1 cor 11 (the hair issue)

[ladypeartree]

and yet a Jewish man would feelshame if he didnt have his head covered with at least a small cap ( sorry cant remember the mane of them )

[Fez]

and yet a Jewish man would feelshame if he didnt have his head covered with at least a small cap ( sorry cant remember the mane of them )

Yarmulke? Sorry Jewish brothers and sisters, I don't know if that is the right spelling.

[other one]

But... if the woman's covering is her hair and not something extra such as a cloth, so that having long hair means she's praying with her head covered...

Then why do men take off their hats when they pray? Is that praying with their heads uncovered?

In other words, if a man takes off his hat to pray with his head uncovered (in obedience to the Scripture), does that mean a woman would put something on her head to pray with her head covered (in obedience to the Scripture)?

I don't wear a hat And I have never seen a woman in our church wear a hat either.

I have prayed (not in church), with a baseball cap on (because it was a hot day).

Funny that. I have never thought about it, but I would not walk into church with a cap on. Not because of any doctrine in my church, but just because it somehow seems disrespectful.

around our house, you didn't wear a hat inside anywhere...... much less Church...... Dad would walk over pull your hat off and gently smack you up side the head with it.

[Guest]

If it was for cultural reasons or a Gentile/Jew mixed congregation why does Paul appeal to nature? "for even nature shows it is shamefull for a man to have long hair"

Culturally it feels weird for me to see ladies with head coverings, but also women with short hair often look manly and lose a certain beauty that comes with long hair imo.

but if there is any contention, we have no such custom, nor the churches of God

I always read that as saying there was no other teaching among the churches other than women having long hair or wearing a covering, and the word "churches" also shows it was not just for Corinthian Christians. It doesnt make sense for Paul to denounce a thing and then say, but then say "you choose i dont have a ruling"?

Im not sure what to make of it all really.

I pretty much feel the same way you do about it.

Hay!

Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.

And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. Exodus 3:1-5

Why Doesn't Anyone Ever Talk About Shoes?

And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so. Joshua 5:13-15

[Guest LadyC]

the whole issue with hair was much the same thing as the issue with women wearing what "pertains" to a man.

there were temple prostitutes back in those days (not among the believers though). these temple prostitutes were both male and female... but 'serviced' only men. so therefore you had temple female prostitutes cutting their hair short and wearing what men wore in an attempt to appear like young boys, to attract the homosexuals. you had male prostitutes growing long hair to appear more feminine to the clients that liked women. or some such stuff. where's shiloh? he's good at explaining this. he's much better studied on it than i am.

anyway, when paul talks about it being shameful and unnatural, it's not the length of the hair that he's talking about, it's the cultural perception of what that long hair on a man symbolized. (or short hair on a female.) what is shameful and unnatural is homosexual activity.

if it was shameful and unnatural for a man to have long hair (aside from the cultural perception), then God sure had it in for those nazarites, didn't He? especially samson, my goodness! God forbade samson from getting a haircut from the time before he was even born! and then when samson got stupid and told his lover the secret to his strength, and his hair got whacked off, God sure wasn't happy about it.

so no, the length of hair is not sinful, shameful or unnatural. and there is no custom, no law, no nothing in the church to condemn someone for cutting, or not cutting, their hair.

[OneLight]

I am so glad that I will be judged according to what is in my heart and not how I look. If acceptance into His glory depended upon looks, I may as well turn back to my old ways and enjoy this life cause the next one would guarantee me misery.

[Fez]

I am so glad that I will be judged according to what is in my heart and not how I look. If acceptance into His glory depended upon looks, I may as well turn back to my old ways and enjoy this life cause the next one would guarantee me misery.

We are not talking about being judged on how we look so much as on our obedience. Since you did join this topic, how do you feel about guys wearing women's clothes? Do you think it matters? What about the head covering? Do you believe it is hair, or a veil and why? Do you believe it matters if men have long hair? Is it a shame? How about women with short hair?

Butero, thats what OneLight was saying..... Except (and I agree), he spoke about what is in the heart, not just obedience (unless you are saying they are the same thing?)

[OneLight]

I am so glad that I will be judged according to what is in my heart and not how I look. If acceptance into His glory depended upon looks, I may as well turn back to my old ways and enjoy this life cause the next one would guarantee me misery.

We are not talking about being judged on how we look so much as on our obedience. Since you did join this topic, how do you feel about guys wearing women's clothes? Do you think it matters? What about the head covering? Do you believe it is hair, or a veil and why? Do you believe it matters if men have long hair? Is it a shame? How about women with short hair?

I thought my sarcasm was evident. Guess not.

As for the other questions, I am not going to judge whether a person has long or short hair. That is a personal decision between them and God. I have found no definition of how short or long a mans hair should be or if we should all shave our head to ensure it is short enough. Maybe women should never cut their hair to ensure it is long enough of a covering. I'm surprised this has not turned into a debate about makeup, or have I missed something?

The cross-dressing is a different story. Those who cross dress do so with sexual implications. I don't even like it when actors cross dress or people at parties do this. To me, it is morally wrong.

[Guest man]

1 Corinthians 11

16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

Odd that Paul would take the time to record all that and then turn around and say it's no big deal.

Consider the following.

1 Corinthians 11

3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.

[OneLight]

1 Corinthians 11

16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

Odd that Paul would take the time to record all that and then turn around and say it's no big deal.

Consider the following.

1 Corinthians 11

3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.

This is why I try to never pray with a hat on, but I don't have a shaved head either.