Can believers be un-converted?

[OneLight]

I do hope that I did not offend you. I saw your earlier reply and felt like it was getting out of hand for you. Care to restate another question as to where you are now that all this information was given to you to digest?

[~~ angelique ~~]

I do hope that I did not offend you. I saw your earlier reply and felt like it was getting out of hand for you. Care to restate another question as to where you are now that all this information was given to you to digest?

I am so confused right now that I don't know which way is up....... I am wondering after reading all this if I am christian

no, you didn't offend me

[stacey c]

We need to be sure not to confuse ~~ angelique ~~ further by battling our doctrinal differences. She has a true concern here, and I see this thread going way over her head. Maybe another thread on this subject should be started and keep our answers at the level ~~ angelique ~~ can understand and digest. IMO ...

In His Love,

Alan

One light is totally correct here. We can debate this issue untill Christ comes back and convert many to one side or another. But at what cost? Putting confusion and fear into one person is not a christian attribute we should have. Angelique, please do not let this issue put you in fear for your soul. ALL that is required, is that You have faith that Jesus died for your sins and rose again on the third day and is now on the right hand of the Father. And you asked Him into your heart you are saved. Greek defination of faith, 'The absolute, total conviction of the truth of anything. Total assurance or cofidence.' Unred I must disagree with you on one issue. I donot need to wait for the day of judgement to know whether I am saved or not. I know, that I know, that I know that I am saved now. I have faith that what the Bible says about "when I believe in my heart, and confess with my mouth that Jesus Christ is lord, I am saved and my name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life." Rest assured little sister, there is no doubt you are saved, your faith has been accounted unto you as righteousness. I would not state that any here are not saved, their faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior is without a doubt abundantly clear. Your sister in Christ, Stacey

[OneLight]

I do hope that I did not offend you. I saw your earlier reply and felt like it was getting out of hand for you. Care to restate another question as to where you are now that all this information was given to you to digest?

I am so confused right now that I don't know which way is up....... I am wondering after reading all this if I am christian

no, you didn't offend me

You accepted Jesus as your savior, you are saved. Being a mature Christian takes time. Understanding the Bible and how it applies you our lives takes time. Allow the Holy Spirit to teach you as He see fit, in His timing. Don't get ahead of Him. I did, and was very discouraged in my walk, wondering why I couldn't do this of be that. Trying to make myself better, by my own works. When I gave my life back to Him and allowed Him to work in me as He saw fit, having patience, I began to understand why and have had a closer walk with God then I have ever had. Waiting on the Lord is a beautiful part of our walk. We see more of Him in everything when we do.

Have patience, beloved Sister!

Be Blessed,

Your Brother In Christ,

Alan

[His_Own]

So, is it like the prodical son? He believed but left and the father allowed him back?

Sweetie, the prodical son never stopped being his son. They were just out of fellowship, but never out of relationship.

Precious Daughter of the King of kings, Angelique,

I lived for several years as a Christian who believed that I could loose my salvation. I was continually terrified by the possibility. It took years, but after MUCH study, I am convinced, the issue is one of trust. His ways are so far above our ways, that we simply cannot understand them all. But, we can know that He loved us enough to create us. Even after we (mankind) became traitors in the garden of Eden, He continued to love us enough to leave His glory, and come to be one of us, to die a most miserable and humiliating death, that we might have the opportunity to be His Own. Even now, this very instant, He lives to intercede for you, personally. His nature is Love, pure, unadulterated Love. He loves you, and has proven it over and over. Rest in His Love and care. Trust Him to keep you, as you trusted Him to save you.

Psalm 100:3 Know ye that the LORD He is God:

it is He that hath made us, and not we ourselves;

we are His people, and the sheep of His pasture.

Over and over our Father compares us to His sheep.

A sheep is totally powerless, and relies on the shepherd for everything.

We can not make ourselves.

We can not save ourselves.

We can not keep ourselves.

Without Him, we can do nothing. John 15:5

He alone created us,

He alone saved us,

He alone keeps us.

