GandalfTheWise

God intends for each one of us to be a unique work of art that will reflect Him in a way no one else can. Being a Christian is not about losing our identity into a generic featureless "Christian" life that is the same as everyone else's; it is about becoming everything that God intended us to be in freedom and liberty. (By freedom and liberty, I mean being free from addiction, bitterness, anger, emotional pain, self-destructive urges, and the like. I'm not referring to doing anything and everything without consequence.). It means being free of the things inside of us that hold us back from being that unique person God created us to be. Being a Christian is about being healed and energized and released inside of ourselves to live life as an adventure in freedom alongside of God; it does not mean everything around us becomes perfect. "Wanting God for Him" is not a prerequisite for the Christian life; it is a result of it. Being "passionate enough about God" is not something we stoke up on our own; it is a natural outgrowth of walking with Him and getting to know Him. @Chrysandra, you are a unique treasure that God created, not to be like everyone else, but to be like you. He wants to set you free of whatever things are holding you back from being that unique person He intends. Your walk with God will be different than mine and anyone else's. All of us have struggles, wounds, pains, and secret shames that God has to heal to restore us into the unique person He intends for us to be. The feelings each of us have towards God grow and change as we walk with Him and are slowly changed, healed, and grow throughout the years. Walking with God is about becoming the person He means us to be (whether artistic, creative, passionate, calm, nurturing, energetic, introverted, outgoing, whatever) and being that person in our lives and leaving behind the stuff (addictions, bitterness, anger, hurt, etc.) that keeps us from being that person that we know in our deepest heart that we are meant to be. I believe that deep within us, God has placed a unique person that He intends us to be, that unique God-created person that we somehow know, despite what happens around us, that we are somehow meant to be. That is the call of God to walk with Him as a unique creation and person. When we are walking with God and in a healthy relationship with Him and others, that unique person will naturally emerge and flow out from us to touch the world and reflect God's glory in a way no one else can. When we are not walking with God and have broken relationships with others, the unique person inside of us will be in constant struggle against God and other people. Instead of being free to be who we are meant to be, we are bound and constrained (not by God or others) but by our wounds, addictions, anger, uncontrollable compulsions, and burdens. We become a mixture of the good God intends and some face of the evil that we ourselves hate in the world.

I tend to follow the same approach as @shiloh357 as a starting point to study. Here's a suggestion for a non-controversial topic that should be fairly simple to address and illustrate the general method. This might give a nice intro to hermeneutics without generating strong emotions and doctrinal fights. Here are a handful of verses where something is explicitly commanded, but we really don't do it today, and indeed tend to discourage it as literally written, but try to implement it culturally appropriately. Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ send greetings. Rom 16:16 All the brothers and sisters here send you greetings. Greet one another with a holy kiss. I Cor 16:20 Greet one another with a holy kiss. II Cor 13:12 Greet all God’s people with a holy kiss. I Thes 5:26 Greet one another with a kiss of love. Peace to all of you who are in Christ. I Pet 5:14

I've got three daughters (mid 20s to early 30s) of whom two are married. I'm viewing this thread through the viewpoint of what I would want for them and what I would tell them. FWIW Those are some red flags you mention. There are some manipulative men out there there will put on a very different face to get what they want and have learned how to play with people's feelings to get what they want. Then there are some good Christian guys in their first relationship who get swept up and overwhelmed by the emotions and newness of it and have no clue how to act and at times act unseemly. I was one of the latter and fortunately my wife decided I was too (and she had at one point called off our engagement). We just celebrated 34 years of marriage this summer. On the other hand, one of my daughters seemed like a magnet for bad-news jerks. There was one I had mentally prepared myself for the potential of physical violence if he would have shown up at our house. Fortunately, she found a good Christian man to marry (a pastor's kid who went his own route for a few years and then came back to the Lord) and we now have a great son-in-law. Relationships and marriage are a serious thing that will affect all aspects of your life for a long time and even more so once children come into the picture. Prayerfully consider what to do. Look carefully at a man's family, attendance and involvement at church, daily spiritual life, circle of friends, interests, career path, motivation, work ethic, financial condition, lifestyle, how he treats other people, his temper and how he deals with setbacks, how he gets along with your friends and family, and other such things because they will have a huge impact on your life. Is he basically a good solid man with a solid life (with some flaws to address) who will be there for you and your children, or a faker who is putting on a show and will not stick with you for the long run? My two daughters that are married found solid Christian guys with good Christian families that my daughters like being with, who are hard workers, and who get along well with her family and friends. You don't just marry a man; to a large extent you also marry his family, friends, church circles, job, education, attitudes, debts, interests, and other such things. If a man does not already have a solid Christian lifestyle (including spirituality, a good work ethic, a good circle of Christian friends, a solid history of church and ministry involvement, a good reputation, etc.), Get Away Now! Having a relationship with him is unlikely to change him for the better and will likely drag you down and cause you (and down the line potentially your children) a lot of grief and pain.

