your head around it these people wil fight these people wil stand up for what they belive in and if you look into islam its self you will see this for your self

this is happening right now in my partners country in the philippines and this throw of group to son of bin laden called abu sayyif wants one part of the philippines as an islamic state

i am being honest hear if this ever happens in my country in Australia to wear the muslems want Australia to be an islamic state i wil stand up and fight for my rights as a chrisitan

as i have seen what these people can do and they wil go out of there way to get there point across and to wear you almost have to bow down and give up your rights these people have shown no respect to the filapino people no matter how you try to look at what you are saying hear people have been killed people have been kidnapped women have been raped even christian single women we have friends pastoring a church wear the heavy fighting has been and these friends are very young my partner has to be very care full when she is visiting this couple and she should not be looking behind her back or wondering when is it going to be my turn as she is a pastor and has to always be very care full and this is not fair when its her own country you expect for them to adapt to abide by our laws and learn to mix in but what do they do when they settle in our countrys they almost want to take over and bring in ther ways sharia law and expect to be heard when they show no respect to the people of the land this is what i do not put up with when i see this with my own eyes

i mean no one no disrespect to what i have shared hear i am only speaking from the heart as it hurts me as a person my self i cant even prottect my own partner yet i have to stand in the gap for her and trusting that my prayers are enough to wear she is being coverd and looked after by god

we have been watching these tapes that my pastor got hear transforming tapes and in these tapes christians share how god changed there citys and villages and share openly how they did this

in one part of FiJi these elders prayed and prayed and rededicated the island and people back to god and when revival hit that island many lives were one over just from sevral deciding enough is enough as it was into witch craft it was a very occultic island and they shared how they approached this so i would reccomend this to any one who wants to see for them selves and hear how others have done this in there own communitys

they are called transforming tapes and you can get this in your christian book store

i wish my country Australia would become a christian state but i know this wil never happen and i am doing my best to be an australian and live in the country as god would expect me to and just respect those around me and go on with my normal life and enjoy the freedom i have in this country to be able to go to church work and worship god the way i want to with out any one telling me how i should be worshiping god this country respects others religons and it has not experianced what other countrys have experianced that is why i love my country and the people in my country as they give people a fair go

from damo1

[Artemus Prime]

A good post, friend...well put and well said! Amen!

[Eliyahuw]

Teh only government God has ever specificly approved is a theocracy. People, including christians, can get mad at me for saying this, but actually in ancient Israel they were supposed to do just what second eve asked about:

Nope whysoblind, God never wanted us to be in a theocracy! EVER. He warned the israelites verse 8:11 - 19.

The people were warned, they disobeyed samuel and insisted upon a theocracy/government. They got what they asked for! A oppressive theocratical government.

1Sa 8:6

[Artemus Prime]

As has been said before, God does not desire a Theocracy; rather, He wants children who willingly choose Him...

[Guest Timothy L]

As has been said before, God does not desire a Theocracy; rather, He wants children who willingly choose Him...

God's sheep do willingly choose him, but that does not negate the fact that God has ordained civil power to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. (Rom 13:4) Now then you must ask yourself what is evil? Is evil what God defines as evil or what man defines as evil?

The reason Christians have been and still are persecuted by various governments is because those governments have redefined good and evil, whereas a lawful civil power will praise them that do good Rom 13:3 And all that truly serve Christ do good!

Edited December 16, 2007 by Timothy L

[Massorite]

I've come across a few people on Worthy who wish that their country was a Christian theocracy, and would in some cases be prepared to fight to make it one. I would argue that it is impossible to have any kind of theocracy which is not also despotic in some sense, because those who don't believe would be forced to live under a Biblical moral law to which, if they objected, they would have no recourse to alter or protest, unlike in a democracy.

When discussions crop up here about the Middle East and Islam, a common argument used against those who are perceived to have any kind of sympathy whatsoever for the Palestinians is, 'How would you like to live under Shari'a law? How would that affect your family, your values, your daughters in particular; how would that affect your rights?' But at the same time, the proponents of this defense would seemingly have no problem with enforcing the Biblically equivalent laws pertaining to marriage, sexuality, lifestyle and freedom of speech on those who believe differently. So the objection to the idea of an Islamic or non-Christian theocracy cannot be founded on the idea that such a system is undemocratic or unjust, because that would be hypocritical: it must be exclusively because Islam is not Christianity, and is therefore wrong (any other reasonable objections to Islamic practices aside).

