Tolerating Gays

[Axxman]

Many people DO make lying an everyday part of their lives, though. It was a HUGE problem for me at one point in my life...it's a very difficult thing to get out of. Many business owners make cheating on their wives a part of their lifestyles, too.

Hey Iryssa...I'm not disagreeing with you on that point. I am contending that you wouldn't give tacit approval to someone like that. If you knew of a shop owner that repeatedly cheated on his wife...I think most moral people would be uncomfortable talking to him, let alone doing business with him. The same with anyone who centers their lifestyle around ANY particular sin. Maybe I'm just different...but I am intolerant of anyone who centers their life around sin.

Indeed, if someone was underhanded in their business dealings, I would avoid their business and tell others to do so as well. But we're not talking about people dealing underhandedly in business, here, we're talking about sin, even when it doesn't affect the way they do business. Many homosexuals are very honest in their business dealings. If a homosexual owned a business that sold the same product as another guy, but the homosexual was more honest in their business dealings, I'd go to the homosexual any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I totally agree that 'sin is sin' and none is greater than another...however...You just differentiated between the sin of a homosexual and the sin of a liar. You said you would rat out the 'shady' business owner...but you would frequent a shop owned by homosexuals because at least the gays were "honest." I'm saying I wouldn't go to either...and I'd tell everyone I know about both of them...lol.

I think it would be illogical to say that one is supporting the homosexual lifestyle by having business dealings with homosexuals: they're going to be homosexuals whether they're making your money or not. Also, EVERYONE who does not make Christ the Lord of their lives is making ungodliness a lifestyle. Which returns me to my original point: you'd better be boycotting ALL unbelievers, if that's your criteria.

Boycotting is a strong word...but I do believe that every Christian should have a copy of their city's Christian business directory. Granted, many of the businesses are only as 'christian' as the fish symbol on the door...but its a good place to start. The first post was in regards to 'knowingly' supporting a business run by gays. My response was that if they "advertised" their perverted sinful lifestyles to their customers then I would not shop there. I am sure I have done business with gays, just not knowingly. I don't lock myself in my house hoping to avoid sinful lifestyles. However, if you are so bold as to flaunt that your lifestyle is built around lying, or cheating, or violence, or sexual perversion, etc, etc, etc... You can expect to lose my support. I will not even give tacit approval.

[Axxman]

Indeed it is accepted as such - Peace, Brother

Thanks for clarifying. I cannot say that I agree with everything you wrote. I do not believe homosexuality is "an abomination" more than any other form of sexual sin. I know Leviticus 18 and 20 uses that phrase, but if you start using Leviticus to back up your position on homosexuality, shortly people are going to ask you why you shave your beard or wear poly-cotton shirts (both of which are forbidden in that same passage, among others). The term "abomination" in the Old Testament was generally used to denote idol worship (worshipping other gods is an abomination unto the Lord, in other words). As such, many scholars consider the homosexuality passages in Leviticus to refer only to homosexual relationships within the context of idol worship - of which there are many fertility cults that would have had just such rituals. I think there are much less problematic passages in the Bible that can be used to speak out against homosexuality.

I also disagree that there is a difference between a sinner and a sinner who revels in their sin. I think we are all sinners regardless, and when we start setting ourselves apart as different to other sinners then we can become prideful and boastful in our own actions, which we have no cause to do, because we are no different to other sinners. However, I do agree that God does not want us to support sinful lifestyles. But we are also to Love our neighbours, and so I go back to my original position and find no problem with shopping at a shop run by gays.

~ Regards, PA

Hey PA...I totally agree that homosexuality is not "the" abomination....it is an abomination. God detests ALL sin...as should we. It was not my intention to single out one sin with my comment.

We have been called to be "set apart." That is not prideful, or boasting...it is a simply stated fact. If we give approval...even tacit approval to sin...how can we be set apart as holy and without blame? Do we have to give approval of gays in order to give them the gospel? Do we have to befriend them, or support their lifestyles before we can approach them about the gospel? I think not. Jesus called people OUT of their lifestyles to follow Him. He didn't go meddling around in their sinfuls lives hoping to build a commaraderie. Jesus called them out...and if they didn't follow Him....he moved on.

Peace

[Iryssa]

I totally agree that 'sin is sin' and none is greater than another...however...You just differentiated between the sin of a homosexual and the sin of a liar. You said you would rat out the 'shady' business owner...but you would frequent a shop owned by homosexuals because at least the gays were "honest." I'm saying I wouldn't go to either...and I'd tell everyone I know about both of them...lol.

Actually, what I'm saying is that I'd hit them on their business if it's their business practices that are going awry. If it's their personal life...well, it's not exactly effective to hit their business.

[forrestkc]

Forrestkc asks,

What if was a gay Christian couple running the store though?

No such thing, mate. that is an oxymoron.......gay christian?? Ya can't be both.

What about greedy Christian, prideful Christian, materialistic Christian, lazy Christian, self-righteous Christian, and so on, those oxymorons as well?

[ayin jade]

Forrestkc asks,

What if was a gay Christian couple running the store though?

No such thing, mate. that is an oxymoron.......gay christian?? Ya can't be both.

Just a quick question, eric, if you don't mind. If a heterosexual says they are Christian, but find themselves tempted into having sex before marriage on multiple occassions, does this make them not Christian????? Just curious.....

Does the heterosexual make it a point to proclaim he is a fornicating christian and is proud of it? Yet an unrepentent gay christian makes the point of proclaiming their sinful state and being proud of it.

[ayin jade]

But there is the other matter of a person who believes in Christ yet wrestles with very strong homosexual urges and may fall now and then. It is not as easy as it seems for us to simply say a person with these temptations is not a Christian.

Such a person is not likely to call themselves a gay christian but rather say they are a christian who struggles with the sin of homosexuality.

[hupo]

The way I see it, is that we are here on earth for a reason. Part of God's plan.

To my understanding, that part, is being a witness.

A witness to God's glory.

A witness...NOT a judge, jury, prosecutor, attorney or lawyer.

A witness, to tell others of God's great gift to us through His son's sacrifice !!

My understanding is there are two main things that God wants of us as His followers, and they are.....

Mat 22:35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him.

Mat 22:36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"

Mat 22:37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.

Mat 22:39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."

Just two rules that all law and the prophets depend on.

Both speak of LOVE. None speak of judgement or criticism.

This would be what I should be witnessing about.....not how good or bad homosexuality, is !

Blessings

[None]

This topic is getting hateful.

[sweetycakes]

Forrestkc asks,

What if was a gay Christian couple running the store though?

No such thing, mate. that is an oxymoron.......gay christian?? Ya can't be both.

Just a quick question, eric, if you don't mind. If a heterosexual says they are Christian, but find themselves tempted into having sex before marriage on multiple occassions, does this make them not Christian????? Just curious.....

Does the heterosexual make it a point to proclaim he is a fornicating christian and is proud of it? Yet an unrepentent gay christian makes the point of proclaiming their sinful state and being proud of it.

That is exactly the crux of the matter, AJ

[eric]

From Paranoid,A,

Just a quick question, eric, if you don't mind. If a heterosexual says they are Christian, but find themselves tempted into having sex before marriage on multiple occassions, does this make them not Christian????? Just curious.....

Jesus said,in John.8:31....If you abide in my word you are truly my disciples and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. frome the bondage of sin..... emphasis mine.

So if a person is involved in any sexual immorality, he/she not abiding in His word, therefore you are still a slave to sin and cannot claim salvation. If a hetrosexual is having sex before before marriag, then they better stop and repent, because they are throwing God's word back in His face.

They are not my words, they are the words of the Lord.