Questions like "what in the world does A, B, or C mean for bras?" or such things might represent naivety and having been quite sheltered being raised. Asking about you personally is getting out of line as is making things like this the focus of conversation. If you don't have a good feeling for this guy, I'd recommend not pursuing a relationship at all. Having said that, some people can make a very bad first impression and simply have terrible social skills (including being oblivious to boundaries and what's considered polite). But the way to see if an impression is justified or not is to observe them and have limited interactions in a safe setting such as church or group activities where you are not alone with them.

It would depend on how good my relationship was with my neighbor and my neighbor's general personality and attitude. The bottom line is that I'd probably base what I'd do on who the neighbor was and my history with him and how much I am concerned about the the money I spent. Some neighbors I could go to with a "Dude, your dog sent me to urgent care!" and they'd offer to make it right and do something. Others, I'd approach more tactfully. Perhaps by asking if the dog was current on their shots with the intent of slipping in the information during the conversation that I ended up at urgent care because it bit me. I'd then base what I did next on their reaction. Some people I know would pay for it without thinking (either cash or figuring out how to inform the insurance company). Others would not. That then becomes a situation to consider how the money fits within our plans for future relations. Dogs biting people is serious business. It could be a small child next time or more severe injuries to someone. That could result in lawsuits or the dog being confiscated and put down. A responsible dog owner would appreciate being told and would do what they could to make it right and to make sure it doesn't happen again. That having been said, some dog owners are not responsible.

The third thing I find interesting is the phrase ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ (usually translated as something like "the one who believes in me"). A few interesting things about this phrasing. First is that it seems open ended. It is not restricted to the disciples. Another thing is the choice of the Greek participle used. In English, we don't have as big a distinction between different aspects of action that Greek does. I'll try to explain this. Imagine that I saw a parade last week. Today, I could represent that entire process of attending and enjoying it as a summary. "I saw a parade." In contrast, during the parade, I could describe the process of what I'm doing as "I am watching a parade." In one aspect, the focus is summarizing the action, in the other the focus is on emphasizing that the action is occurring. This Greek participle emphasizes an ongoing action of believing. It could be translated as "the one who is actively believing in me" or "the one believing in me". There seems to be a direct emphasis on the action and process of believing as something more ongoing than a once-for-all type of emphasis. I think that this seems to carry the idea of ongoing faith in one's life rather than an initial act of faith or belief.

I agree fully. We lived frugally and worked hard to be out of debt and build up a rainy day fund. We decided that was the rainy day it was for. I truly do not know what I would have done if taking time off was not an option. I seriously feel very bad for people in similar situations who do not have that option. After this happened, as I started to talk and share what was going on with people, I was amazed at how many people I know who shared that they had struggled with severe stress at work and never really talked about it.

My sense is that various forms of mental illness and disorders (under which I'd also include addictions and compulsive behaviors) have multiple causes. (I'm probably not using the terms technically correctly.) Physical trauma from accidents, injury, or disease, brain chemistry changes due to drugs, bad diet, abuse, neglect, emotional manipulation, and other things can cause real physical changes and damage in the brain and result in behaviors that no amount of will-power or self-discipline is going to fix. If someone has a broken leg in a car accident, we are immediately sympathetic to their limitations. If someone suffers brain damage through a high level impact (such as in a car accident) or chronic low level impacts (sadly too common in sports), we are often oblivious or unsympathetic. Both a broken leg and brain trauma are equally a physical injury, its that the symptoms show up differently. In some cases perhaps, Bible reading by itself might help some people, but more often my sense is that some type of physical, emotional, or spiritual healing must occur. I cannot recall a single instance of healing in the Gospels or Acts in which Jesus or His disciples recommended that reading the OT would heal someone. It's not to say scripture and truth were never involved, but that the simple act of reading the OT by itself does not seem to have been the key thing involved. Speaking for myself, last year, I underwent some mental and emotional health recovery. Too many years of being too intense and serious about too many things had lead to chronic stress and some unhealthy emotional patterns. I left my job and pretty much shut down for a number of months. Part of my time off was spent reading the Bible through in Greek (LXX and GNT) over a couple of months. Reading in a non-native language forced me to focus and calm down in a way I needed as I got used to not worrying about stuff. This was something I needed. However, it was part of a general change of lifestyle and it was a good help in the transition. It was not the bible reading alone that fixed things (considering that I have been a regular bible reader for decades).

