Bible - Can we trust it?

[BigJer]

We can trust in the Qur'an, which is God's final chapter. Jesus prophecized one last prophet before he returned...three guesses on whom he was talking about. [it wasn't Elijah!]

KB just tipped his hat as to where he is coming from.

[BigJer]

The tests of the cannocal books were this:

It needed to be apostolicity. (written either by an apostle or someone closely connected to one.)

The book had to have the capacity to edify when read publicly.

It had to agree with the rule of faith.

Historical verification of apostolic authorship.

----------------

5500 manuscripts attest to the integrity of the bible

The apocrypa was not declaired to be a part of scripture until about 1546, at the same period of time that other strange doctrines were begun.

The burdon of proof is on you, KB, to prove authenticity of all the other scriptures. You point to different references. This does not mean that they are divinely inspired.

The Koran is not divinely inspired because it contradicts the Bible. Period.

[truseek]

Peace all,

Shadow - Thanks but I speak to God every day.

Also, I don't believe that God authored the Bible, as the gospels are usually named after their author... you don't see the Gospel of God now do you?

BigJer - I am not including anything outside the realm of Christianity. There are arund 24,000 'books' that come from the same time, same language, same subject. Many are within the Vatican, others are not. I know for a fact that the book of jasher is available on the internet to read. My question is why, when it was reccomended by the current Bible to read, is it not included in the Bible?

nebula - The book of Jasher isn't lost... it's available on the web. The Gospels of Thomas and Barnabas were accounts of two of the twelve! How can you say that the NT is rigorusly tested? John 1:1 was written by Philo of Alexandria, not John.

How can I trust the things I believe in? Because the Qur'an specifically challenges the reader to find error in it. If they find even one error, it is not the Book of God.

Can you issue the same challenge to the Bible?

bob - The Bible was written by man. Read Jeremiah 8:8.

idied - Where have I heard about God and Jesus? The Holy Qur'an.

BigJer - I've read that site among many others. I am appealing to the members of the forum, not to anyone else.

If the authority is questionable on the books, then why were the Apocalyptic scriptures included in early Bibles? What about the current books? Reference to Jeremiah 8:8

LadyC - Yes. We can trust in the Qur'an, which is God's final chapter. Jesus prophecized one last prophet before he returned...three guesses on whom he was talking about. [it wasn't Elijah!]

Peace.

~KB

Whoa now, doggie, the Qu'ran is heresy, plain and simple. Firstly, Mohommed was a very evil man.

In 570 A.D. Muhammad was born in Mecca (later the most holy site for Muslims). Muhammad suffered from what were probably epileptic seizures. At first he thought he was demon possessed and contemplated suicide. He soon began to believe, however, that these seizures were actually the visitation of angels. Friends and family readily agreed (his mother believed in jinns or genies, and also claimed to be visited by spirits) - all this was very typical pre-Islamic Arab superstition.

The Quran (Koran) records that at the age of 40, Muhammad received his call as a "prophet" for Allah. There are four separate and conflicting accounts of this event in the Quran. Either Allah himself (Sura 53:2-18; 81:19-24), or the "holy spirit" (Sura 16:102; 26:192-194), or some angels (Sura 15:8), or (traditionally) the Angel Gabriel (Sura 2:97) dictated the Holy Book of Islam to Muhammad.

Thus we are told that the Quran is a book written in heavenly language (conveniently it is Arabic - even Muhammad's own tribal dialect), coming straight from God to man. And so we have the Muslim holy book that is, with the exception of the controversial satanic verses (near Sura 53:19) which Allah later "edited out," 100% true and perfect.

Basically the message Muhammad preached was that of strict monotheism, in sharp contrast to the polytheism rampant in Mecca at the time. Allah (the moon god that was his tribal idol) was the only God to be worshipped. Through deceit, raiding caravans, and gaining followers through jihad ("holy" war), Muhammad's religion grew.

Muhammad's life ended, and because he had chosen no successor, the Muslims quickly divided into two major splinter groups that exist to this day (see chart below). A third group, the Sufi mystics, also split off. Islam also has its cults - the Black Muslim movement being prime.

The Bible gives us clear cut instructions on how to recognize a false prophet. Because the Quran recognizes the Old Testament as authoritative, Muhammad falls under its authority and it's tests. By definition a true prophet must fulfill (at least) two major criteria to prove himself.

A prophet may function in two ways, one as a foreteller - correctly revealing the future, and another as a forthteller - correctly revealing God and His Word. The Bible is simple and clear in these regards...

"If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.

[BobTriez]

KB,

Q. Who's in Muhammad's grave ?

A. Muhammad

Q. Who's in Jesus' grave ?

A. No one!

Any questions ?

