Unscriptural Hymnals In Worship

[poorinspirit]

How is God glorified?

John 13: 31Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

John 17: 1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Where is the Holy Spirit to be glorified in all of this? Yes, He is God, but on the subject of worship and glory and praises in the hymnals, where is the Holy Spirit to be gloried, or to be praised, or to be worshipped? I cannot find that practise anywhere in the New Testament. What I do find is HOW one worship... as IN Spirit... not OUT of Spirit.

John 4: 18For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. 19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Notice how He pointed out whom the "true worshippers" are? Is that significant enough to apply with these verses below about going to a place where Christ is.. or that "Spirit of Christ" when we are to worship God IN Spirit and not OUT of Spirit, calling for the "Spirit of God" to fall on them?

Matthew 24: 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

2 Corinthians 13: 5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But yet, we can see in some of the hymnals how one can disregard God's Words and just follow the crowd.

Again, is it not written for a reason why the Holy Spirit is not mentioned in regards to glorying God as God with the Father and the Son? Is it not written to baptize in all of the three names? And yet, God the Father is only glorified througth the Son. By glorifying the Son, so id the Father. Where is the Holy Spirit in all of this glorying?

John 16: 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Now note... same author.. same book... so I do not believe the absent of worshipping the Holy Spirit or glorifying the Holy Spirit with God the Father and the Son was an oversight. Why?

John 5: 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

So when you stop honoring the Son....you are not honouring the Father. The Holy Spirit seeks to glorify the Son and tesify of Him, and so it is written plainly for us to do also.

John 15: 26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

So from this, true worshippers should worship God in Spirit and in truth, and our hymnals should reflect that faith so as to not glory in the day of Pentecoste as if it is an ongoing event in the life of a believer. We can baptize in the name of the Father, the son, and the Holy Ghost as a witness that the three are One God, BUT scriptures declare how we are to worship and praise and give glory to God.

Philippians 2: 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

How we sing and what we sing from our hymnals should reflect the faith we have in Jesus Christ as we worship God IN Spirit and IN truth...for truly, the only way to honor the Father is through the Son and the only way to glorify the Father is through the Son, thus worshipping God IN Spirit and IN truth. If that is what the Holy Spirit in us is doing in glorifying the Son and bearing testimony of the Son, then so should we. Why give praises or worship or glory to the Holy Spirit if the indwelling Comforter does not seek it nor is it written in His Word for us to do so?

How important is this? As some reported getting drunk in the Spirit when they worship the Spirit to the extreme in its visitations...take note of verse 26 below.

Luke 13: 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

I know that not everyone that sing those errant hymnals go in that direction, but no one can say that those hymnals don't point people in that direction... so why sing the hymnals that broadens the Way? According to His Words, let our hymnals reflect our faith so that none may go astray.

[nebula]

I can appreciate your zeal, but I do not know which hymnals you are referring to.

[Guest shiloh357]

Would you mind citing the hymns and their text to show us which ones you are thinking to be unscriptural?

[poorinspirit]

I can appreciate your zeal, but I do not know which hymnals you are referring to.

Hi nebula!

I have seen them in the hymnals, but I shall point a few out for you & shiloh357.

"Praise God, from Whom All Blessings Flow" which is also known as the "Doxology". I know shiloh has asked for text, but I am not certain I should show all of it, but I think I am allowed to point to the error. In the last verse, it starts from praising the Father and the Son.. and then went on to the Holy Ghost.

Doxology

Another one is entitled: "Glorify Thy Name" by Donna Adkins. There are three stanzas. I have sung it on numerous times in the past, but towards the latter days of my attending my former church before I left, I was convicted to not singing that last verse that the Lord through Holy Spirit in me did not want me to do according to His Words. entire text at this link:

"Glorify Thy Name" By Donna Adkins

I'll let the Lord guide you and shiloh357 in discerning other hymns in regards to the Holy Spirit. I'm sure if you look in the table of content with the listing of hymns, you would find some centered on the Holy Spirit by the title alone! It does not reflect our faith if believers are singing it to happen!

