Is America the Great Babylon?

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Your post only serves to support my convictions that the ten kings (the EU) are the ones who will fulfill the will of God and bring about America's annihilation.

Re 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Again, based on this verse I have long taught the coming common currency between America and the EU. The "logic" for it is easy to see, to stabilize "our" economy in the face of China's growing economic and military might. The greedy motives of man are but the vices whereby they are led forth to their own destruction.

But the thing is, regardless of what the future of the U.S is, only the following regions of the world are mentioned in Bible prophecy:

1. Egypt.

2. Assyrian Empire.

3. Babylonian Empire.

4. Medo-Persian Empire.

5. Greek Empire.

6. Roman Empire.

7. ??? Empire.

8. "the beast from the bottomless pit who is "of the first 7" empires.

Bible prophecy singles out Egypt and Elam (Persia/Iran) and Edom (Syria/Jordan) etc. Dan.2 and 7 singles out the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek and Roman Empires.

The Medo-Persian Empire incorporated modern-day Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan - so did the Islamic Ottoman-Turk Empire when it was at its height.

These empires also all incorporated North Africa.

Rev.13:2 compared with Daniel 7 tells us that the 8th empire will be a combination of the Babylonian, Medo-Persian and Greek Empires; and Daniel 2 and 7 tell us that it will also incorporate the former Western half of the Roman Empire.

Those areas were "the whole world" to the Bible's prophets.

NOT mentioned in Bible prophecy are the following regions of the world:

1. India and China.

2. South-East Asia, the Philippines, Australia and New Zealand.

3. North, South and Central America.

4. Sub-Saharan Africa.

5. Indian Ocean and Pacific islands.

The whore of Revelation is intimately linked to the first seven empires, and the U.S.A is in a region of the world that never was part of those empires and is not mentioned in Bible prophecy.

So the way I still see it, we can speculate on the future of the U.S.A, but the bottom line is, the U.S.A is nevertheless not mentioned in Bible prophecy. There may be many similarities in the mind of many Christians between the way the U.S.A behaves and the way the Babylonian Empire and all other empires behaved, but that's where the similarity ends, because the U.S.A is a superpower whose super-power status quite possibly (and even probably) is waxing old - for a brief moment in time its had its glory-days, but summer (it would seem) is over.

There are definitely similarities in certain respects between the pride of empires and the U.S.A - for example, I supported (I'm not American) but I supported the U.S invasion of Iraq (although with hindsight I now think it was a huge mistake and America should have saved its fire-power for Iran), but I was nevertheless appalled by the words "Operation shock and Awe" - it reminded me too much of The Great and awesome days of the LORD" and I was sure that that is where full-of-pride military men and politicians had got it from. "America," I thought, "is relying too much on its military might instead of on God". It had me genuinely worried. Then one day I saw Pres Bush say "Islam is a great faith", and I thought, "Mr. Bush, Jesus can hear you, you're looking for trouble, no matter how politically expedient you think such a statement may be". There are lots of statements like that which came out of the mouths of America's leaders from time to time which showed me that they had developed a false sense of security and forgotten that it is God who makes nations rise up and become great and it's God who destroys those same nations. Millions of American Christians have not forgotten that, but too many of America's leaders and secular Americans seem to have forgotten.

So I know why you may think America could be likened to "Babylon the Great".

But America is not the only nation guilty of the things I mentioned above - most nations are also guilty of what America is guilty of, the only difference being that America is one of three superpowers.

But "Babylon the Great" is a religious system in union with and empire - a marriage between religion and state, such as it was in the (Roman Catholic) Holy Roman Empire. And Babylon the Great is linked to the first seven kingdoms; and the first seven kingdoms do not incorporate the United States.

So whatever we can speculate about the future of the U.S, we cannot link that future with anything written in the book of Revelation, because in this regard, America is no different from Australia, for example.

The King is coming.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

Amen!

It was more of a speculation than any thing for me. I guess it's all speculation since we don't know exactly what the future holds.

[lekh l'kha]

Iran offers setting up economic bloc

http://www.worthychristianforums.com/index.php?/topic/127399-wn-iran-offers-setting-up-economic-bloc-tehran-times/

"Iran is ready to hold a meeting with economy ministers of Syria, Iraq, and Turkey to discuss setting up an economic bloc in the region, the Iranian Minister of Economic Affairs and Finance stated...."

Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Iran - the rising again of the Ottoman-Turk empire - the head of the beast that was mortally wounded by the defeat of the Ottoman-Turk empire by the allied forces in WWI. The mortal wound is healing. "Like a leopard, a bear, and a lion" (Rev.13: 2; Dan.7: 3-6).

Speculative, but a speculation with a little bit of Biblical backing, considering it's that region in the world which is mentioned in Bible prophecy, along with the Roman Empire.

The seventh empire might have been the Ottoman Turk Empire, and the 8th will rise out of the bottomless pit - the region of Babylon - the ancient Babylonian Empire, the Persian Empire, the Greek Empire, which will incorporate not only what it incorporated before ( the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire and pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan etc), but also this time, the Western Roman Empire.

[suzilmcmullen]

Well, time will tell how we are further punished for our iniquities here in America. With Arnie calling for Gay marriages in California and Vegas labeling itself as sin city, and the rest, we should see some majorly heavy fire some day soon. I'm pretty sure that America WILL NOT be a part of the new world order in any way shape or form. If there are any Americans abroad when these things happen I believe that they can expect persecution as well.

Why wouldn't the countries who are atheist or islamic, or whatever, be the recipients of God's wrath rather than countries who are at least partly Christian? I mean wouldn't God be much angrier at Iran or North Korea than the U.S.? Why are you so convinced that this is the worst country in the eyes of the Lord?

I didn't write this. But I do believe that in many ways America is far worse than atheistic countries. Tell me this... What is worse... Is it worse to grow up in a country that has deep religious ideas that are not of God and to barely have any reason to change those ideas...

Or...

Is it worse to live in a land of freedom, God's way, receive so many of God's great blessings, to raise to heights few people will ever know and THEN to turn our backs on God?

In the old testament it was made very clear that sin was to be rooted out of a clan of people. Evil doers were to be destroyed. So many of us just bury our heads in the sand and do nothing at all about the sin that's so rampent all around us. How many Christians in this country even take 5 minutes out of their day to pray and ask forgiveness for the terrible destruction all around us? We have absolutely NO IDEA what it means to be persecuted for our beliefs. We will find out one day and I fear it's going to be soon. We haven't even stopped the slaughtering of our babies!

[vlad]

Well, time will tell how we are further punished for our iniquities here in America. With Arnie calling for Gay marriages in California and Vegas labeling itself as sin city, and the rest, we should see some majorly heavy fire some day soon. I'm pretty sure that America WILL NOT be a part of the new world order in any way shape or form. If there are any Americans abroad when these things happen I believe that they can expect persecution as well.

Why wouldn't the countries who are atheist or islamic, or whatever, be the recipients of God's wrath rather than countries who are at least partly Christian? I mean wouldn't God be much angrier at Iran or North Korea than the U.S.? Why are you so convinced that this is the worst country in the eyes of the Lord?

I didn't write this. But I do believe that in many ways America is far worse than atheistic countries. Tell me this... What is worse... Is it worse to grow up in a country that has deep religious ideas that are not of God and to barely have any reason to change those ideas...

Or...

Is it worse to live in a land of freedom, God's way, receive so many of God's great blessings, to raise to heights few people will ever know and THEN to turn our backs on God?

In the old testament it was made very clear that sin was to be rooted out of a clan of people. Evil doers were to be destroyed. So many of us just bury our heads in the sand and do nothing at all about the sin that's so rampent all around us. How many Christians in this country even take 5 minutes out of their day to pray and ask forgiveness for the terrible destruction all around us? We have absolutely NO IDEA what it means to be persecuted for our beliefs. We will find out one day and I fear it's going to be soon. We haven't even stopped the slaughtering of our babies!

I have read this thread and I still have more questions than answers. And I guess it is natural. I am afraid to comment on the Revelation and try and compare countries that way as there is a direct admonition not to interpret the Revelation at the very end of it. As our opinions are likely to be arbitrary in whatever country you live today sooner or later it may seem to be a kind of Babylon. The whole world looks like Babylon.

[Guest bjhulk]

Well, time will tell how we are further punished for our iniquities here in America. With Arnie calling for Gay marriages in California and Vegas labeling itself as sin city, and the rest, we should see some majorly heavy fire some day soon. I'm pretty sure that America WILL NOT be a part of the new world order in any way shape or form. If there are any Americans abroad when these things happen I believe that they can expect persecution as well.