In the Middle East at the moment, a kind of experiment with a democratic theocracy is being conducted - but personally, I don't believe that such a thing can work in the long term, because a key tenant of democracy is freedom of religion and freedom from religion; and if this is not the case at the level of the constitution, then the system is fundamentally flawed from the get-go. To me, it would seem that the only way a theocracy in any sense of the world could ever be implemented was by a kind of despotism against any non-believing citizens, be it in the form of forced conformity/assimilation, deportation, imprisonment or military/police force.

From what I've learned of Christianity, the question of free will - why God allows his creation to effectively reject salvation and choose hell - is because he wants human beings to be able to think and choose for themselves. In principle, this idea seems incompatible with the idea of a theocracy, because such an institution could not help but forcibly and effectively deny that choice to certain individuals. If we are forced to choose, then there is no choice. And in fact, the Bible seems to recognize that a theocracy might not be the ideal situation - why else are Christians commanded to obey the laws of man at all, rather than endeavoring to move away, live in or create a purely Christian society?

So, the purpose of this thread is to ask whether or not you, as Christians, would prefer to live in a Christian theocracy or not and why; and any problems you might perceive with such a system, assuming for a moment that implementation in your lifetimes through whatever means - be they violent or non-violent - was possible.

The truth is that both Islam and Christianity want to consume the world. The difference is that today Islam wants consume/convert the world by force and if the believers of Christ do it according to the bible it would be done in peace and choice. The Karon justifies violence to further Islam and the bible doesn't.

There is no place written any where in the bible about any separation of church and state because in the old testament the church was the state and if it were up to God we would have nothing but a theocracy. And in the end there will be nothing on this earth but a theocracy which will be run by God and His Son Jesus. Even during the 1000 year reign of Christ the earth will be ruled by Christ using a theocracy. In fact there isn't anything written anywhere in our declaration or constitution that says anything about a separation of church and state. So we either go for it now or we go for it later.

All peoples of the world are forced to obey the laws of their country or change them if they can so what's the difference?

If we had a theocracy in this country we wouldn't have drug smugglers going free and drug enforcers going to jail. We wouldn't be killing one million babies every year, we wouldn't have any satanic religions here, we wouldn't have the crime we have and criminals would be given the right penalties

for their crimes, We would have God everywhere and be far more blessed then we are today.

Who wouldn't want that? For those who wouldn't want to live in a theocracy. They could leave. If I decided that I didn't want to live in America today I could leave and maybe some day I will move to Isreal.

[other one]

Teh only government God has ever specificly approved is a theocracy. People, including christians, can get mad at me for saying this, but actually in ancient Israel they were supposed to do just what second eve asked about: Deport or even execute unbelievers, particularly homosexuals, idolators, occultists(of all forms), and even harlots. Fact is, that is going to be the eternal punishement on judgment day too: eternal death, i.e. "exile" from the presense of God and from his new heaven and new earth. If people had actually obeyed and enforced the law of God in the physical, temporal world, it might be that a lot less people would be spending eternity in the lake of fire.

But the Lord is not done. He will also set up a totalitarian theocracy, in which God himself will be king on earth, during the millenium as well, and every vessel will say "holiness unto the Lord", and the name of Jesus will be on everyone's lips in praise, and the scripture says that he will "rule the nations with a rod of iron", and it also says that he will curse nations that do not go up to worship him.

yes, I am a promoter of a Christian Theocracy, praise Jesus. Here and now if possible, but I will praise him when he comes back personally too. Throw away the Bill of Rights and lets have the ten commandments and the Beattitudes instead. Throw away the pledge of allegiance to the flag of America, and lets all pledge allegiance to the Lamb!

Whysoblind, I can agree with you only in the sense that Jesus must be here for it to work........ in that case "Bring it on" until He gets here..... I don't think it can work out. Instead of having two main political parties, we'd have 15 major denominational groups and ...... oh my, I don't even want to think about that.