How did Lucifer have the sin in him to fall?

[Gerioke]

Lucifer had too much time on his hands. Gave him lots of time to think.

Look what thought did to humanity.

[Floatingaxe]

Lucifer was the angel responsible for worship. That was an important position. After a time, all the exaltation he was generating for God became something he desired for himself. Pride did him in. Puffed up with his own abilities, powers and beauty, he rebelled against his Maker, and became a thing most detestable in God's sight.

[HAZARD]

Lucifer wanted to knock God off His Throne and take over Gods Kingdom.

In Isa. 14:12-14 we have statements which cannot possibly of an earthly King. The passage is universally refering to the fall of Satan. We can quote it and note the facts.

"How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which dist weaken the nations! For thou art hast said in thine heart, I WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN, I WILL EXALT MY THRONE above the stars of God: I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE like the most High," Now note the following facts this passage proves of Satan:

1. That his name is Lucifer.

2. That he was a son of the morning, and therefore, no earthly man.

3. That he fell from Heaven. This could never be spoken of a man. Satan is the only person in all Scripture who is spoken of as falling from Heaven (Luke 10:18).

4. That he was cut down to the ground in his fall.

5. That he weakened the nations on Earth.

6. That he was exalted in his heart.

7. That he invaded hHeaven where God rules.

8. That he was a KING, for he had a Throne and SUBJECTS over whom he ruled.

9. That he wanted to exalt his kingdom above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven itself to dethrone God.

10. That he wanted to be worshiped in the congregation of God (Ps. 72:2; 82:1; Isa. 6:1).

11. That he led a rebellion against God but was defeated.

12. That his kingdom was on Earth, or he never could have tried to ascend above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven. When a kingdom is located under the clouds it has to be on the Earth.

13. That the ground, clouds, stars, and Heaven were already created.

14. That it had to be before Adam, for this was not the position of Lucifer when he was in Adam's Eden. Adam had dominion at that time. Lucifer had no kingdom on the Earth at the time of Adam and he has not had one since in the sense of a visible personal rule on Earth. He has only ruled through others since Adam's day; so this must refer to a time before Adam.

15. That he was not in Heaven when he rebelled, else he could not have desired to ascend into Heaven. He was under the stars, or he could not have desired to be exalted above the stars. He was under the clouds, or he could not have desired to ascend above them.

16. That God's throne is located in the north part of the universe (Psalms 75:6-7). Thus, this passage proves the location of Satan's original kingdom and the time of his fall. It was located on Earth, and his fall was before Adam, for he was al;reday a fallen creature when he entered Adam' Eden.

In Coll. 1:15-18 we read of Christ creating thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers in Heaven and on Earth. They were located somewhere in the heavens and on the Earth. Lucifer was given a kingdom here on Earth, as proved by the passages cited above. His own subjects were earthly creatures of various kinds which were destroyed when the flood of Gen. 1:2 came upon the Earth. God created the Earth to be inhabited by earthly creatures (Isa. 45:18). They are called "nations" in the above passages. The demons who are now Satans emissaries could well be the spirits of the pre-Adamites. At any rate they are not part of the creation at the time of Adam. Thus Isaiah teaches the the Earth was inhabited before Adam and was ruled by Lucifer, whos' kingdom was overthrown when he rebelled.

There is so, so much more found in Scripture regarding this doctrin, many dozens of Scriptures support this. If this is false teaching, it amuses me that no one comes up with nothing more than Noah's flood, which occured much later, did not compleatly destroy the Earth, shake mountains, turn them upside down, turned off the stars and the sun so that there was no light. God had already created the Heavens, they were in existence as well as the Earth only their lights were withheld from shining on the Earth thus causing darkness Gen. 1:2. There was no darkness during Noah's flood? There were men and animals on the earth before Noah's flood, and Noah and his family and the animals survived the flood and were on the Eart after it?

That the Earth ONLY was (became) without form and void (Hebrew tohu vabobu, litterally wast and ruin or desolate and empty), as in Gen. 1:2. That there were mountains of Earth that were shaken and turned upside down by an earthquake so severe, which no doubt caused the remains of animals to be deposited in the very depths of the Earth beneath many layers of solid rock, such as are now been found. Noah's flood never buried animals hundreds of meters beneath solid rock.

Many other scriptures apart from those above can be presented to prove the doctrin of a pre-Adamite world.

To try and put this in a nutshell, God created the heavens first, then the Earth, all in the beginning or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). He caused the heavens and the Earth to be inhabited and gave Lucifer control of the Earth-kingdom, don't believe me, read, (Coll. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer ruled the earth for God for an unknown period before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and dethrone God. Not my idea, read (Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). He was defeated and his kingdom on Earth was destroyed by a flood and the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).

The Earth was turned upside down, a process which caused all the present formations of the Earth. The flood remained on the Earth for an unknown period of time, and then God in six days restored the Earth to a habitable state and made Adam and Eve and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer, now called Satan, and the spirit rebels caused man to fall, and they regained dominion of the earth through Adam's submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). They have been in control ever since and will be in control untill the second coming of Christ, who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium and make a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth all righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5). Why does science show the earth to be many millions of years old and the Bible "(allegedly)" says it is only six thousand years old? So, as with everything missunderstood in Scripture men call what they do not understand a theory. Hence, the gap theory, or even a herecy. But there was a gap and its no theory. Scripture shows there was a creation "in the beginning" and then a re-creation.