The second phrase I wondered about is μείζονα τούτων. This is usually translated as greater works or something similar. The word μεὶζων is the comparative form of μὲγας. In English, we use words such as great, greater, and greatest as means of comparison. The word μεὶζων corresponds to the English word greater (in contrast to great or greatest). Note that sometimes English translations use the word greatest to translate the comparative form instead of greater. This word generally means that something is larger, more excellent, better, or greater than something else. It seems to emphasize the idea of higher quality more so than quantity though sometimes it can refer to quantity and extent. The comparative form μεὶζων occurs 48 times in the USB4 GNT. Here are some of the verses it is in. Matt 11:11, 12:6, 13:32, 18:1, 18:4, 20:31, 23:11, 23:17, 23:19; Mark 4:32, 9:34, 12:31; Luke 7:28, 9:46, 12:18, 22:24-27; John 1:50, 4:12, 5:20, 5:36, 8:53, 10:29, 13:16, 14:12, 14:28, 15:13, 15:20, 19:11; Rom 9:12; I Cor 12:41 13:13, 14:5; I John 3:20, 4:4, 5:9 Here are some examples of its usage. Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matt 11:11 NIV At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” Matt 18:1 NIV The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” Mark 12:31 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?” John 4:12 NIV For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. John 5:20 NIV Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. John 13:16 NIV And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. I Cor 13:13 NIV My general sense of this phrase is that it is referring to the quality of the works rather than the quantity. It is possible for the word to refer to number and extent, but the comparative form seems to be used more often in the NT to refer to the excellence or quality of something.

My biggest regret is not knowing who God really made me to be until I was almost 50 years old. I was a serious Christian from the time I was 12. The problem was that I completely defined myself in terms of doing good Christian stuff and being a "good" Christian. I defined and judged myself on how well I was using my gifts and talents and how much fruit I was bearing. In my late 40s, God stuck me in front of a figurative mirror to look at myself and I had no clue who I was. That unique person God had created and intended for me to be was completely hidden behind all the spiritual stuff I was so busy doing. Over the next couple of years, God slowly brought to life the person He meant me to be. My gifts and talents became tools instead of identity. Love, compassion, ministry, and other things just started to flow naturally and bear more fruit than I'd seen before. Sigh... where was this 25 years ago? I leave that in God's hands as to whether I was just being too busy being a Christian to listen, whether it was partly the fault of the church emphasizing using gifts, talents, and bearing fruit as the goal of the life of all good Christians, or if God left me in that state for decades so that I'd be so intimately familiar with it that I can now help free people to become who He meant them to be. I also came to realize that I had not lost that time. I had largely given up on all of those callings and spiritual goals I felt were my purpose in life (in my late teens and 20s), and that I felt had fallen by the wayside because I had fallen short of them. In the past few years, God has renewed them in my heart. These were not goals to be achieved; these were God's promises about what He planned on doing once He had taken a few decades to get me ready to start walking with Him as the unique person He meant me to be. So, in one sense, this is a big regret. In another sense, I chalk it up to the path God was steering me along. A second regret (unrelated to the first one) is not having learned how to effectively teach myself new skills in life. Over the years, I got better at it, but I lost a few decades of effective learning time. In hindsight, if I knew in my 20s what I do now, I'd probably be functional in at least 4 or 5 foreign languages and a number of other skills. I largely blame our western education system for indoctrinating me into the idea that formal courses with teachers and non-holistic learning was the only way to learn.

