Justin Martyr AD151- re sunday fellowship

[Guest]

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. . . But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

Jesus didn't rise on Sunday.

Care to provide scripture for that?

In my bible it says in Math 28:1 "Now AFTER the sabbath, as the FIRST day of the week began to DAWN, Mary Mag`dalene and the other Mary came to see the TOMB"

Capitalised words are for highlight, and not shouted.

Interesting!

Part of the confusion has come from verses like John 19:31. This verse says, "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the Sabbath day (for that Sabbath day was an high day), besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away." The Sabbath in John 19:31 is not the regular Saturday Sabbath. It was the Passover Sabbath, which occurred on Thursday of the crucifixion week. Note that John 19:31 says, "For that Sabbath day was an high day." If it were talking of the Saturday Sabbath, then Christ would have been crucified on Friday. All the feast days God gave to Israel were considered Sabbaths though they did not fall on Saturday. Jesus was crucified on the preparation (Wednesday) of the Sabbath (Passover Sabbath) which was Thursday.

Now at what time of the day did Jesus die? It was around three in the afternoon on Wednesday. "And it was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: And having said thus, he gave up the ghost (Luke 23:44-46)." When it says the ninth hour, it means the ninth hour since the break of day. In other words, it was three o'clock in the afternoon. Jesus was taken away from the cross and hurriedly buried the same afternoon before sundown or 6:00 p.m.

Now remember that the Jewish day always begins at sundown or at about 6:oo p.m. Our day begins at midnight, but the Jewish day began at sunset. In Leviticus 23:32, the Lord said, "From even unto even shall ye celebrate your Sabbath."

If you count 72 hours from late Wednesday afternoon at around 6:00 p.m., then Jesus would have been in the tomb until late Saturday evening at about 6:00 p.m.

So, a Sunday morning resurrection is not what the Bible teaches. We believe that Jesus was resurrected on Saturday evening at about 6:00 p.m. Jesus was placed in the tomb at around 6:00 p.m. on Wednesday. Seventy-two hours later would be at around 6:00 p.m. on Saturday, exactly when the first day began (Sunday). Even at this hour the Jewish Sunday night begins at Saturday night at 6:00 p.m.

[Joshua-777]

. . . But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

Jesus didn't rise on Sunday.

Care to provide scripture for that?

In my bible it says in Math 28:1 "Now AFTER the sabbath, as the FIRST day of the week began to DAWN, Mary Mag`dalene and the other Mary came to see the TOMB"

Capitalised words are for highlight, and not shouted.

Matthew 28: 1 KJV In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

If the first day of the week is beginning to dawn then it is not yet the first day of the week. I think FresnoJoe covered this pretty well.

Alot of modern translations base this verse off our days rather than the biblical day, for example NIV says in the morning.

[BlindSeeker]

. . . But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

Jesus didn't rise on Sunday.

Care to provide scripture for that?

In my bible it says in Math 28:1 "Now AFTER the sabbath, as the FIRST day of the week began to DAWN, Mary Mag`dalene and the other Mary came to see the TOMB"

Capitalised words are for highlight, and not shouted.

Covered it in my thread years ago . . .

. . . and yes, Joe did and excellent job

[Hunterpoet]

It was nice to see how the early Christians conducted themselves when they gathered.

The use of the term president caught my attention.

How the offering was used to aide the orphans, widows, the ill and strangers. The offerings were not described, but I can imagine it was not totally made up of money. This could be an interesting side topic, if you had little to no money, what of your personal possessions would you tithe.

The other point was the wine water and breaking of bread, and how portions were taken to those who could not attend by the deacons.

A far cry from how worship is conducted today for sure.

[nebula]

That reminds me of a quote a friend posted on FB recently:

"What will historians say about the richest group of Christians in history who spent more on buildings than the poor?"

[Botz]

. . . But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

Jesus didn't rise on Sunday.

Care to provide scripture for that?

In my bible it says in Math 28:1 "Now AFTER the sabbath, as the FIRST day of the week began to DAWN, Mary Mag`dalene and the other Mary came to see the TOMB"

Capitalised words are for highlight, and not shouted.

