Falling off the wagon

[Yeshua01]

A person who drinks alcohol isn't condemned! In excess it isn't good, and I am assuming that you are talking of an alcoholic who is back to drinking. Anything that controls you other than Jesus is wrong. But that person is still saved. Should a church kick them out? I don't believe so. If that person is in a position of Elder or Deacon, then they need to be removed from that position. If they come to church drunk, well, that needs to be dealt with. But generally, the brothers and sisters need to pray and support each other and help each other where we are weak.

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Nathele

Alcohol can warp the mind which can put us in a selfish confused state, but this does not mean that our Heavenly Father loves us any less. I was a power drinker for over 30 years, but I gave up alcohol in 1997 and it was one of the wisest things I ever did. I did backslide once in 2002 for stupid reasons, but that was one night and it was over. We may fall, but if we turn from our error and repent we will be forgiven. As far as "The Church" removing us, we are the CHURH and our relationship between our Creator and ourselves already has its foundation, Yeshua. If the question is should our human family gathering remove us from the group because we slipped then I would have to think, NO. How can Sinners reject someone because a sin may be revealed openly? We as the body of Christ should be here to embrace and encourage each other, is that what Fellowship is not about? What of those who bare hidden

sins, are they free to judge. As a fellow recovering wagon rider if you fall off the wagon and happen to get trapped uner the wheels pick yourself up, brush yourself off and repent. Our Father loves His children and He does forgive.

My prayers are with you.

[patricia1]

Would Grace cover the overeater who fell off the wagon, would he cover the smoker who just started to smoke again, does it cover the kloepro who all of a sudden forgets to pay for something. It covers a multitude of sin as well as His mercy. He loves to pick up those who fall,

[Bolts]

Blessings to you in Jesus Name

People fall off the wagon - go back to their old ways, because it is familiar ground. A new foundation of beliefs for dealing with heartache, disappointment, loneliness, physical or mental abuse etc. has not been laid properly. A person whose belief foundations are laid properly would be able to shrug situations off or intelligently question what is going on.

This new foundation that I am talking about, is when God gives us a new heart and puts a right spirit in us. He is able to remove our hearts of stone.

On a side note: I believe that we are in the last days and that the Lord is raising up a new church. The Bride of Christ.

[Openly Curious]

What happens with a Christian person who falls off the wagon and starts to drink alcohol again after being away from it for years. Are they condemned by God? Are they still a saint? Should and do they still have fellowship with the church or do they get kicked out?

I am serious about the answers and comments that are given as I really want to hear what others have to say

thanks

OC

the only questions I can answer OC is that no they are NOT condemned by God and yes they are still a saint.

I learned a long time ago while a Christian and continually falling off the wagon that God never left me, He NEVER condemned me and I never lost my place in His house...don't let anyone convince you or anyone else otherwise.

blessings

Thanks for your reply jackie d I thought it was kind of neat that you still had fellowship with God while you were struggling. Your testimony shows that the comfort you recieved of the Lord while in your struggle is now being used to comfort others as it is very comforting to know God will never condemn or leave us.

blessings to you

OC

[Openly Curious]

well i turned after getting saved...but God let me come back.....i had to seek...and work at it but slowly but surly i feel great again... and for a while i wasnt sure because i was so deep with sin.....the truth will sent you free...hang in there

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

I am so glad Shanee that you finally found assurance in God again

OC

[Openly Curious]

A person who drinks alcohol isn't condemned! In excess it isn't good, and I am assuming that you are talking of an alcoholic who is back to drinking. Anything that controls you other than Jesus is wrong. But that person is still saved. Should a church kick them out? I don't believe so. If that person is in a position of Elder or Deacon, then they need to be removed from that position. If they come to church drunk, well, that needs to be dealt with. But generally, the brothers and sisters need to pray and support each other and help each other where we are weak.

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Nathele

Hi Trusting Jesus,

I just wanted to ask you a few question on what you said as I am not sure I'm understanding you or not so here goes.

First you say a person who drinks alcohol isn't condemned

Then you say that if a person drinks in excess (which I think you mean alot) that that isn't good

Then you say anything that controls one other that Jesus then that behaviour is wrong

But the person is still saved.