Why wouldn't the countries who are atheist or islamic, or whatever, be the recipients of God's wrath rather than countries who are at least partly Christian? I mean wouldn't God be much angrier at Iran or North Korea than the U.S.? Why are you so convinced that this is the worst country in the eyes of the Lord?

I didn't write this. But I do believe that in many ways America is far worse than atheistic countries. Tell me this... What is worse... Is it worse to grow up in a country that has deep religious ideas that are not of God and to barely have any reason to change those ideas...

Or...

Is it worse to live in a land of freedom, God's way, receive so many of God's great blessings, to raise to heights few people will ever know and THEN to turn our backs on God?

In the old testament it was made very clear that sin was to be rooted out of a clan of people. Evil doers were to be destroyed. So many of us just bury our heads in the sand and do nothing at all about the sin that's so rampent all around us. How many Christians in this country even take 5 minutes out of their day to pray and ask forgiveness for the terrible destruction all around us? We have absolutely NO IDEA what it means to be persecuted for our beliefs. We will find out one day and I fear it's going to be soon. We haven't even stopped the slaughtering of our babies!

I have read this thread and I still have more questions than answers. And I guess it is natural. I am afraid to comment on the Revelation and try and compare countries that way as there is a direct admonition not to interpret the Revelation at the very end of it. As our opinions are likely to be arbitrary in whatever country you live today sooner or later it may seem to be a kind of Babylon. The whole world looks like Babylon.

You're right about the whole world being Babylon. It actuallly means the sinful flesh of man. All God's people except for the messiah, were born with genetic sins and the only people to become sinless in this age were the saints who came after Jesus. The Roman government had them all killed in the first three hundred years after Jesus was killed by them. The prophets were also God's people but they died sinners. It was faith that was needed for us to be created together as the Word. This means we were the only one's to escape Babylon but we still have a flesh that will die during this age. The beast is the religious mindset that came from Babylon and entered the minds of the Jews while they were captives there. It entered the minds of the Persians, Greeks, Romans and then into the minds of Christians so there are billions of sinners on this planet today with the beast in their minds.

[RevelationWriter]

~ By the time of The Great Tribulation

things will be very different than it is now.

I think so much of what is said pertaining to ("Mystery") Babylon

is viewed through how one sees things now.

I believe this causes Political Preachers to live out self proclaimed Prophecies to Lead by.

Which I refuse to adhere to as truth.

- There is Only One Land Mass that God Said He entered Into A Covenent With.

To which there are over 850 Scriptures about. Much of them are Prophetic.

And it's not America.

And it's not even Rome to which there is only 9 Scriptures and none of the 9 are even Prophetic.

The only Land Mass God has ever said He entered into Covenant with is Jerusalem. - Ez.16

She has always struggled to Live in her own Blood. As her navel cord was never cut....

Edited October 8, 2010 by RevelationWriter

[Guest Having Full Faith]

Whats your take about who the the Great Babylon spoken of in Revelations is referring too:

And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; and the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. (Revelation 18:21-24)

The destruction of this country will be so severe that it will be uninhabitable. Not even the light of one lamp will be found in this place. For in one day it will be reduced to rubble.

America isnt the Great Babylon actually the orginal Babylon is being re-built by donated money from the European and American Countries. Read the Coming Economic Armageddon by Dr. David Jeremiah it will explain everything

[SDAinFLA]

America is not Babylon. America is the 2nd beast of Revelation 13. Babylon is a 3 fold union of paganism/occult and Catholicism and False Protestantism. When God's judgement hits this earth at that time ALL false religion will fall into the fallen category of Revelation 18

[Guest wingedlion]

Christians make several mistakes when it comes to interpreting spiritual symbiols from prophetic passages, first, they try to interpret with physical means, such as trying to put a physical face on a spiritual symbol such as trying to make America sound like Babylon, whose oppression of God's people reaches far beyond that of just the mere 200+ year history of the USA, but is an integral part of Old and New Testament prophecy, and the symbol of "Babylon" is then is a spiritual Satanic Kingdom of the Occult, and they are what the Bibles calls the enemies of God. They are the ones who are trying to establish a one world government and a world governed by the Anti-Christ. It is not the physical nation of the USA.