Rapture Question

[OneLight]

After

[rollinTHUNDER]

Pretrib due to the Nature of these promises

1 Thess 1:9-10

9 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

NKJV

1 Thess 5:9-10

9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

NKJV

Hello enoob57,

I held the pre-trib view as well, for about 15 years, until I started studying diligently myself. No doubt, it is a confusing topic, and a profound mystery of mysteries. I just wanted to point out that the two passages you quoted above are based on mere assumptions. Pre-trib scholars believe and teach that the entire seven years are God's wrath, which is not even close to the truth. Rev. 6 disproves that. God will not begin to pour out His wrath until all of the martyrs have been killed first. There is a huge difference between tribulation and God's wrath.

Rev 3:10-12

10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

NKJV

Love Steven

Another assumption that places no timing whatsoever. The hour of trial will not begin until after the abomination of desolation occurs.

The pre-trib rapture is based entirely on assumptions. Take Rev. 4:1 for example. They claim it takes place before the seven years begin, because the church is not mentioned afterward. Mid-tribbers could have made the same claim, as well as post-tribbers. But there's absolutely nothing in that verse to indicate when it happens.

I'm saying these things in love. I have no desire to argue these points. For whatever it's worth, you can take it or leave it. Like I said earlier, I used to believe those things too. I just thought I'd share a few thoughts with you on this controversial subject.

Cheers

[OneLight]

Pretrib due to the Nature of these promises

1 Thess 1:9-10

9 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

NKJV

1 Thess 5:9-10

9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

NKJV

Hello enoob57,

I held the pre-trib view as well, for about 15 years, until I started studying diligently myself. No doubt, it is a confusing topic, and a profound mystery of mysteries. I just wanted to point out that the two passages you quoted above are based on mere assumptions. Pre-trib scholars believe and teach that the entire seven years are God's wrath, which is not even close to the truth. Rev. 6 disproves that. God will not begin to pour out His wrath until all of the martyrs have been killed first. There is a huge difference between tribulation and God's wrath.

Rev 3:10-12

10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

NKJV

Love Steven

Another assumption that places no timing whatsoever. The hour of trial will not begin until after the abomination of desolation occurs.

The pre-trib rapture is based entirely on assumptions. Take Rev. 4:1 for example. They claim it takes place before the seven years begin, because the church is not mentioned afterward. Mid-tribbers could have made the same claim, as well as post-tribbers. But there's absolutely nothing in that verse to indicate when it happens.

I'm saying these things in love. I have no desire to argue these points. For whatever it's worth, you can take it or leave it. Like I said earlier, I used to believe those things too. I just thought I'd share a few thoughts with you on this controversial subject.

Cheers

I agree. God will make a way for us to go through these times protected, as He protected those before us. God never removed His people, but made a way for them, bringing honor and glory to God for protecting His own.

[PinkPaws]

I believe in the Rapture. When will it occur? I

[enoob57]

Pretrib due to the Nature of these promises

1 Thess 1:9-10

9 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

NKJV

1 Thess 5:9-10

9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

NKJV

Hello enoob57,

I held the pre-trib view as well, for about 15 years, until I started studying diligently myself. No doubt, it is a confusing topic, and a profound mystery of mysteries. I just wanted to point out that the two passages you quoted above are based on mere assumptions. Pre-trib scholars believe and teach that the entire seven years are God's wrath, which is not even close to the truth. Rev. 6 disproves that. God will not begin to pour out His wrath until all of the martyrs have been killed first. There is a huge difference between tribulation and God's wrath.

Rev 3:10-12

10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

NKJV

Love Steven

Another assumption that places no timing whatsoever. The hour of trial will not begin until after the abomination of desolation occurs.

The pre-trib rapture is based entirely on assumptions. Take Rev. 4:1 for example. They claim it takes place before the seven years begin, because the church is not mentioned afterward. Mid-tribbers could have made the same claim, as well as post-tribbers. But there's absolutely nothing in that verse to indicate when it happens.

I'm saying these things in love. I have no desire to argue these points. For whatever it's worth, you can take it or leave it. Like I said earlier, I used to believe those things too. I just thought I'd share a few thoughts with you on this controversial subject.

Cheers

Thank you for your kindness in sharing ... I praise God for the truth of His Word

No One Knows the Day or Hour

Matt 24:36-44

(Mark 13:32-37; Luke 17:26,27,34,35; 21:34-36)

36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

NKJV

This is a good thing is it not? With every turn of the page More Truth becomes reality unto etenity... Love Steven

If I were to defend my view it would be The Holy Spirit and I am by His Promise inseparable and I see Him as the restrainer being taken out so that the anti-christ might come!!

