Somewhat Jealous of Islam

[None]

Not avoiding it at all. YES, are are to be of one mind and one spirit. BUT, we aren't. Because we are still fallible human beings. There will never be a true "oneness" of mind and spirit until we are in the kingdom. Again, a glace at all the denominations will show you the truth of that.

[backontrack]

Unity in Islam is an illusion. Why do you think there's such a problem in Iraq right now? Christians may disagree on certain points of human interpretation and doctrine... the various Muslim sects are killing each other over them. Go Unity!

I guess thats why 7,000,000 + Islamic people here are united unlike we are in the USA. You are talking about radical Islamics I am talking about the majority of Islam. Seems to me we should gather together and stop trying to say my religion of Christianity is right. I don't see Baptist Islam or Pentecostal Islam etc. In fact I have been in the presence of Islamic people from different countries and they embrace the same Koran! Without strife or argument and they all pray 5 times a day just about in sequence. Iraq you cannot compare them to Islam in general!

You obviously don't much about Islam. One only needs to study Islamic history to see that Muslims war against each other all the time.

There is NOTHING about Islam to be jealous of.

Exactly. These aren't -extreme- Muslims. These are the Muslims in the areas where the religion was invented (that's right: Invented!). The only reason Muslims in the US, England, and the like arne't just as extreme as their brothers in the founding nations is because unlike the Saudis, Iraqis, Iranis, etc., the Western nations won't tolerate the stoning of those in dissent.

Furthermore, Baptists and Pentacostals also follow a single Bible ( ), so I'm not 100% sure what you're point is.

Yes and the Christians killed the Jews during the crusades as well all religions fight among themselves. Spanish killed in the name of God etc. But the true nature of Islam is total control and domination of other religions or death. We just cannot grasp a one mind one spirit theory environment and as you state it won't happen. Your answer is we all believe in Christ but the bible says we will be in one mind and one spirit. To me that means just like it says one mind not mans teaching. I guess I think less shallow then you and some day see us this way. Christ said it would be why fight it, welcome it, embrace it look forward to it. It will happen! Maybe when you can say I will die for a brother or sister in Christ who I do not even know it then will be truly one mind and one spirit.

[Fraught]

Somewhat Jealous of Islam:

Not the religion but the unity!

Can this be achieved in a Christian environment with some 2,000 different doctrines! Is the writing on the wall here mans involvement in changing and adding to Gods word. It is no wonder we cannot agree on much of anything.

Man need more input here! God really needs to intervene here to straighten us all out and get us back on track!

i hear you, back on track. try thinking of this another way: IMO, the quantifying beliefs listed above that are common to our salvation are indeed unifying. that from God's viewpoint, we are united. it is certainly so from my viewpoint.

you and i and others on this board ARE unified in the body of Christ in the eyes of God. We are 'bone of his bone' and 'flesh of his flesh'. it's okay that we disagree on some relatively unimportant things. these are 'temporary and fleeting'.

to add one more item of credibility to my statement, God said that our ways are not His ways. We know that we do not see ourselves as God sees us. God sees us in the body of Christ. Period! that's unity !!!

[MorningGlory]

They are not necessarily united. They have sects and do great evil to each other just as we've seen in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, etc. in fact they are more willing to do EVIL (to their own people even) for the sake of their religion than we are in Christianity.

I believe God's Hand is at work here however, in that they are more united when it comes to the greater religion and do not consider their countries and cultures to be problems with each other when they are united against what they think is Evil, or the enemy. I believe God does this purposefully to provoke us to Jealousy like you and I dear friend that we as Christians are not as united when it comes to combating Evil.

Just my two cents.. I could be wrong.

Well, you're absolutely correct about muslim's lack of cohesiveness. They kill each other all the time. Think: sunni vs shia. I mean, what's to disagree about with them? They only have ONE false prophet so what is the argument???

