How did Lucifer have the sin in him to fall?

[TruthFirst]

I would like to help in this discussion by setting a few premises in order to answer your question.

1) God is God and there is no other like Him (I know we are all aware of that)

2) Prior to the creation of anything (Angels, Universe, Man) God was self-sufficient and still is.

3) When God chose to create He basically setup a Theocratic Kingdom (No Democracies)

4) This Kingdom is ruled by Him alone and everything else is either subject to or is His subject (Every knee shall bow).

5) One of God's attributes is Goodness, or He is good, and therefore everything He does is good. (No evil is found in Him)

Matter of fact everything He does is perfect.

6) God can not create evil or engender evil or influence with evil. (Evil is contrary to good)

7) Evil was not even around until the concept of free choice (free will) came into being and at that point evil would only have been a concept also. (Evil became a reality when rebellion, the wrong choice, was exercised)

8) It is our wrong and rebellious choices that results into evil practices, evil thoughts, selfishness, evil doing.

Prior to the creation of Lucifer there was no evil. (The proof of this 2, 5, & 6) Lucifer was created as a great Angelic being full of beauty, power, authority, intelligence and more. Beauty from the reflection of God's wonderful being and creativeness. Power and Authority in His Kingdom to lead myriads of lesser angels in love, praise and worship unto God. Intelligence which was part of the package does not equate to "Common Sense". In Lucifer's heart, he began the rumblings of pride in himself and his position among the angels and chose to rebel against God and attempt to overthrow his Creator. By choosing this treasonous disobedient course he became evil and because of his power and authority he is the most infamous of evil ones among the throng of angels he convinced to rebel with him. (Every angel having had the choice to follow God or rebel against Him.)

There was no outside thing that would have influenced Lucifer's decision. It was a free will choice to rebel. If there are outside influences or something tip the scale one way or another then that would void out free will.

The presence of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil only proves that evil was already introduce at the time of Adam and Eve. Which stand to reason because Lucifer rebelled and introduced evil far before the creation of Adam and Eve.

Free will is just that, FREE WILL. It has no catalyst, nothing to influence a decision one way or another. The moment we find something to cause or influence free will then that freedom is gone and the responsibility for our choices is removed.

The Big question is: Did God KNOW that Lucifer was going to rebel against Him before He even created Lucifer?

"And the Truth shall set you free"

[nebula]

Somewhat. I just don't get all this theological stuff to see it

That's OK . . . sometimes our theological debates are nothing more than .

[Guest Instrument]

Lucifer was an angel created by God and knew of God personally and saw his love and the love of his peers the angels. So I dont understand where Lucifer got the desire to sin or even knew of sin?

When we do bad things we can blame the influence of Satan.

But before there was Satan, what made Lucifer fall that hard?

I think very probable that the desire of sin was born in satan when he saw the glory that God gave to man.

Blessings.

[Rick-Parker]

Lucifer fell before God created man.

[Massorite]

Lucifer was an angel created by God and knew of God personally and saw his love and the love of his peers the angels. So I dont understand where Lucifer got the desire to sin or even knew of sin?

When we do bad things we can blame the influence of Satan.

But before there was Satan, what made Lucifer fall that hard?

Nothing made satan rebel against his Creator he choose to rebel against his Creator. What was in him was the freedom to make that choice.

[Rick-Parker]

Lucifer fell before God created man.

some how I think many on here might not agree with you, though I do

And I may be wrong, in light of Ezekiel 28:13-15, "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." (KJV) I had just never thought about it.

I am not positive that this is talking about Satan.

I deleted my prior post after more research. Sorry, folks.

[Jeremiah Joel]

Lucifer was an angel created by God and knew of God personally and saw his love and the love of his peers the angels. So I dont understand where Lucifer got the desire to sin or even knew of sin?

When we do bad things we can blame the influence of Satan.

But before there was Satan, what made Lucifer fall that hard?

In the scriptures it speaks: Rev 4:11.... "You have created all things, and for your pleasure they are and were created" (This would also include the Devil).

It also speaks the same about the wicked: Pro 16:4 "The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil".

Speaking of Satan Eze 28:14-15 "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you {there.} You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.

You were blameless in your ways, From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you".

God created the devil and his angels for the purpose he had. Iniquity was always in Satan, and within the time set it was reveled.

Did God create evil? According to Is 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Remembering that all things were created by him and for him.... and for his purpose.

We as man are sinful. The sin was brought forth through a law that God gave to Adam. Without law there is no sin. God knew what man would do by giving him a law,.... he would sin. If God had not given man the law there would have been no sin.

This does not make God a sinner or evil....... It just simply makes him totally God. In control of all things.

A good example of this is in I Ki 20-23 "And the LORD said: Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee".

This reference in I Ki 20 does not make God a lying spirit or a lier...... it just simply makes him God.

God is the one that made man to fall through a law. And the law is done away in Christ. The question is then, are we really in Christ?.

All the powers that be are ordained of God for his work/purpose. A God to be feared.

[BlindSeeker]

I believe I answer this and cover many of the questions and verses alluded to here in an old thread of mine from 5 years ago.

Hope it helps

Peace

[truthbringer]

Lucifer was an angel created by God and knew of God personally and saw his love and the love of his peers the angels. So I dont understand where Lucifer got the desire to sin or even knew of sin?

When we do bad things we can blame the influence of Satan.

But before there was Satan, what made Lucifer fall that hard?

[1]Satan wanted to be greater than God, and deluded himself into thinking he can be,

[2] Satan can influence us, but we have the choice to either do or don't do.

[3] he fell because of pride.

[mead]

I think that Lucifer had become far too prideful in what he believed was a better will to be than God's. Of course he had free will, he used it in his decision to rebel, but we all know what can happen when pride goes before the throne.

1. Pride always goes before the fall (Proverbs 16:18)

2. It didn't work well for Lucifer (Luke 10:18)