O Holy Spirit, Enter In

Spirit of Faith, Come Down

Spirit of God, Descend Upon Our Heart

Spirit of God, That Moved of Old

Spirit of Holiness, Descend

Anyway, these hymnals are misleading as even some believers are praying to the Holy Spirit, and why not? The hymnals do it! But His Words say the indwelling Holy Spirit seeks to point us to Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the Comforter as Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and man.

That is why some of the hymnals are unscriptural, and do not represent the current faith of the believer.

A little leaven leavens a whole lump.

[damo1]

from damo1

you some how seem to not explaine your self or just want to state bible pasages that only mean somthing toyou and i think not many will agree with the way you state things or point things out

which seems to puzzle me to what you as a person is trying to say hear alone the father the son and the holy spirit work in as a team we can not go only hearing what we want to hear and leave out bits to the side and say it means nothing to me

worship has its place and all hyms that have been written and printed in books for churches to have are to inspire people look at psalms david wrote most of the psalms and some are even sung today in some churches

hyms have their place but i am not a fan of hyms my self i love two old hyms amazing grace and that old rugged cross

these two hyms mean something to me as a person i use more up beat style worship in church as i also play the guitar and in my church we have stopped singing hymms and use stuff like from hill song and around the world

you seem to be confused and by quoting these bible verses and making these statents it shows me you have no respect for the holy spirit but wil only acept what you are reading with out hearing this from some one who is more sound minded and comited and is submisve

the holy spirit helps us to open up to god and he helps us to praise god it can not be men praising god

with out the holy spirit the words i read in the living word of god will be like falling on death ears and wil mean nothing

the holy spirit has even inspired me to write sevral of my own worship songs one which i am working on know with a friend and it will be sung in church

if i was you i would be asking this question why am i thinking like this i am not trying to correct you but we are reading the same bible i am an x felon and its very clear to me when i read it in its full tex and not only hear what i want to hear

another song i like is this one as the deer pants for the water so my soul thirst after thee you alone are my brother

and another song i like to sing openly is jesus lover of my soul my redemer lives and many more insperaional worship songs

you need to get to a point wear you also alow you self to have a teach able spirit and then you wil get your answer to what you have asked hear alone in this topic i belive in straight talking and not just alowing my head to do the talking

any way i am sure you will find what you are seeking for

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Poor,

I think I understand where you're coming from in your preaching, but I don't agree. You are saying that we should not praise or worship the Holy Spirit individually, but you are making a whole case and sermon from a misunderstanding. The Holy Spirit glorifies the Son, that is one of His jobs and He (the Holy Spirit) is as much G-d as the Father and the Son. They are all equally G-d. Three in One.

There is nothing UNscriptural about worshiping G-d, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Also, we don't use hymnals

[Fraught]

i see where you're coming from - the title of those hymns do suggest that they are a prayer to the Holy Spirit. altho my church does not sing hymns, i have heard modern christian songs that imply the same thing.

upon first glance at the title of your post, i thought you might be, (how should i say it?) i don't know i guess but i mean when a person is too focused on small details that don't matter and not the larger good issue - anyway . . .

going on to read thru it, i see that the topic is important because i know many people whose sole knowledge of what the bible teaches does actually come from christian songs that they know.

that said, i believe, however, that new christians do learn and grow with time and God's help and i thank God that he judges us on the learning we do have and that he knows our teachers are not perfect. but it just goes to show you that even with something as seemingly innocent as a song, we must search the scriptures.

[Fraught]

Shalom Poor,

I think I understand where you're coming from in your preaching, but I don't agree. You are saying that we should not praise or worship the Holy Spirit individually, but you are making a whole case and sermon from a misunderstanding. The Holy Spirit glorifies the Son, that is on of His jobs and He (the Holy Spirit) is as much G-d as the Father and the Son. They are all equally G-d. Three in One.

There is nothing UNscriptural about worshiping G-d, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Also, we don't use hymnals

thanks, vickilynn - i was wondering about those hymnals. i haven't seen an hymnal in use church for some time now. i was wondering if i was maybe in the wrong place.

i like your reply - it makes me think of one song in particular - How Great is our God. it does go on the describe our great God as "the Godhead, three in one . . . ." nothing wrong with that

[angels4u]

How is God glorified?