<thread derail start> Meanwhile, Simon Peter was still standing there warming himself. So they asked him, “You aren’t one of his disciples too, are you?” He denied it, saying, “I am not.” One of the high priest’s servants, a relative of the man whose ear Peter had cut off, challenged him, “Didn’t I see you with him in the garden?” Again Peter denied it, and at that moment a rooster began to crow. John 18:25-27. In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples deserted him and fled. Matthew 26:55-57 The best among us have these moments. From what you say, I do not think you failed out of fear or denial, but rather out of wisdom and experience and discernment how to navigate a "gotcha" question. After what you shared here, I'm proud to call you a sister in Christ. You seem like a spiritual woman with a lot of integrity. <thread derail finish. Back to the OP>

The twilight zone was a bit before my time (plus my mom probably would have let me watch it), but I've seen many old episodes over the year. Many were well-written and thought provoking. It sounds like your life has been unique and challenging. Please feel free to PM me with anything if you feel so lead.

As a start to a response, here's a quick initial word study on the word "works" as used in this verse. ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ τὰ ἔργα ἃ ἐγὼ ποιῶ κἀκεῖνος ποιήσει, καὶ μείζονα τούτων ποιήσει, ὅτι ἐγὼ πρὸς τὸν πατέρα πορεύομαι· (SBL GNT John 14:12 from biblegateway.com) The word works used here is τὸ ἔργον. From 3rd Edition BDAG (the Bauer-Danker Greek Lexicon), the summary of this word's usage is as follows. That which displays itself in activity of any kind ("deed" or "action"). in contrast to rest (e.g. in word and deed) manifestation or practical proof deed or accomplishment (of God, or Jesus, or humans) That which one does as a regular activity ("work", "occupation", "task") That which is brought into being by work ("product", "undertaking", "work") Something having to do with something under discussion ("thing", "matter") Roughly speaking, it is a fairly generic word used to describe actions that people or God take (whether routine or extraordinary or miraculous) and the results of those actions. It can be used of both positive and negative things. It occurs 169 times in the UBS4 version of the GNT. Here are the occurrences in the Gospel of John. 3:19-21, 4:34, 5:20, 5:36, 6:28-29, 7:3, 7:7, 7:21, 8:39, 8:41, 9:3-4, 10:25, 10:32-33, 10:37-38, 14:10-12, 15:24, 17:4. In addition, I John 3:8,12,18; II John 1:11; III John 1:10; and Rev 2:2,5,6,19,22,23,26; 3: 1,2,8,15 (to round out the Johannine books). Here are some examples (with English translations chosen to highlight the Greek word): but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. John 3:19 NIV But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God. John 3:21 NKJV. But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. John 5:36 NKJV Jesus answered and said to them, “I did one work, and you all marvel. John 7:21 NKJV Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. John 8:39 NKJV Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” John 10:33 For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. I John 3:8 From this quick study, the general sense I have of this word is that it refers to anything and everything that someone might do and that it reflects their character and motivations. It seems to include both mundane everyday activities and actions to typical ministry activities as well as the out of the ordinary and the miraculous.

@JTCI read your post. I really don't know what to say except hang in there.

I think the key issue is that some people who are vegan hold to an animal rights view rather than animal welfare. These are very different things. Animal rights activists would not have humans exploit animals in any way. This is basically the view that some (or all) animals have some (or all) of the same rights to life and freedom that human beings have. Many people who support animal welfare (but not animal rights) do not realize that there is a difference and inadvertently end up supporting the extreme animal rights groups. People who support animal welfare (but not rights) would view animals as being different from human beings. There are vegans who do it primarily for the plant based diet. There are those who do it primarily for ideological animal rights reasons.

