Homosexual marriage

[followerofjesus]

Selective morality is being used when a person says its ok for their kids to be gay as well. We will still love them. Noone can question the love someone has for their children because even those of the world love their own.

Christianity is a selective morality which requires us to follow in that through faith the law that was passed by Moses.

Non -christians have a selective morality which leads to gay marriage among other sins.

No throwing stones just judging righteously by fruits. It is the Lords place to judge but even we are to be able to judge the smallest matters .

[HisMindinme]

I know this is a long post, but please just read all the way through before dismissing me as something less than Christian. I will probably catch a great deal of resistance for what I am about to share, but everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions. I mean no disrespect or offense to anyone. I respect each of your opinions without harshness or ridicule, so please give me the same respect and consideration.

First and foremost . . . YES, I AM A CHRISTIAN!

I know some very fine homosexual friends who absolutely love God, worship God and attend church regularly. I also know some very fine heterosexual friends who want absolutely nothing to do with God or church.

Why is it that when others aren't living quite the way we Christians think they should be living we immediately quote all sorts of scripture to them in an attempt to get them back on the right track? However, when we Christians aren't living quite the way others think we should be living as Christians we can somehow justify our actions with the same scripture we used against their actions?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

The Christian world in general tends to agree that the unrighteous, idolaters, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers and extortioners will not inherit the kingdom of God. However, when it comes to fornicators, adulterers, homosexuals or sodomites inheriting the kingdom of God there is vast disagreement. The Bible teaches that God is not a haphazard God. He is a God of order, so please notice the order of things in this scripture. He mentions the adulterer before He mentions the homosexual. Significant? Not sure!

In Matthew 5:32 Jesus Himself says, "Whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery." Then, He says again in Matthew 19:9, "Whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery." So, if marrying a divorced person causes us to commit adultery, does that mean we are living a sinful life as long as we stay married to that divorced person? And, does that mean we will go to hell if we are married to that divorced person when we die? I'm talking about Christians who marry and divorce after becoming Christians.

Why do so many Christians believe it is not sin to be divorced for reasons other than adultery, but it is sin for anyone to be in love with someone of the same sex? I have always been taught that there is no one sin greater than another. Sin is sin in the eyes of God. So, if sin is sin, how can so many Christians justify adultery through divorce, but condemn love through homosexuality? Do people draw their beliefs from the majority rules concept, or do they draw them from crossing whatever moral lines they want justification for?

Too many heterosexual Christians today enter marriage with the idea that if things don't work out they'll just get a divorce. They somehow explain away the scriptures about divorce in an attempt to justify themselves in order to stay right with God. The general consensus of this Christian society has accepted irreconcilable differences as an appropriate cause for divorce, but according to Jesus the only acceptable cause for divorce is adultery!

Many married heterosexual Christians cannot stay in a committed, loving, monogamous relationship, but they condemn the homosexual who can. Sounds like a pretty messed up double standard if you ask me. I must let you be you, and you must let me be me. And, we must all let God be God. We must let God work out all our kinks. It is not up to us to judge. We don't always have to agree, but we must always let others live their own convictions without taking offense or passing judgment.

What do I believe about homosexuality? Well, I know what the Bible says about it. I have read those scriptures more times than I can remember, however, because of the many different human Bible translations these days, I am not convinced that they actually mean what tradition says they mean. I don't believe all homosexual feelings are lustful. And, I have a very difficult time believing that God will send someone to hell for simply being in love with someone of the same sex. His mercy endures forever!

I just cannot wrap my compassion or my understanding around God not approving of real love. Now, I'm not talking about lustful experimentation. I am talking about genuine, monogamous love.

HIS mercy endures forever!

Mat 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithes of mint and dill and cummin, and you have left undone the weightier matters of the Law, judgment, mercy, and faith. You ought to have done these and not to leave the other undone.

You are railing against Christian hypocrisy to justify sin. You're using people as the basis of justification instead of the Word of God as-is. Sin is sin including homosexuality. You wrapping homosexuality in "loving marriage" of two men or two women is simple human justification. It is not what the Bible says, it is not what the Word of God says, it is not what the Spirit says. Simple.

The issue is true: what you say of divorce and remarriage. Whereas, a man or woman can be forgiven is a matter of debate, two men living in a homosexual lifestyle are by very definition living out of their natural minds and not the mind of Christ. Hear the Word of the Lord Jesus:

Mat 12:31 Therefore I say to you, All kinds of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.

So, there is forgiveness for those who repent, whether they claim to be Christians and fall or otherwise. However, the same cannot be said in an attempt to justify an ongoing homosexual relationship.

Sin is sin. Simple. Homosexuality is a human debase mental perversion of God's intent in creating male and female. I have walked the edges of this lifestyle and can tell you first hand -- it is NOT the mind of Christ in me. Homosexuality is MY own natural carnal wicked mind, not His mind. By walk the edges, I mean in my past I have participated in homosexual sex. Hanging a label of monogamy on it is like putting a pretty bow on a pig in slop. You can dress the pig up, but it's still a pig. You can dress up my, your and others natural minds, but they are still natural, wicked, enslaved to sin and lust. ONLY the mind of Christ imparted, implanted, inscribed and renewed and born IN me by HIS Spirit working, has the capacity to be free from the sin and lust in and of my flesh (your flesh, their flesh, anyone's flesh).