John 13: 31Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

John 17: 1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Where is the Holy Spirit to be glorified in all of this? Yes, He is God, but on the subject of worship and glory and praises in the hymnals, where is the Holy Spirit to be gloried, or to be praised, or to be worshipped? I cannot find that practise anywhere in the New Testament. What I do find is HOW one worship... as IN Spirit... not OUT of Spirit.

John 4: 18For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. 19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Notice how He pointed out whom the "true worshippers" are? Is that significant enough to apply with these verses below about going to a place where Christ is.. or that "Spirit of Christ" when we are to worship God IN Spirit and not OUT of Spirit, calling for the "Spirit of God" to fall on them?

Matthew 24: 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

2 Corinthians 13: 5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But yet, we can see in some of the hymnals how one can disregard God's Words and just follow the crowd.

Again, is it not written for a reason why the Holy Spirit is not mentioned in regards to glorying God as God with the Father and the Son? Is it not written to baptize in all of the three names? And yet, God the Father is only glorified througth the Son. By glorifying the Son, so id the Father. Where is the Holy Spirit in all of this glorying?

John 16: 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Now note... same author.. same book... so I do not believe the absent of worshipping the Holy Spirit or glorifying the Holy Spirit with God the Father and the Son was an oversight. Why?

John 5: 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

So when you stop honoring the Son....you are not honouring the Father. The Holy Spirit seeks to glorify the Son and tesify of Him, and so it is written plainly for us to do also.

John 15: 26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

So from this, true worshippers should worship God in Spirit and in truth, and our hymnals should reflect that faith so as to not glory in the day of Pentecoste as if it is an ongoing event in the life of a believer. We can baptize in the name of the Father, the son, and the Holy Ghost as a witness that the three are One God, BUT scriptures declare how we are to worship and praise and give glory to God.

Philippians 2: 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

How we sing and what we sing from our hymnals should reflect the faith we have in Jesus Christ as we worship God IN Spirit and IN truth...for truly, the only way to honor the Father is through the Son and the only way to glorify the Father is through the Son, thus worshipping God IN Spirit and IN truth. If that is what the Holy Spirit in us is doing in glorifying the Son and bearing testimony of the Son, then so should we. Why give praises or worship or glory to the Holy Spirit if the indwelling Comforter does not seek it nor is it written in His Word for us to do so?

How important is this? As some reported getting drunk in the Spirit when they worship the Spirit to the extreme in its visitations...take note of verse 26 below.

Luke 13: 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

I know that not everyone that sing those errant hymnals go in that direction, but no one can say that those hymnals don't point people in that direction... so why sing the hymnals that broadens the Way? According to His Words, let our hymnals reflect our faith so that none may go astray.

Do you believe in the Trinity?

I don't understand where you are coming from ,do you mind sharing which church you go?

[poorinspirit]

Shalom Poor,

I think I understand where you're coming from in your preaching, but I don't agree. You are saying that we should not praise or worship the Holy Spirit individually, but you are making a whole case and sermon from a misunderstanding. The Holy Spirit glorifies the Son, that is on of His jobs and He (the Holy Spirit) is as much G-d as the Father and the Son. They are all equally G-d. Three in One.

There is nothing UNscriptural about worshiping G-d, Father, Sin and Holy Spirit.

Also, we don't use hymnals

Then what about John 5:22,23 then? That is our job too. If the Holy Spirit is the Divine Witness pointing us to Christ Jesus, don't you think we should look to Whom He is pointing to? There is no scriptures to say we are to worship or glorify the Holy Spirit, but there are scriptures that specifically state how to glorify the Father and honor Him too... only through the Son.. and it meant that because the moment you stop honouring the Son... you are not honouring the Father and as the Holy Ghost will not take the place of Christ in the worship place... that spirit of antichrist.... the definition of antichrist means "instead of Christ" will move in to take that spotlight that everybody is worshipping God.. not In Spirit and not In truth.... thus departing from the faith.

All invitations points to Jesus for that reason. Just so you know.