I've found that often (not always but often) sin, addictions, compulsive behaviors, and other such things are really symptoms of something deeper. Until God deals with the root cause (or causes), the symptoms will continue to be there. For example, consider someone with a broken leg in a cast. I could condemn them for not being a very graceful dancer or not being able to go jogging with me. No amount of will power or effort or what I tell them is going to make up for having a leg in a cast. Once the leg heals and the cast is off, they could get back to dancing and jogging. Or if I have the broken leg, I could condemn myself for not dancing well or jogging enough, but until the cast is off, I won't be able to very well. Spiritually speaking, many of us, through abuse, neglect, spiritual trauma and hurt, spiritual attacks, and other such things, carry some deep wounds and trauma. Some of us carry wounds and "broken legs" from childhood that have never been properly addressed and healed. The symptoms of these things often come out as sin and compulsive behaviors that we never seem able to shake no matter how much will power and repentance we try to summon up. The issue is that God needs to heal us of "the broken leg" so that we can dance again. Sometimes, we unintentionally pile on additional guilt and frustration on people (and ourselves!) because we try to deal with it through our own will power, dedication, commitment, discipline, etc. My wife and I once joined a church in the aftermath of a nasty split. 5 years after the split (and the church was on its 5th senior pastor since the split). It was full of gossip, backbiting, anger, political maneuvering, and it was very unhealthy. It seemed like every other week some type of drama was unfolding. I had never seen anything like this in my life (and never have since then). In hindsight, almost all of the problems stemmed from one simple thing. Many long term members of the church had been deeply wounded and felt betrayed by the pastor during the original split. This pain had turned into bitterness. A few of them (including a couple board members) felt like they could never trust another pastor again and this spread throughout the church. No amount of reasoning, confrontation, or anything was going to do much until God dealt with their pain and unforgiveness toward someone who had left years earlier. The thing is, they had truly and deeply been hurt badly. These were good people that had their church life pulled out from under them and basically been left on their own to deal with it. Unfortunately, a few very influential people (who'd been members for decades) carried a root of unforgiveness and bitterness that spilled over into a lot of people. They (and those of us who joined later) were so focused on the symptoms of the current church turmoil being the "real" problem that nothing could be resolved. Sadly, it took a couple funerals years later (and long after we gave up and left) before the church calmed down. The challenge is that it is not easy to see what this deep root cause is in others (and often ourselves). We need to get to know people and listen a lot. We need to be patient, ask wise questions, and not create more damage. We often need God to give us good discernment about what is and is not the real problem in their lives. We want to make sure that we have the same priorities for "fixing" someone that God does. Sometimes the most obvious and troubling symptoms are not the main thing God wants to work on first. So having said all of this, I'd counsel asking God to give you discernment and wisdom to see what God wants to do in your friend's life. I think there's a good chance that the smoking and drinking were primarily driven by something else. If that "something else" is not addressed, simply stopping the smoking and drinking will leave that "something else" in place and it will manifest itself again in some other undesirable behavior. For example, did she start smoking and drinking because she was lonely and felt that would give her more friends and acceptance? Was she lonely because she feels she's worthless? What happened to make her feel worthless? Was there a time of vulnerability in her life when the enemy used someone (perhaps a parent in a moment of anger) shouting "I wish we'd never have had you" to bury a lie deep into her that she's worthless. I'm NOT saying that is what the case is for your friend! But these are the types of burdens and crippling lies of the enemy that many of us carry hidden within that become broken legs that prevent us from dancing in the freedom God wants us to. I just gave those questions and example to suggest the type of unfolding process and questions it takes to dig deeper into what God really wants to work on. There is a spiritual enemy in the world that wants to embed lies and hurts into our lives to cripple us. It often takes God's light shining in our lives to see it. God wants to heal those broken legs so we can dance and run and jump in freedom before Him.

I'm with @bryan on this one. The article linked to at Tripod primarily criticizes misrepresentation of the Barna research and report. It is not a direct criticism of the Barna work itself. I think the comments and analysis in the Barna link in the OP were reasonable.

I've heard this in a couple of different contexts. These two I would tend to agree with as being something to steer clear of. 1. The first is making excuses or rationalizing why it's okay for us to do something we shouldn't be. Examples: Since everyone else is doing it why shouldn't I do it? Or, that only applies to other people, not me. 2. The second is approaching everything through a filter of "unless it can be proven it a lab, it's cannot be real" type of thinking. From my perspective, science is a method and tool whereby we can learn a lot. However, some people make the assumption that science is the only reliable method for acquiring knowledge and that nothing exists outside the physical universe. However, I do not think that these are adequate reasons to not develop the ability to think logically, systematically, and clearly. If you read the Gospels and Epistles, you will find dialogs and discussions based on logical and thoughtful progressions of ideas. Indeed, Jesus often dealt with those opposing Him by simply pointing out common sense examples of why blind adherence to rules and traditions made no sense. The reality is that all Christians apply some degree of reasoning and common sense. For example, Jesus clearly stated "If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. Matt 5:29-30 NIV I think it safe to say that virtually all Christians understand that Jesus was not giving a literal command to be followed here. If we believed it was literal, we'd have Christian doctors performing safe amputations as a service to the body of Christ. We all understand that we apply common sense here and say that this is not a literal command to be followed. Even though this could be applied today in some form of rule such as "If you are addicted to viewing porn, it would be better to make yourself blind than to end up in hell", no one takes that verse and applies it that way today. NOR SHOULD THEY! We clearly understand that maiming ourselves does not produce spiritual fruit. Why? Because maiming ourselves physically does not change our heart. Paul addresses something related to this in Galatians regarding those Christians who believed that all Christians must follow the law of Moses and be circumcised. Good spiritual fruit and holiness is a result of being transformed inside by the Holy Spirit, not by creating physical situations around us to slow down the sin. The net result is that we take Matthew 5:29-30 and say that it doesn't mean what it plainly says but that we need to interpret it to find what Jesus really intended us to learn. All Christians apply some degree of rationality and thought to which verses and passages of Scripture apply to us individually and corporately whether they admit it or not. Speaking for myself, I listen most carefully to those people that plainly admit that they do not know everything and lay out the reasons why they believe what certain verses and passages mean and are willing to listen to questions about that. I've been involved in a few groups (one church and one ministry group) where the leaders would basically give their interpretation and then attack any questions with "that's what the Bible says! Don't you believe the Bible?" Both that church and group started getting rather cult-like (and needless to say we left both).