[eric]

Close the door on the way out KB....if you don't mind :oww:

[Leonard]

KB: Most of your 'information' is really faulty! I don't know what you've been reading, but somebody is yanking your chain.

NOT ONE reliable scholar is going to accept almost anything you've said. You have shown you don't know how the Canon of Scripture came to be accepted, and you have misconstrued the words Jesus something awful. I simply don't have time to even begin to cover such a dreadful depth of erroneous stuff, I work a full time job, teach seminary part time, and am trying to start a business.

If you'd like to address one question at a time, I'd love to answer. But don't give us the 'scatter gun' effect. That's just throwing a bunch of "you-know-what" at the wall to see if you can get any to stick, and to harm new Christians who might take such drivel seriously.

[Botz]

Katatonic Bliss I reckon that you are a fisherman and you will use any bait to see what you can reel in...I don't believe for a moment that you have committed intellectual suicide and accept the Qur'an as the Truth...especially in light of the overwhelming debunking it has undergone...one would have to believe in a flat earth to have a mind that could contain all its plagiarism,anachronisms and complete nonsense...IMHO.

[other one]

Katatonic Bliss I reckon that you are a fisherman and you will use any bait to see what you can reel in.... 

Botz, I agree and the bait he's using is "bologna".

Sam

[Guest Katatonic Bliss]

I will try and answer everyone, for I am pressed for time.

Other one - I'm not trying to bait any of you.

Botz - Really! Well then. Please open a thread and accept the challenges of the Qur'an! I will give you just one: [004:082] Do they not consider the Quran (with care)? Had it been from other Than God, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.

I've already answered ten challenges to this Surah. Care to try?

Also, Can the Bible be put to the same test???

Lenoard - All I asked is why Books that are talked of in the Bible AREN'T IN THE BIBLE. I know the Book of Jasher exists. Why is it not Holy? Instead of making hearsay, why not just take the challenge stated above?

Eric - I'm not leaving anytime soon .

Bob - Your point?

Truseek - Oi... this is going to be a long reply.

Here we go: Wrong. Arabs were pagans in the time of Muhammad At the time, they worshipped rocks and trees and stuff. Jinns are not spirits, they are beings of smokeless flame. None of his friends and family claimed to be 'visited'. for a complete history of Muhammad, pm me, as I don't really think that the moderators appreciate me backing my claims with sources publicly.

muhammad's revelations were given to him by Gabriel AKA the Holy Spirit, who was an Angel SENT By God. God taught Muhammad through Gabriel, the Holy Spirit.

Although the true language of the Heavenly Qur'an is unknown, God sent down an arabic Qur'an : [012:002] We have sent it down as an Arabic Quran, in order that ye may learn wisdom.

Produce the Satanic verses if you are truthful. Let me ask you a question: Why would God need to 'edit out' the verses and why do only anti Islamic Christians state such?

Muhammad's dialect is the most proper dialect of the seven main Arabic dialects. But yea, that's also a coincidence I guess

I've gone over 'Allah' Arthur Durnan and I'll do it again. Arabic speaking Christians use the word Allah to say God. in Arabic Bibles, the word used is 'Allah'. So Allah is a pagan moon God? Let's see what my Pagan Moon God has to say about this: [013:016] Say: "Who is the Lord and Sustainer of the heavens and the earth?" Say: "(It is) God." Say: "Do ye then take (for worship) protectors other than Him, such as have no power either for good or for harm to themselves?" Say: "Are the blind equal with those who see? Or the depths of darkness equal with light?" Or do they assign to God partners who have created (anything) as He has created, so that the creation seemed to them similar? Say: "God is the Creator of all things: He is the One, the Supreme and Irresistible."

Honestly...

Muhammad had chosen his best friend to succeed him, however, there were some who rallied Muhammad's son to be caliph. THIS is how Sunni and Shia sects began.

Muhammad never raided squat!

jihad means 'to struggle' not Holy War. jihad is a defensive action that is only taken up when all means of peace have failed.

There are Christian cults as well.

Your quote pertains to deut 18:18! Astonishing! Because that is the same prophecy that Muhammad fufilled! So God TELLS you to obey Muhammad. Whadda ya know?

To answer the other quotes, please answer the challenge stated above.

I am truly sorry but I must end here. I will respond to the rest of the post and others as soon as possible.

The best way to get a response is to not post yet... If you want me to respond to you, then take a number

[BobTriez]

Bob - Your point?

Ok, I'll only answer your question to me.....my point ? you serve a DEAD "prophet" ( and I use that term loosely- your's was a false "prophet" ); I serve a LIVING Saviour!!! What hope do you have ? Your prophet is dead ?

That was my point.....

Serving JESUS,

Bob