[rollinTHUNDER]

Pretrib due to the Nature of these promises

1 Thess 1:9-10

9 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

NKJV

1 Thess 5:9-10

9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

NKJV

Hello enoob57,

I held the pre-trib view as well, for about 15 years, until I started studying diligently myself. No doubt, it is a confusing topic, and a profound mystery of mysteries. I just wanted to point out that the two passages you quoted above are based on mere assumptions. Pre-trib scholars believe and teach that the entire seven years are God's wrath, which is not even close to the truth. Rev. 6 disproves that. God will not begin to pour out His wrath until all of the martyrs have been killed first. There is a huge difference between tribulation and God's wrath.

Rev 3:10-12

10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

NKJV

Love Steven

Another assumption that places no timing whatsoever. The hour of trial will not begin until after the abomination of desolation occurs.

The pre-trib rapture is based entirely on assumptions. Take Rev. 4:1 for example. They claim it takes place before the seven years begin, because the church is not mentioned afterward. Mid-tribbers could have made the same claim, as well as post-tribbers. But there's absolutely nothing in that verse to indicate when it happens.

I'm saying these things in love. I have no desire to argue these points. For whatever it's worth, you can take it or leave it. Like I said earlier, I used to believe those things too. I just thought I'd share a few thoughts with you on this controversial subject.

Cheers

Thank you for your kindness in sharing ... I praise God for the truth of His Word

No One Knows the Day or Hour

Matt 24:36-44

(Mark 13:32-37; Luke 17:26,27,34,35; 21:34-36)

36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

NKJV

This is a good thing is it not? With every turn of the page More Truth becomes reality unto etenity... Love Steven

Indeed! I believe being ready is far more important than the timing, without a doubt.

[nChrist]

Before - Pre-Tribulation

First, I understand the various opinions and have no wish to argue, but I would like to point out some areas for consideration:

1 - Daniel's 70 Weeks was determined against Israel - not the Church Which Is The Body Of Christ. Daniel knew nothing about this Church because it was still a mystery.

2 - One should make a clear distinction between Israel and the Church Which Is The Body Of Christ. The Church did not replace Israel. God made separate Promises to each entity that will be kept perfectly at His Appointed Time.

3 - The Church Which Is The Body Of Christ was formed for escape (Salvation) - not wrath.

4 - The Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ are two separate and distinct events. Christ doesn't come all the way down to the earth for the Rapture, and the Rapture is an entirely Joyous Event. Christ comes all the way down to the earth at His Second Coming, and it will be in great and Holy Wrath.

5 - Those who have been Saved in this Age of Grace have their hearts Sealed with the Holy Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit of God lives in their hearts. This Seal is not breakable by any combination of powers - now consider the mark of the beast and the consequences described during the Tribulation Period. In this Age of Grace, Christians are not required to endure torture or death to maintain their Salvation. In other words, if I say or do something against my will while being tortured - I don't lose my Salvation.

6 - For those who want to take these thoughts further in their studies, consider the Great Restrainer and all of the implications of the Great Restrainer. The Holy Spirit of God is the Great Restrainer in my firm opinion.

There is much more, but it would involve lengthy explanations and materials. So, these are just highlights to consider without any intentions to argue or debate.

[Believer112]

I believe before he comes to power.

Luke 21

The Coming of the Son of Man

²⁵ "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; ²⁶ men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. ²⁷ Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. ²⁸ Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

Jesus said to look up when these things begin to happen. So I'm gonna start looking up.

In the Gospels "cloud" is mentioned several times. Luke 9:34-35, 21:27 to mention a couple. Could it be that we are confusing coming in the clouds with His second coming? Because in Revelation 19:11 there is no mention of a cloud. God has come in a cloud in several places in the bible.

The Importance of Watching

³⁴ "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. ³⁵ For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. ³⁶ Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

How is that day going to come upon us unexpectedly of we are going thru the tribulations? Scriptures give us a timeline of Jesus return. So we'll pretty much know after the antichrist comes on the scene we have seven years of hell.

Who is worthy to escape?

Revelation 3:10 (New International Version, ©2011)

10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

Who will be kept from the hour of trials?

[MorningGlory]

I believe in the Rapture. When will it occur? I've always thought it will happen before the Antichrist is revealed because that would mean the beginning of true terror on the earth. The Lord has always kept His own safe from destruction. That being said, I also know that many have sound opinions on the Rapture occurring after the Antichrist is on the scene. Regardless of which side of the time line we're on, we know one thing for sure. The timing will be perfect because that's the God we serve! He knows exactly what we need, and when we need to be rescued the most, He will be there. What a day that will be!

God bless you.

[other one]

I personally don't think we will be raptured out of the tribulation, however I have developed this way of living my life.

First of all I plan my life as though I will live to a ripe old age of 110, and I try and live my life as though I won't be here tomorrow.

Could be from the rapture or a heart attack, or maybe a cement truck or garbage truck that I don't see coming down the road. There are a lot of ways to leave this world tonight.

I might add though that the Christian brothers and sisters that perished in the first century were not kept from harms way and I don't see why we should be any different.