And to put it in a larger context, image Paul and company on leaky boats on the Mediterranean.

I had a college roommate (who became a good lifelong friend and married my wife's best friend) who had played in a rock band in the bar scene before he became a Christian. He's the one who taught me to play "by ear". He had a lot of bad memories tied closely to playing in that band. He needed to get away from playing music for a number of years. I tried to talk him into playing for the worship team at church, but he refused. For a number of years, he'd only worship on the piano or with guitar by himself (or on occasion a small group of people). Years later, God redeemed music for him and he was able to enjoy doing it again without the baggage it used to have for him. I like an eclectic range of genres from hymns to liturgies to classical to celtic/folk to rock to symphonic metal. There's even some hip hop that I was surprised to find I liked. FWIW, (I don't think there are any rules against sharing this info about a link. If so, I'll edit it out.) the station I volunteer for streams (for free) at 97x.fm (WIXL in Madison, WI). The fellow who puts together the playlist does an amazing job at running an eclectic collection of genres and songs. Hundreds of different songs per week, no repeats in a 8 hour period. We have a good local Christian station that targets a more mainstream Christian audience (i.e. married people in their 30s with kids). We intentionally target teens and young adults. For the most part, in any given hour, you will probably hear a few songs you don't like, a few songs you just love, and a few you've never heard before. It's certainly not a fit for everyone's taste in music. Most pastors at our church don't listen to it even though the church sponsors it. But it might be a good resource to be able to listen to a wide range of artists and songs for free that don't get played by most mainstream Christian stations. EDIT[Note that the streaming service we use sometimes messes up the artist/song information. For example, it is NOT Prince's Purple Rain playing at the moment.]

In the OT, especially Psalms, there is extensive reference to music. In reading the Psalms, one can see a wide range of thoughts and emotions being expressed in many different ways. Some Psalms are concrete recitations of historical events. Other Psalms are very symbolic using a lot of imagery. Some are joyful; some are sad; some are dark and painful; some focus on God and His glory; and some focus on the plight of the Psalmist. Sadly, we do not have the music recorded in a concrete manner that allows us to know for sure how these were sung, what the range of music styles might have been, and what instruments were used for them. However, based on the emotions being described, I do not think it out of line to assume that the style and instruments used reflected what was being expressed. For example, I cannot imagine how something like Psalm 51 (David's confession of sin) and Psalm 150 (a call to worship God joyfully) would have been sung to the same tune in the same style on the same instrument. Some of the Psalms do contain some description of instrumentation and its use. For example, Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre,4 praise him with timbrel and dancing, praise him with the strings and pipe,5 praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals. (Psalm 150:3-5 NIV) In addition, the historical books contain a few descriptions of worship. I Chron 15 is the story of bringing the ark into Jerusalem. In particular verse 28 gives this description, "So all Israel brought up the ark of the covenant of the Lord with shouts, with the sounding of rams’ horns and trumpets, and of cymbals, and the playing of lyres and harps." (I Chr 15:28 NIV). I am left with the impression in the OT that the music and worship described covers a variety of styles and emotions. The NT does not give much detail about music. I know a few denominations take the lack of mention of musical instruments in the NT to mean that Christians are only allowed to sing music a cappella (that is with voices only and no instruments). But as far as I can tell, most Christians seem to take Psalms and descriptions of OT worship as an example of using both singing and instruments as acceptable. Sometimes guilt and remorse is God's way of convicting us to point out something is wrong. However, sometimes it is an unhealthy consequence of legalism where we've made our Christian walk about following particular rules. I've been involved in music most of my adult life. I'm now doing some volunteer work for a local lower power FM Christian radio station. Most of the music played is definitely from the heavier genres of Christian music. We also stream online (and have people regularly listening around the world including some countries where Christianity is restricted). A couple people mentioned that a few local retail businesses and restaurants in the city tune to our station. My sense is that many songs are individual in nature and that God uses a range of them to touch people at a particular point in their life. A couple that hit me very strongly at low points in my life were "Winds of Change" by Kutless and "Unbreakable" by Fireflight. I remember the first time I heard the Fireflight song was riding in the van with my family and my daughter wanted to listen to her new CD. A few of the lyrics resonated with me and how I was feeling at that time and gave me some much needed encouragement. Sometimes it's hard to just keep going But faith is moving without knowing Can I trust what I can't see To reach my destiny I want to take control but I know better God, I want to dream again Take me where I've never been I want to go there This time I'm not scared Now I am unbreakable, it's unmistakable No one can touch me Nothing can stop me Forget the fear it's just a crutch That tries to hold you back And turn your dreams to dust All you need to do is just trust One of the cool things about being involved with the radio station is the individual testimonies of how God reached out and touched people through particular songs. People hitting the scan button on their car radio and running across a song. Other people seeing a poster for the station and tuning in to hear some song for the first time that affected them. One of our volunteers basically became a Christian after having "randomly" run across the station and started listening to it.