[Guest shiloh357]

Your answer is we all believe in Christ but the bible says we will be in one mind and one spirit. To me that means just like it says one mind not mans teaching. I guess I think less shallow then you and some day see us this way. Christ said it would be why fight it, welcome it, embrace it look forward to it. It will happen!

What you are talking about is not true unity; it is called uniformity of thought. Unity is not the absence of diversity. In fact, unity finds its value in our ability to be of one mind despite differences. Being of "one mind" does not mean we agree on every point of theology or whatever. It means we are one in purpose.

[Smalcald]

Somewhat Jealous of Islam:

Not the religion but the unity!

Can this be achieved in a Christian environment with some 2,000 different doctrines! Is the writing on the wall here mans involvement in changing and adding to Gods word. It is no wonder we cannot agree on much of anything.

Man need more input here! God really needs to intervene here to straighten us all out and get us back on track!

I would like to see more of us agree on some common doctrinal issues. We have the ecumenical creeds for this very purpose.

But Islam is deeply divided. I think most Protestant Christians are united in the belief that true faith in the Risen Christ, the Trinity and a sincere desire to follow His way as outlined in Holy Scripture will indeed unite us in salvation with all other Christian believers. In the Islamic world many Sunni and Shia believe the other is bound for hell and also are so split that they are still killing each other over their split. We did kill one another over our splits, but on a large scale that ended centuries ago.

I envy some of Islam in that most Muslims are not wishy washy about what they believe and are truly willing to sacrifice for their faith, I also envy the fact that they don't tolerate decadence and debauchery within their societies. I don

[John was an Apostle]

Somewhat Jealous of Islam:

Not the religion but the unity!

Can this be achieved in a Christian environment with some 2,000 different doctrines! Is the writing on the wall here mans involvement in changing and adding to Gods word. It is no wonder we cannot agree on much of anything.

Man need more input here! God really needs to intervene here to straighten us all out and get us back on track!

Well I think that it's an exaggeration that "We cannot agree on much of anything". In order to call yourself a Christian, you, by definition, need to believe certain "Core Principles" about the Christian faith (e.g., the Diety and salvation of Christ).

Everything else though: Do we need to be in agreement on everything? It would be nice I suppose, but we have the most important kind of unity the way it is. As far as other doctrinal issues (not pertaining to the principles of the Christian faith), I don't think it's absolutely necessary that we take our time in unifying all Christians on them (like they do in Islam). That time could be used to help witness to others and so forth.

[damo1]

from damo1

i had to see where this was going before i even added anything to this and know i see wear its going and what some have said on this hear is my i cents worth over my dead body

i left something in another post and i wil put this in this post as well i do not beleive we wil ever walk in unity while they allow them selves to follow a lunatic allah is not a true god he is an occultic leader let me say it one more time so know trys to get me to explaine my self again he is a lunatic and i wil not put my hand out until they

1 denounce this lunatic as a flase god

2 burn what ever they have

3 help the armed forces bring in bin laden and his follwers

4 say sorry to the rest off the world for the pain and inocent people they killed with their own hands

5 say sorry to the american people for what happend on 9 /11

stop fighting with the fialpino army wear my partner lives in the philippines and surrender their arms and abide by the law of the land they live in

6 openly repent and ask for forgivness

when all immams all muslims all scholars of their faith openly admit allah is not a true god and state openly to the rest of the world that what they hold so close to their heart is all false and say a sinceer heart felt appology then and only then will i as a christian put my hand out toward my muslims brothers and sisters and walk in unity with them

these dim wits have bought this on their own heads its by their own hands that many lives have been lost and they can undo what ever damage they have done by them selves and show the rest of the world that they are real about walking in unity

that means stop stoning as this is not our way or how we show justice

all their women are told to not cover them selves and are allowed to have their own voice and that means the men start to learn to treat their women with a little more respect and get of their lazy behind and help with the meals and looking after the kids instead of depending on the women to do all the work while they just bliudge

my partner should not have to walk in fear in her own country wondering when i a bomb is going to go off on a bus or on a boat she catches to viset her friends in her own country so far sevral bombs have gone off

hear are some facts on this lunatic from the notes i have from the Quran its self and the hadith which is what most scholars and young and old male muslims study so its not just hot air comming from me to this topic that was posted hear and then tell me wil you walk in unity when all they want is sympathy from us

hear is something that will make you think twice as this is from this lunatics own words passed on to the muslims and the hindus are know even taking on what it says in the Quran