If we take the time to carefully read all the Scriptures regarding this doctrin and not just skim over them retaining old knowledge in the mind, and the READ these below, which backs up what is said, and see for yourselves

You see, God spoke, and as soon as the materials were made, God created and formed with His hands the heavens, with all its light and darkness first, then the Earth, all in the beginning, or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). God created the heavens and the earth to be inhabited and He gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Col. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and de-throne (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:

But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.

Ok but my question is:

How did Satan have the desire to do evil when there was no evil before him and only good? Man fell because Satan tempted them. But how did Satan-an angel who was loved by God and had no evil influences-how did he fall so hard to become the most evil being imaginable?

______________________________________________________________

Good answeres all.

How long Lucifer ruled the Earth in perfect harmoney with the kingdom of God is not mentioned in Scripture, but it must have been for a very long period, for it took a long time to work up such a rebellion as he did. He caused over one third of God's own angels to rebel, as well as his own earthly subjects.

In Ezekiel we read; "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

When we look up the word "iniquity" in Websters 20th Centuary Unabridged Dictionary we find;

iniquity, n [ME. iniquite; OFr. iniquite; L. iniquitas, (-atis), unevenness, iniquality, injustis, from iniquus, unequal; in-priv., and aequus, level, equal.]

1. Lack of justice or righteousness; wickedness, sin.

So, there we have it. Pretty well sums up what Lucifer, now satan is and why he fell.

Haz.

[kat8585]

This is something I've always wondered about, and no one has given me a satisfactory answer.

[EricH]

The question of where the original inclnation to Sin actually came from is difficult to answer. Free-will does not really answer that, because freedom is not a cause it is a mechanism. In other words Lucifer was able to sin because of his ability to choose, but freedom does not explain what caused him to make the decision he did.

For example, we believe God gave people the freedom to choose Him or reject Him. Some accept Him and some don't. Both have the freedom to choose, so freedom cannot be the explnation for why they choose what they do (since both have the same freedom but choose differently). If both have freedom, there must be something else that is the determining factor in terms of choosing to accept God or reject Him.

[OneLight]

How did Satan have the desire to do evil when there was no evil before him and only good?

There is no scriptural proof that there was no evil. In fact, Gods creation leans toward there being evil. If this was not true, there would of been no tree of the knowledge of good and evil, as found in Genesis 2:9. God created everything, and in order to have one side, there has to be an opposite in order to make it true. How would we know of love if there was not hate, hot if there was no cold, up if there was no down?

Lucifer was created a perfect being, but knew about sin and choose evil over good in his heart.

[~~ angelique ~~]

How did Satan have the desire to do evil when there was no evil before him and only good?

There is no scriptural proof that there was no evil. In fact, Gods creation leans toward there being evil. If this was not true, there would of been no tree of the knowledge of good and evil, as found in Genesis 2:9. God created everything, and in order to have one side, there has to be an opposite in order to make it true. How would we know of love if there was not hate, hot if there was no cold, up if there was no down?

Lucifer was created a perfect being, but knew about sin and choose evil over good in his heart.

Does that mean that God created evil? If evil existed BEFORE Lucifer rebelled and if the knowledge of good and evil also existed, then God created said knowledge?

:thumbsup:

[nebula]

Does that mean that God created evil? If evil existed BEFORE Lucifer rebelled and if the knowledge of good and evil also existed, then God created said knowledge?

:emot-heartbeat:

Angelique -

One thing you may discover is that there are some theological questions which theologians love to debate about and for which no one can agree on an answer to.

One is: "Did Adam have a belly button?" (I'm serious!)

Another is: Predestination vs. Free will

This question of where evil came from is one of those.

I listened to a Rabbi explain how the Scriptures are full of seeming contradictions. There was actually a name for this - I can't remember what it was though as it was something in either Hebrew or Yiddish - but it is a common enough occurance that they gave it a theological expression. For them, what seems to us as a contradiction means that God has a lesson for us in figuring out how to work the two together. (I'm sorry I can't remember the example he gave either. )

So, this is a question which is best looked at in terms of seeking the answer will tell us more than the answer itself will give.

Make sense?

[traveller]

So, this is a question which is best looked at in terms of seeking the answer will tell us more than the answer itself will give.

Beautifully said, sis

[~~ angelique ~~]

Does that mean that God created evil? If evil existed BEFORE Lucifer rebelled and if the knowledge of good and evil also existed, then God created said knowledge?

:emot-heartbeat:

Angelique -

One thing you may discover is that there are some theological questions which theologians love to debate about and for which no one can agree on an answer to.

One is: "Did Adam have a belly button?" (I'm serious!)

Another is: Predestination vs. Free will

This question of where evil came from is one of those.

I listened to a Rabbi explain how the Scriptures are full of seeming contradictions. There was actually a name for this - I can't remember what it was though as it was something in either Hebrew or Yiddish - but it is a common enough occurance that they gave it a theological expression. For them, what seems to us as a contradiction means that God has a lesson for us in figuring out how to work the two together. (I'm sorry I can't remember the example he gave either. )

So, this is a question which is best looked at in terms of seeking the answer will tell us more than the answer itself will give.

Make sense?

Somewhat. I just don't get all this theological stuff to see it