From the eating standpoint, I see no issues with it. My wife and daughter went with an all plant and whole food based diet about a year ago for a number of reasons. We still get our grass fed beef (for me and a family friend we have Sunday supper with every week) from some friends that have a farm. Most of the food we get is either organic or grown locally. We basically avoid processed food products. I don't eat as much meat or dairy as I used to, but I haven't sworn off it. My daughter also avoids products (such as chocolate) that have a bad reputation for exploitation of people in the production of it around the world. I've done some research and my sense is that avoiding processed foods (high in salt, corn syrup, and preservatives) is a good idea. Ultimately, the goal of processed foods is easy mass production, distribution, storage, and profits. Increasing salt content of products causes them to absorb more water (and weight) meaning you can put less product in a half-pound container since it has more water. The stuff my wife and daughter gave me to read about plant based diets is not overwhelmingly compelling to me. I downloaded the data from the China Project to analyze it myself. I really don't see the case for absence of meat correlating to health in that data. But my sense is that eating more fiber based natural plants and plant products is generally healthier than the typical western diet that includes tons of processed foods. The bottom line is that they are both feeling better (especially my daughter who has lost about 20 pounds in the past year and is sleeping better). On the other hand, I've lost over 50 pounds in the past couple of years mostly due to getting a lot of stress out of my life more so than a diet change. Now, from the ideological standpoint, there are a couple things about vegan views to be aware of. Some are animal rights advocates in contrast to animal welfare advocates. Animal rights advocates push for the idea that animals should have rights in the same sense as humans having rights. Animal welfare advocates push for humane treatment and good stewardship practices. My sense is that the vast majority of Christians are animal welfare advocates to some degree. However, the vegans who are animal rights advocates would ban all meat eating (and other things) due to violating the rights of animals to not be killed and eaten or used by humans. Biblically speaking, the disciples and Jesus ate fish. For example, John 6 (in the story of the feeding of 5000) there is verse 11 "Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks,and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted. He did the same with the fish." If Jesus had been an animal rights advocate in the sense that some vegans are, this would have been a perfect teaching point to the disciples about not eating fish. However, the fish were distributed along with the bread. In addition, there is no mention of a dietary change during the Passover (which by the Law of Moses included a lamb). If a dietary change eliminating meat was going to happen, it seems this would have been the ideal time to do it by changing the Passover rules. In first Corinthians (addressing the issue if it was okay to eat meat from an animal sacrificed to an idol), Paul writes, "Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience". If there was an ethical issue with eating meat (likely from bulls, cows, goats, or similar), Paul would have likely raised that as an issue and simply told them not to eat any meat rather than discussing in detail about the source of the meat being from sacrifices or not. There is also Peter's vision in Acts 10 where Peter is explicitly shown animals to eat. My sense is that the Bible has explicit examples that show Jesus and the disciples eating meat and not explicitly condemning eating meat of various types. In addition, the OT has the practice of sacrifices at the temple in which the person bringing the sacrifice and the priest both would eat meat from the sacrifice. Also, the simple fact of the promised land being constantly referred to as a land flowing with milk and honey suggests that animal products were considered a normal and desirable part of a diet. The bottom line is that there is no explicit mention of animal rights (as contrasted to animal welfare) as a moral imperative. However, to me, a key point in this is that often when eating meat in the Bible, the person usually had some type of connection with the animal. There is a huge difference (in my opinion) between an agrarian society where people do their own killing and processing of animals that they raised or hunted themselves, and have some degree of respect for the animal in contrast to our frankly awful modern mass production system where people have no clue where meat comes from. This is a contradictory type of thing, but I grew up in a rural area where many people lived on farms and most people hunted to put meat on the table and viewed killing as a solemn thing that was not done lightly. These are people who would kill animals for meat but be infuriated at poachers or hunters who killed deer purely for getting a nice set of antlers to mount. Also, one of the surest ways to be disrespected (at least where I grew up) was to become known as a farmer or a person that mistreated animals. In my opinion, meat eating in the Bible was largely associated with hunting, fishing, or agriculture where there was a close personal involvement with the animals and a keen awareness of what was being done. I think that there is a difference between that and what we have in the U.S. (and other countries) today where people can walk into a store and pick up a clean sanitized package. If a Christian has strong views about the treatment of animals and has severe qualms about eating meat or other animal products or using animal products, I don't think they should eat them or use them. I don't think other Christians should be obnoxious about it either (and do things like waving a bacon cheeseburger in their face figuratively or literally) and should be respectful about it. I think that the converse holds as well.