Quran 4 - 34

orders a man to beat his wife if she does not obey him

men are the maintainers of women because allah has made some of them excel others and because they spend out of their property the good women are their for obediant gaurding the unsen as allah has guarded as to this on whoes part you fear desertion

admonish them and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them then if they obey you do not seek away against them surley allah is high great

Qran 3,90

but those who reject faith after they accepted it and then go on adding to their defiance of faith never will their repentance be accepted for they are those who have gone astray

in the hadiths most scholars and muslim males have even young ones it says this

so were ever you find them kill them for there will be a reward for their killers on the day of ressurection

that means we are seen as ubelivers and its pointed at every single human being in each part of the world

eradication of isalm means this restoring peace among humanity and civildty democracy and prosperity in the muslim world

but as you know and as i know this will never happen while they bow down to a lunatic who does not deserve to be a good i have told sevral hear to stop worshiping a false lunatic and nothing has been said back to me as this is how i see allah a false lunatic who should not be called a god and the world should not be putting up with this trick that i feel it is just so they can go on doing what they have been so use to doing

instead today islam is the most hated and criticised religon and the quran is being called the manual of terroism

islamic terrorism will continue to induer mankind and create misery on earth until islam ceases to exist

instead of giving up like most have we should be walking in unity with each other and supporting each other and not coming against each other and praying and going into war fair and saying enough is enough we should have the guts to stand up for what we beleive in and let the muslims know we mean business and not do what the cathlic church is doing and that is bowing down to these lunatics let them kill me i do not care as their is only one true god and that is the one who we worship and beleive in other wise jesus death on the cross would have been in vain

oh when are we going to wake up to this and start to stand up for our rights we do it hear in my country i dont bow down to them i tell them to their face their god is a lunatic and their is not a thing they can do as they know if they start doing what has been done by their own kind in other countrys to christians their will be trouble and all muslims have been warned and even immams we will let them worship their lunatic god but when they push or if they start to winge and want sharia law then we will act

so i hope my point is very clear on wear i as a fellow brother stand on this and as i said over my dead body will i put the hand out

while their women suffer for no reason all to a false book that has been written by clowns

the gospel we read brings freedom it sets people free it brings familys together we dont teach our mails to be terrorists and go and plant bombs wear their are people this gospel sets people free their gospel places heavy burdens on inocent people

that is all i am going to say on this

peace from damo1 damien

[dakota190]

Somewhat Jealous of Islam:

Not the religion but the unity!

Can this be achieved in a Christian environment with some 2,000 different doctrines! Is the writing on the wall here mans involvement in changing and adding to Gods word. It is no wonder we cannot agree on much of anything.

Man need more input here! God really needs to intervene here to straighten us all out and get us back on track!

i feel the point needs to be made. those of the islamic faith, who you feel are more united in their faith than the christians. are so busy in their tribal warfare they only yell for unity behind allah when someone draws a cartoon about him or his nine year old wife or his fears of being possessed by a demon are brought out. saddam i believe was a sunni, who is a minority in their world, well they are trying to kill off the shite, the shite are trying to kill the sunni. saddam was trying to exterminate the kurds in the north of the country. the kurds are now known to he crossing into turkey and attacking that islamic sect or tribe that is predominate in that region. the saud family house and practice the wahabi brand of Islam which is reported to be the most violent brand. those that practice this brand of islam hate all of the others and feel they are all inferior and apostate. they are known to export their brand of wahabi islam openly and willingly across the globe. they are not the friends our govt. tries to convince us they are. we just have business agreements with them that relate to oil and the dollar being propped up by one or more of those agreements.