Continue in your mind and you'll die in your sins. Leave off your mind, see the bankruptcy of it, mourn it and walk towards receiving the mind of Christ, His word, mind and thoughts IN you and you'll have the results of HIS mind --> Life, Truth and Peace ... plus so much more of God.

Finally, do not say that practicing homosexuals love God and are Christians who attend church as though they are. Anyone practicing these things has NOT the mind of Christ.

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another; males with males working out shamefulness, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error. Rom 1:28 And even as they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right,

Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers,

Rom 1:30 backbiters, haters of God, insolent, proud, braggarts, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Rom 1:31 undiscerning, perfidious, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful;

Rom 1:32 who, knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but have pleasure in those practicing them.

You yourself are in danger of that last verse there (remember this is the Word of God - the mind of Christ). You are having pleasure in those practicing them (see verse 27 -- men leaving the natural use of the woman and burnd in lust toward one another, males with males working out shamefulness ...).

You point an accusing finger at Christians committing adultery and divorce and rightfully so. However, you leave out forgiveness and you attempt to justify practicing homosexuals by the hypocrisy of others (I am saying this again on purpose). Yet, you yourself are in deep violation against the mind of Christ in the inspired words of the Spirit written through the hand of Paul, a proven man of God with the mind of God in him.

Please, please, please reconsider your position and heart before the Lord! See how what you have written is written from your own bankrupt human mind and not the mind of Christ (realizing I am speaking as a man). The best I can do is point you at the scripture and say to you what I see of it. I am laying aside my mind -- the deepest proof is that I have walked in those homosexual shoes and know it first hand. So, dear brother or sister (I know not which as I have not looked), please reconsider of what mind you are: your own or His.

RE: Divorce and Remarriage

The ONLY worthy question is: What does Jesus think? What is the mind of Christ on the matter?

Joh 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that says to you, Give Me to drink, you would have asked of Him, and He would have given you living water.

Joh 4:11 The woman said to Him, Sir, you have no vessel, and the well is deep. From where then do you have that living water?

Joh 4:12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank of it himself, and his children and his cattle?

Joh 4:13 Jesus answered and said to her, Whoever drinks of this water shall thirst again,

Joh 4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst, but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Joh 4:15 The woman said to Him, Sir, give me this water, so that I may not thirst nor come here to draw.

Joh 4:16 Jesus said to her, Go, call your husband and come here.

Joh 4:17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said to her, You have well said, I have no husband

Joh 4:18 for you have had five husbands, and he whom you now have is not your husband. In that you spoke truly.

In verse 10, Jesus says plainly to this woman His openness to offer her "living water". The living water is the Spirit of God in her for the purpose of putting HIS mind in her. He's offering her salvation.

Now -- notice -- Jesus brings up the matter of multiple marriage (divorce and remarriage) DIRECTLY. This is no accident. He knew her. He in HIS mind, speaking from the things and the works of the Father, saw CLEARLY her cycles of divorce and remarriage. Yet, HE offers her living water -- salvation.

He is NOT approving or validating her sin. He's operating in His heart -- forgiveness! His message is yet still the same: REPENT! And "Whom the Son sets free is free indeed!" Again -- "Neither do I condemn thee. Go and sin no more!" <-- to the woman CAUGHT IN ADULTERY!

My heart is towards you in mercy and in grace. Examine yourself. Test your own self. See the truth of your own self as you are before Him. Try your own self and see if you are in the faith. See if you are speaking/typing from the mind of Christ or from your own mind: naturual, wicked, enslaved to the lusts of your own sin-filled flesh. Of which mind are you? This is the question for you to ask of your own self.

[Guest LadyC]

no sin should be given a free pass. it is purely combative to even suggest i implied otherwise.

[HisMindinme]

no sin should be given a free pass. it is purely combative to even suggest i implied otherwise.

Here! Here! (amen)

From where do fightings and divisions among you come, do they not come from the lusts of your flesh? -- James

Be sure to check out that telephone pole in your eye before you attempt to pull the sawdust from your brothers eye -- Jesus

[exrockstar]

What do I believe about homosexuality? Well, I know what the Bible says about it. I have read those scriptures more times than I can remember, however, because of the many different human Bible translations these days, I am not convinced that they actually mean what tradition says they mean. I don't believe all homosexual feelings are lustful. And, I have a very difficult time believing that God will send someone to hell for simply being in love with someone of the same sex. His mercy endures forever!

God of love huh?

Take time to read some books in the Old Testament and we'll talk about how merciful He is.

[sweetycakes]

no, that's not what faithpleasesGo said. this is really self explanatory... neither an unbiblical divorce, nor homosexuality, should ever be given a free pass.

What about indifference, should that be given a free pass?