You phrased that well. That's precisely my point and question. I had the *impression* (which is why I am asking clarifying questions and being rather tenacious about this issue in this thread) that some here might be counseling everyone in a second marriage (which occurred after conversion, having had kids together, and now been married for decades) to get an annulment, separation, or to in some way to immediately end the second the marriage. And that not doing it is proof of being in open rebellion against God. To me, something simply does not add up when we put Jane in a position whereby having had an abortion and not married as a teenager would allow her to marry John without any issue. Her having taken the much harder road (before being a Christian) to keep her child and raise him and find a good father for him (and having then committed to a life long marriage) being considered a continuing sin whereas abortion and fleeing responsibility would not be considered a continuing sin, something just does not add up here. I used to have very strong views on divorce (much like some articulated on this thread). However, when faced with the reality that my views on divorce were leading me to the conclusion that John and Jane raising 4 kids was a more sinful lifestyle than if they were raising 3 kids, I realized something was amiss with my views on divorce. This is why I try to understand the historical context of Jesus' and Paul's words and what the spirit of the law (not just the letter) is meant to be. If the spirit of the law is meant to be strong stable marriages are God's intention for humanity, there is a place for forgiveness and reconciliation in the church for some in second marriages. If the spirit of the law is meant to be that the first person we ever have physical intimacy with is the only person we are ever allowed to have relations with (until they die) and be married to, then there is no recourse but for every Christian in any type of second relationship to immediately break it off.

Could you please clarify this response? I apologize if my question was not clear. What do John and Jane need to do today to be forgiven and get right with God?

Many years ago, I knew a Christian couple with 4 kids. I'll call them John and Jane (should some day I decide to use my real name here). Jane had become pregnant in HS, married the guy, and kept the child. A few years later she was divorced and never saw the guy after that. She was a single mother for years and then met John. In their early 30s, they both became Christians. I met them in their 40s as solid Christians. It wasn't until years later until we were sitting around talking that Jane mentioned her past. So, what would Jesus have me do? Confront John and Jane in love that she and John were both adulterers, the 3 kids they had together were bastards, and that they should immediately separate? What part of her past is covered by the blood of Jesus? All of it? Part of it? What does repentance from adultery look like in this situation? This is the reason why I try to diligently seek to understand the full meaning and intent of scripture AND how to apply it. John and Jane now have a healthy solid marriage and were raising their kids well. Fast forward from when I knew them and they've been married now for close to 40 years. Sorry, but "Jesus says THEY ARE ADULTERERS IN SIN" is a nice simple statement to make to accuse them, BUT how should other Christians treat John and Jane and their kids? What would you say that scripture commands them to do? Do we shun them? Do we kick them out of church? We all come to Christ with a ton of baggage. What should people with this type of baggage do about it? What do John and Jane need to do in order to be forgiven and get right with God? How should other Christians treat them and what should other Christians tell them to do?