we won't even go into the murder of family members for converting to christianity. or the honor killings if a female is found in a position the men of the family find embarassing, such as her being forcibly raped. in most cases they feel she did not resist enough so they stone her to death or stab her or just beat and kick her until she dies. or how about bodily mutilations for various reasons that i am not going to describe here. some for theft, that cost a hand and some that will cost the person his eyes, one or both. some upon young girls just because of some old twisted tradition.

these are just a small sample of the types of things that are going on in the islamic world. there is starvation, genocide, repression, corruption of their governments, leaving no regard for the people. the palestinians that used to be under the rule of the Israeli's, tell of having more freedom and security and overall better lives, before the palestinian's took control.

i understand that i have expounded beyond your original comparison, but i hope that i showed you a little of what they really do to members of their own families by their own hands. some of what they do to members of their tribes and sects, and that does not include their attitudes towards others, especially those non-muslims in muslim lands.

don't be fooled they are not at peace with each other, especially not with other sects of their own faith.

i recommend you just look at how they treat their daughters and wives and how they forbid them to be educated. there is much more to know of the islam faith. i did not mean this as an instruction in some of the facets of islam. it is listed the way it is, in order show you they don't have any unity in their faith, different sects, or in their lives. now some will argue all are not this way. that is alright, argue away.

not to beat a dead horse, what we don't need here is more input from man. he is already trying to draw christianity away from the worship of God and into the worship of the journey and experience. he is already changing the focus from God to other gods and to man being the center. we do as you have said, need God to straighten us out. he gives us choices and he attempts to guide us, at least to the extent we accept him. ultimately it is our choice. the question is will we use it wisely?

[poorinspirit]

Somewhat Jealous of Islam:

Not the religion but the unity!

Can this be achieved in a Christian environment with some 2,000 different doctrines! Is the writing on the wall here mans involvement in changing and adding to Gods word. It is no wonder we cannot agree on much of anything.

Man need more input here! God really needs to intervene here to straighten us all out and get us back on track!

Actually, you may have to show the scriptures for action of unity to be on the believer from the Bible. Here's what I have found in scriptures to indicate that the action for unity is on the Father. If you read John 17th chapter, Jesus addresses the need as well as to the Person that can do it to be the Father. This prayer is not addressed towards the believers at all.

John 17: 1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do....10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.....18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

See what I mean? All of chapter 17 is directed to the Father to do that. So you wonder.. what are we suppose to do then?

John 6: 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So how does one have unity in the faith?

Ephesians 4:1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

So then unity is a work in progress of the Faither in us coming to the unity in the faith in Christ. There is a need to prune dead works... to debunk deceitful doctrines....to correct a brother in a trespass and if he does not listen... bring two or three witnesses..and if he still does not listen, bring him before the congregation... and if he does not hear the entire congregation, excommunicate him as Jesus taught. Newbies has a tendency to be led astray and refuse to see the error until it is shown to him how serious the error is even though he cannot see it by putting him out.

Matthew 18: 14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

More proof that one should not ignore it and just go on with the routine for the sake of unity, hoping sonewhere down the road, he'll see the light and be corrected by the Lord?

2 Thessalonians 3: 1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. .......13But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. 14And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. 16Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord be with you all.

So we see here why fellowship with workers of iniquity is not pleasing to God if done just for unity sake.

2 Corinthians 6: 14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

So there is a need to keep the faith and not allow hersey to mislead others from that faith. That is the good fight; not keeping the unity. If we are all of the same faith.... then there is automatic unity.

2 Timothy 4:1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Anyway, just sharing that keeping the faith is far more important to me than unity... and believe me, I need My Good Shepherd to help me do that!

Edited October 13, 2007 by poorinspirit