How about greed, should that be given a free pass?

What about pride?

Self-righteousness?

Materialism?

I would imagine that every single one of us attend churches that are full of prideful, greedy, self righteous, and materialistic people, all sins condemned exponentially more in scripture than homosexuality, yet we give them a free pass all the time. If we did not, we would hardly have anyone in Church.

Thats the problem with this selective morality we have. We are so concerned with homosexuality because of how much the idea of it tends to bother us. We are much less concerned with indifference, greed, materialism, pridefulness and so on, because those are traits we pretty much all have.

My wife and I have two kids. I can't tell you how much I love my kids. Words simply do not describe it. Almost every parent feels this way about their children. We love our children so much because God first loved us (John 1 4:19). If one of my kids grew up and discovered they were gay, it would certainly upset me and my wife, but its not like either of us would love them any less because of it. We certainly would not condemn our child to ever lasting damnation simply because they were gay or lesbian. Because we love them that much, and no one that loves their kids would condemn them to hell for that.

I don't know whether or not someone that is gay and has a partner will go to hell or not. Only God knows this. I do know though that God loves us more than we could possibly ever conceive and I know we are all children of God, and I know how much I love my kids, so I can't imagine how much God loves all of us.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

-John 3:16

It does not predicate that with so long as they are not gay, or so long as they don't get a divorce. Those are things that we predicate it with, but as we don't even know the true hearts of men, we certainly should pluck out a handful of verses to condemn those whose lifestyles bother us and thus pretend to know the heart of God.

A very interesting and well-put argument on your part, forrest

You are right to say that we all struggle with these things in our lives.

Nevertheless, I would contend that gay marriage/union is wrong, IMO.

Why?

Because there is a difference between someone who struggles with sin, and knows that it's wrong..........and someone who embraces a sinful lifestyle as a choice, and then proclaims to the world that their choice should be recognised as equal and valid as any other Christian or social norm.

Personally, I find 'gaydom' reprehensible myself. Maybe because I'm a normal, straight guy. But mostly, I think, because it is condemned in scripture. And nature itself is against such things.

I understand fully that the church, in recent years, has tended to focus all her vitriol on homosexuality, and divorce and re-marriage.....whereas sin is sin.

But don't you agree that those who are struggling with sin in whatever form (anger, lust, hate, greed, pride....etc).....are well aware of their shortcomings, and that these things are not in the perfect will of God for their lives, ........whereas those who embrace a homosexual lifestyle generally tend to flaunt their sin, and expect the world to accept their alternative lifestyle?

I struggle with most of the things you've mentioned above, yet I would never state that indulgence in such things is valid or acceptable in God's eyes. I hate and regret my failings in such areas, and ask God's forgiveness and healing.

I firmly believe that what we proclaim in public is a reflection of what we believe and experience in our personal lives, to some degree.........

And I couldn't really imagine a homosexual asking God for His blessings upon their lifestyle.

Rather, I would imagine that such a person would pray that God would heal him/her from such an affliction.

If they are Christian, that is.

[faith pleases God]

Sin is not sin in some regards. In regard to all unrighteousness is sin, all sin is sin.

But not all sin is the same! For example not wearing my seatbelt is sin because I'm not obeying the law of the land. But that by no means is the same as murder.

1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray for him and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying he should pray about that. 5:17 All wrong doing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

What do I believe about homosexuality? Well, I know what the Bible says about it. I have read those scriptures more times than I can remember, however, because of the many different human Bible translations these days, I am not convinced that they actually mean what tradition says they mean. I don't believe all homosexual feelings are lustful. And, I have a very difficult time believing that God will send someone to hell for simply being in love with someone of the same sex. His mercy endures forever!

I just cannot wrap my compassion or my understanding around God not approving of real love. Now, I'm not talking about lustful experimentation. I am talking about genuine, monogamous love.

HIS mercy endures forever!

As far as bible translations, were is our faith in God and Christ that he would not have a hand in the translations of the bible so that we can have the truth as He meant us to have it? People usually say comments like that to discredit the validity of the bible so that they don't have to follow it.

I won't take this statement personal as though you are saying that I am trying to discredit the validity of the Bible so I don't have to follow it, because I know that I have not done that.

I simply do my best with GOD's help to understand the Bible as HE wants me to; not how man thinks I should.

I simply do my best with GOD's help to live according to how HE wants me to; not how man thinks I should.

[freedfromsin]

Homosexual unions are never about love. They are about desires going astray. God makes it clear that humans of opposite sex are to enter into relations under marriage conditions. Anything outside of that is sin. Even our anatomy makes it clear that we are not to be engaged in same sex relations. Homosexual relations are always sin and according to the bible those who practice such will not inherit the kingdom of God. The reason is according to the bible a person cannnot be a Christian and be a practicing homosexual. We are even warned to not be deceived about this;

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

There is no exceptions!

Edited November 23, 2007 by freedfromsin

[kari21]

Homosexual relations are always sin and according to the bible those who practice such will not inherit the kingdom of God. There is no exceptions!

Right on target!