We are totally dependent on the One Who created us in His image, Who humbled Himself to die for us, Who lives to intercede for us.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Romans 8:32 He that spared not His Own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

(unred typo @ Apr 4 2008, 02:25 PM) *

Apathy is one of the results of believing that what we do has no effect on our eternal destiny. This is the fruit of the OSAS doctrine. By the fruit you will know the tree is bad.

Dear unred, Fruit is not the only evidence of truth, but it does stand as a witness to confirm. You have talked in generalities about apathy. I have seen apathy in all churches. I have also seen churches who defined "busy - ness" as good fruit, but too often, it was just an attempt to earn a place in heaven, motivated by fear and selfishness and without spirit and life.

Specific fruits: I lived in abject terror for the first 7 years of my Christian life. I had known for 3 years prior to my salvation that I was unsaved, and the fear of being lost increased with each year. The instant I received Him, He replaced that fear with a joy that was so evident that people would stop me and ask me what had happened. But that was short lived; it was replaced by the terror that I would loose my salvation; a constant fear that I might have done something to be "unsaved". It was even worse than being lost, for now I had known His peace and joy, and understood better what was at stake. I was usually functional, but I did not have the abundant life, no joy, no peace, only confusion and terror. I did not know His peace and joy until I learned to trust Him to keep me, just as I had trusted Him to save me.

In contrast, I had the dearest of friends who would not be convinced. He believed that he had done something that the Father could not forgive, that he had lost his salvation and was doomed to hell. He lost all hope in life, and began to look to "the usually things" for comfort. He spiraled downward, out of control, destroying all those in his path. I cannot tell you the heartache it has left for so many. Apathy is not good, but this was fruit from the pit of hell, begun because he thought he had to keep himself, and could not trust the Savior, the Lover of His soul to keep him.

May you trust Him to keep you.

Edited April 6, 2008 by His_Own

[Guest LadyC]

I lived for several years as a Christian who believed that I could loose my salvation. I was continually terrified by the possibility. It took years, but after MUCH study, I am convinced, the issue is one of trust.

ditto for me from the other side of the spectrum... and i'm a non-osas believer. i spent years (when i believed the osas doctrine) frantically fearing that i wasn't truly saved in the first place and that i would never make it to heaven, even though i was saved. through many years and much study of the word, AND through the guidance of the holy spirit, i became convinced that the issue IS one of trust. one of trust that my eternal security lied in my profession of faith, not in my being "good".

so PERHAPS this whole debate is a mute point... perhaps the Holy Spirit imparts understanding of this issue in a manner in which the recipient of the information is capable of processing. after all, this is not a salvational issue. it's a subject of salvation, but our eternal security does not hinge on whether we agree with one side or the other.

and perhaps, since angelique was the one to pose the question, and the debate that followed has done nothing but confuse her and cause her such anxiety, we should all agree to disagree, drop the debate, and do nothing more than to focus our energy on encouraging her, and assuring her of what we all DO agree on... that she is saved, and that she is not in jeapardy of losing her place in God's family.

[hopper]

[mrs]

.....one of trust that my eternal security lied in my profession of faith, not in my being "good".

No no no. Your eternal security doesnt lie in your profession of faith. After all we are human and our hearts deceive us all the time. Your eternal security rests on the unfailing character of your Father in heaven.

I want angelique to understand this also : if you have repented of your sins and believed on Christ to save you; then you can believe Him when He says that ' him that cometh to me i will in no wise cast out'. Your safety is built upon the promises and character of God and He is the Unchanging Infallible Almighty.

[Guest LadyC]

uh..... hate to tell you this, but the requirement of salvation is to believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is who He says He is. that IS the unfailing character of God. that if we believe and confess, we are eternally secure.

now shall we stop the debate and support this girl?

[Guest]

Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

Jesus

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Hebrews 12:2

Started It

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

Believe In Jesus Gives It

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:14

Living In Jesus And The Words Of Jesus Grows It

"If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love." John 15:7-9

Jesus Will Finish It

"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, [25] To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." Jude 1:24-25

Abba Father

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." Romans 8:15

Hallelujah!

Grace To You

"Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." Galatians 1:3-5

Glory! Glory! Glory!

Love, Your Brother Joe