Matthew 28: 1 KJV In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

If the first day of the week is beginning to dawn then it is not yet the first day of the week. I think FresnoJoe covered this pretty well.

Alot of modern translations base this verse off our days rather than the biblical day, for example NIV says in the morning.

Ahem...I agree with what Joe has written, but you need to realise that that whenthe shabbat/sabbath/seventh day/saturday finished at sundown, so the yom rishon/ sunday/ or more correctly first day of the week began....and the expression 'it began to dawn', is not in reference to it began to be the first day of the week, but that dawn was near on that first day/sunday.

To put it another way....sun-down marks the end of Shabbat and the beginning of the first day of the week....they both occur simultaneously, and Scripture has already said that Shabbat had ended, so naturally the first day of the week had begun, and the two Mary's went up to the tomb very early on YOM RISHON/SUNDAY.

[traveller]

But hadn't Jesus risen before the Mary's got there?

[Botz]

But hadn't Jesus risen before the Mary's got there?

Yes Sis...I am not disputing that, because after the third day and night in the Tomb, he rose from the dead...so sometime after the end of Shabbat on the Saturday, He arose from the dead, which would have been the first day of the week....not inthe morning, but at dusk which is when the first day begins.

I am not entirely sure that one can be pedantic about the precise time Jesus rose from the grave, because of necessity He must have been entombed before the actual beginning of the extra Shabbat which Joe pointed out began at dusk on Wednesday...e.g. it was Thursday, therefore it is conceivable that He actually rose at the end of the Saturday Shabbat as this would still have been three complete days and nights.

[traveller]

But hadn't Jesus risen before the Mary's got there?

Yes Sis...I am not disputing that, because after the third day and night in the Tomb, he rose from the dead...so sometime after the end of Shabbat on the Saturday, He arose from the dead, which would have been the first day of the week....not inthe morning, but at dusk which is when the first day begins.

I am not entirely sure that one can be pedantic about the precise time Jesus rose from the grave, because of necessity He must have been entombed before the actual beginning of the extra Shabbat which Joe pointed out began at dusk on Wednesday...e.g. it was Thursday, therefore it is conceivable that He actually rose at the end of the Saturday Shabbat as this would still have been three complete days and nights.

Sorry Botz - I misread you earlier.

[mizzdy]

You can read all the extra readings you want the bible says the Sabbath is the seventh day we are to rest on the Sabbath, you can fellowship any day of the week all day and night praise God but to label Sunday as the Lords Day or the Sabbath is unbiblical. The apostles kept following in Yeshuas sandals, keeping the Sabbath and the Feasts. The Lords day is the day of wrath, the Day Yeshua returns and that can be found in any study Zeph is a good place to read about what happens on the Day of the Lord. It seems for some reason this is a big topic with you JCISGD, if you would like to pm me I could send you some studies on this.

Mizz

We just had a discussion on this that got closed. There is nothing in the NT that says the Apostles continued to observe the Sabbath. That is infered from passages that say they went to the synagogues to preach and teach, and that isn't the same thing. The inference is wishful and it is wrong. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how one can "keep the Sabbath" without a daily sacrifice.

And you are referencing the "Lord's day" and the "Day of the Lord" as if they are the same thing and mean the same thing. They do not.

Where does God say there is a sacrifice for keeping the Sabbath? Where does God say a sacrifice is required for keeping the Sabbath is what we all need to do? And secondly Yeshua is the sacrifice of all times for all things so why is there any other needed?

The day of the Lord and the Lords Day are the same day, in Rev. 1:10 shows John seeing the future he is seeing events that will happen, how can this Lords Day be Sunday? We see the same usuage with the phrase day and Lord as seen in Zech. 12-14 when he refers to the day of the Lord which is the Day of His wrath. I'm no hebrew or greek scholar by any means! but I do see the Lxx greek using the same similiar expressive word for 'that day' as we see in the hebrew also all refering to the day He returns and pours out Gods wrath.

If the apostles tell us that we need to follow all of His examples of living righteously as they did do we see Yeshua not following the commandments? The apostles met with others on the Sabbath and most often went way into the night which others have shown so I won't go into any of that.