Okay now a believer who drinks alchol is not condemned by God so in essence they are still accepted by him and that drinking in excess may not be good but one will still be accepted by God. So I take it that even in the midst of all of this that if something controls you no matter what that thing is then it is wrong or it is a sin unto believers and therefore you will not be accepted by God.

So I don't understand how the person can still be saved if they cross they line of letting something control them instead of God.

I agree with the other things you said I just have some confusion over the things I addressed.

blessings

OC

[Openly Curious]

if perhaps you had a 10 mo old trying to walk and they go so far and then wobble and fall...How would any mom or dad will react to that stumbling child?

I know I would go over in a nurturing way, dry the tears ..hug that child...clean there pants if they get dirty, encourage them to try again....maybe walking a little closer.

That is how i see our father in heaven, loving and caring...

but to take advantage is another story, of His mercy and Grace.

patricia1

I hope you don't mind me asking but could you eloborate more in detail on what you mean by one taking advantage of the Father in heaven? Would be interesting to hear more of where you are coming from.

blessings

OC

[Ddavid from NC]

The church is supposed to be about reconciliation and restoration. Any church discipline that takes place by the leadership is supposed to as well be focused on restoration. Certainly, a person salvation is intact even if he/she "falls off the wagon". It's not the churches place to judge the authienticity, but I believe if it were me personally I would examine myself ask myself some tough questions. The reason for the tough love is this warning in Scripture: For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb:

[damo1]

What happens with a Christian person who falls off the wagon and starts to drink alcohol again after being away from it for years. Are they condemned by God? Are they still a saint? Should and do they still have fellowship with the church or do they get kicked out?

I am serious about the answers and comments that are given as I really want to hear what others have to say

thanks

OC

damo1

to openly curious

well they drift back to their old way of life as its showing me they have chossen to do this jesus gives us a free will and he never forces him self on us he is very jentle it does not mean that the church should have the right to shut its door on any one that does this what the church should be doing is this praying and seeing if they can win the person back into the flock

i should know i did this a lot when i was a young christian herroin and alcahol played a big part in my life and i found it very hard to let go of my past or those that i new no matter how hard i tried to live the christian life i found my self drifting

instead of putting gods armor on i would think about the girls i knew in the strip clubs i use to work in or i would start thinking of my mates i use to deal with

were i did run and go back to my old life i found that the people in my church who new me would constantly pray my old pastors did this every day and my spiritual mentors who took me into their home

when ever i would find my self in a pub or in a night club drinking i would feel the holy spirits conviction as the face of my pastors would come to my mind or my spiritual mentors

when i was at a mates place in sydney shoting up herroin or speed or having a few cones i would feel sick in the gut this use to get me mad as i would block what i was feeling and would do my best to avoid christians yet no matter wear i ran a christian would be placed in my path

comming back to your question are they condemned by god ? are they stil a saint ? should and do they have fellowship with the church or do they get kicked out ?

you have answered this for your self take a step back and you wil see for your self were this is written in gods word one you have denied what christ did for you on the cross 2 you have decided to activate your sin that means god has taken his hands off you but he has not given up on you he wil chase you like he chased me until he gets you back and safe into the flock

and num 4 as i said no church should have the right to kick you out if a church does this it is not really following christs commands

i no longer do what i use to do when i was young i am a better man today for deciding to give jesus a chance and alowing him to have full reign in my life i no longer crave for the herroin or the speed or the pot or the hash like i use to or the sex or old stomping grounds or old mates

jesus is all i need also he has placed good decent stable people around me and i have a god fearing women who is a pastor i just came back from the phillippines

hope this answers your question openly curious

[Openly Curious]

The church is supposed to be about reconciliation and restoration. Any church discipline that takes place by the leadership is supposed to as well be focused on restoration.

Certainly, a person salvation is intact even if he/she "falls off the wagon".

It's not the churches place to judge the authienticity, but I believe if it were me personally I would examine myself ask myself some tough questions. The reason for the tough love is this warning in Scripture: For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: