Will Christians Be Here During the Great Trib? by John Piper

GlidingWings · October 16, 2011

What Must Happen Before the Day of the Lord?

August 30, 1987 | by John Piper | Scripture: 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 | Topic: End Times / Return of Christ

Series: Lo! He Comes With Clouds Descending: Sermons on 2 Thessalonians

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2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming. The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The longer you meditate on the writings of the apostle Paul, the more clearly you see that genuine, deep spiritual experience depends on genuine, deep biblical knowledge. I mean things like faith and love and peace and joy—these precious subjective experiences of the heart—depend on the mind's apprehension of objective biblical truth. From a biblical standpoint, studying and thinking and knowing are never ends in themselves; they always stand in the service of feeling and willing and doing. The mind is the servant of the heart. Knowledge exists for the sake of love. And all theology worth its salt produces doxology.

How Paul Deals with a Crisis of Faith

Last week we saw this principle at work. The church at Thessalonica was suffering. To help the church respond to this suffering in the most profitable way Paul says that it is the sign of God's righteous judgment (1:5). Then to explain and support this he gives three reasons why it is righteous for God to ordain persecution as part of his own judgment:

It is righteous because by this suffering the Christians are being made worthy for the kingdom of God (v. 5)—it aims ultimately not at their harm but at their holiness.

It is righteous because those who are afflicting will become the afflicted at the Lord's second coming (v. 6)—the evil will not always prosper.

It is righteous because the Christians who are being afflicted will be given rest and joy at the coming of the Lord (v. 7)—faith and patience will be vindicated and rewarded in the end.

So you can see how Paul deals with this crisis of faith: in order to supply their heart with more faith and strength and peace and love in the midst of suffering, he teaches them the objective truth about the ways of God. To help them cope in their hearts and bodies with the miseries of suffering, he imparts to their heads the meaning of suffering.

Paul's Practical Aim in 2 Thessalonians 2:1–12

Today we see the same principle at work in 2 Thessalonians 2:1–12. Paul's aim in all this teaching is to solve a practical emotional problem.

Verses 1–2 tell us what the problem is and what Paul is trying to accomplish:

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

So Paul's aim here is, first, that the Thessalonians not be shaken from their senses (v. 2), that they keep their heads, we might say, that they not be thrown off balance or lose their equilibrium. He wants to help them be calm and composed and steady and clear-thinking in all the upheaval around them.

Second, his aim is that they not be "excited" in the sense of being disturbed or alarmed (v. 2). The word is used in Mark 13:7, for example, in the same kind of context: Jesus says, "And when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed; this must take place, but the end is not yet."

So Paul's aim is very practical in this passage: he wants to help Christians experience peace and calm and stability and clarity of mind—Christians who don't get all "shook up" and agitated and anxious and fretful and confused and off-balance when crises come to the world.

Paul Responds by Providing Truth

So his goal is practical. It has to do with the heart and the emotions. But now what is his approach to this goal? How will he minister to this practical need?

Verse 3 gives the answer: "Let no one deceive you in any way." Paul is persuaded that deceit is at the root of mental and emotional disturbances. If we are shaken from our senses and lose our balance and feel alarmed and fretful and begin to act in ways unworthy of our call, it is because deceit has taken root somewhere in our minds.

So what does Paul aim, then, to do for the Thessalonians so that they won't be shaken and alarmed? He aims to teach them a truth tailored for their specific struggle. He studies the kind of deceit that is taking root in their minds, and then he loosens the soil around it and digs it up with the spade of biblical doctrine.

Do we follow the apostle in this? Do we tend the garden of our emotions with the tools of biblical truth? When there is some alien desire or fear, do we give ourselves day and night to searching the Scriptures for that truth that God has inspired for the undeceiving of our hearts? Keep in mind that, unlike all the wisdom of men, the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of root and rock and dislodging even the deepest, unconscious deceits of our minds that yield the alien fruit of fear and desire.

"Let no one deceive you in any way!" Paul says. And then come ten verses of teaching designed to dislodge the deceit from the minds of the Thessalonians and restore the stability and calmness of their faith.

The Deceit Taking Root at Thessalonica

Before we look at this teaching, we need to find out what the deceit was that was beginning to root itself in the minds of the Thessalonians. Verse 2 tells us fairly plainly. It says that they were starting to believe that the day of the Lord had already come: "Don't be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come."

Evidently they think that the second coming of the Lord is so near that it is as good as present. Paul responds, It doesn't matter where this thought came from—a forged letter, a spoken sermon, a supernatural prophecy—it is wrong. The day of the Lord—the time of his glorious second coming—has not come.

Then he gives two arguments in verse 3 which he unfolds in verses 4–12. First, we know the day of the Lord hasn't come because the rebellion, or the apostasy, must come first. And second, the man of lawlessness has to be revealed before the day of the Lord arrives: "For that day will not come, unless the rebellion [or: apostasy] comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed" (verse 3).

Then in verses 4–9 Paul describes the coming of the man of lawlessness and in verses 9–12 he describes the climax of the great apostasy.

The Pre-Tribulational View of the Second Coming

One of the questions that I want to deal with tonight is where the rapture fits in here. There is a large wing of the evangelical church today that believes the second coming of Christ is going to happen in two stages. First, Christ will come for the church; they will rise to meet him in the air, return with him to heaven for a period of seven years, and then after the great tribulation is over, return to the earth in judgment. This view of the second coming is called the "pre-tribulational" view because it says that Christ comes for the church before the tribulation.

This view has been popularized by the notes in the Scofield Reference Bible and by many Bible schools and some seminaries. It was the basis of Hal Lindsay's Late Great Planet Earth, and has inspired songs and movies about the sudden disappearance of the Christians out of the world at the time of rapture.

One Argument for the Post-Tribulational View

Tonight I hope to take this issue up in more detail. But for now let me just show you one of several arguments from 2 Thessalonians why I cannot follow this interpretation, as much as I love and respect those who do. Why am I a post-tribulationist, that is, why do I look forward with great anticipation not to a sudden departure from the world for seven years but to a great gathering to meet the Lord in the air as he comes with his mighty angels in flaming fire to establish his earthly kingdom, giving rest to his people and judgment to his enemies?

What the Thessalonians Were Alarmed About

The saints at Thessalonica were shaken and alarmed thinking that the day of the Lord is at hand. Now for the pre-tribulationist the "Day of the Lord" is the second half of the second coming after the tribulation. It is described in verse 8: "And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming."

This is the day of the Lord—not the quiet rapture when the saints are snatched away, but the glorious and overwhelming attack from heaven against the man of lawlessness and all evil.

Now the question arises: If the Thessalonians were overly excited and shaken, thinking that the day of the Lord had come, why didn't Paul simply say, "You know it hasn't come because you are still here and I'm still here and the rapture hasn't happened yet"? Why did he say in verse 3, "You know the day of the Lord has not come because the apostasy has not come and the man of lawlessness has not been revealed"?

The Revealing of the Man of Lawlessness

All pre-tribulationists believe that the man of lawlessness will be revealed after the rapture, during the great tribulation. In fact, they say that according to verses 6–7 the restrainer, which holds back the appearance of the man of lawlessness, is the Holy Spirit in the church, so that when the church is raptured out of the world, the man of lawlessness will be released. In other words, the church will not be here, they say, when the man of lawlessness is revealed. The Thessalonian Christians will not see the appearance of the man of lawlessness according to pre-tribulational teaching.

Why then would Paul try to convince them that the day of the Lord has not come by pointing out that a man of lawlessness has not been revealed whom they were never to see anyway? If Paul believed in a pre-tribulational rapture, all he had to say was: the day of the Lord can't have come yet because we are all still here. Instead what he does say is exactly what you would expect him to say if he believed in a single post-tribulational coming of the Lord. He says that the day of the Lord can't be here yet because the apostasy and man of lawlessness who appears during the tribulation haven't appeared to us yet.

And then Paul goes on to lay out for them a description of the man of lawlessness in verses 4–9. And the most natural assumption is that he does this because he wants Christians to be able to recognize him when he appears. The point of this passage is not that Christians have gone to heaven before the man of lawlessness appears, but that Christians should recognize him when he comes.

Recognizing the Man of Lawlessness

My own conviction is that I would dishonor the Word of God and do you a great disservice if I did not equip you as best I can from this text to recognize the man of lawlessness should he appear in your life-time.

First, from verse 3, simply notice his name, the "man of lawlessness." We may infer from this that he is an individual person and that he embodies the spirit of rebellion against God's law—lawlessness.

Second, from the end of verse 3, notice that he is a "son of perdition": just as surely as his character is lawless, his destiny is destruction. Perdition clings to his very nature. Let us hear in this an earnest warning to guard ourselves from rebellion against God's law, because it leads to perdition (cf. 1:9)

Third, from verse 4, the man of lawlessness will oppose God and all objects of worship except himself. He will exalt himself, Paul says, and put himself forward as God. And as a means to that end it says he takes his seat in the temple of God, which may mean the church, since Paul calls the church the temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:21)—that is, he may become some kind of world-church leader. Or the temple here may refer to the temple in Jerusalem.

Fourth, from verses 6–7, the man of lawlessness is now being restrained until his appointed time. He is not in control; God is. His time is appointed and will be very short. Who or what the restrainer is no one knows for sure today, but ultimately it is the power of God that sets the times and seasons for the last days (Acts 1:7).

Fifth, from verse 8, soon after he appears "the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming." One word, one puff of air, from the mouth of Jesus and the man of lawlessness will be destroyed. That is meant for our great encouragement. His doom is sure.

Sixth, from verse 9, the man of lawlessness is not Satan, but comes in the energy and power of Satan with supernatural signs and wonders. This is a warning not to make signs and wonders the ground of your faith or the criterion of truth. All these signs and wonders are counterfeit not because they aren't miraculous—they have satanic power—but because they don't point to truth. They lie. They are no more to be trusted than the spirit of prophecy in verse 2 that said the day of the Lord had come.

So Paul's first tool of truth for digging up the roots of deceit in the minds of the Thessalonians is the teaching that before the day of the Lord comes, the man of lawlessness must come first. The Thessalonians should regain their composure: the end is not yet, and when it comes, victory will belong to the Lord. (See Daniel 7:8, 20f.; 8:4, 11f.; 11:31–40 for the OT background for this man of lawlessness.)

How the Apostasy Will Come to a Climax

Then in verses 9–12 Paul describes how the apostasy will come to a climax. Remember, he had said in verse 3 that the day of the Lord will not come until the apostasy comes first. Apostasy means a falling away from the truth by those who once held it.

Paul is probably reaffirming what Jesus taught about the end time when he said in Matthew 24:10–13,

And then many will fall away [skandalisthesontai], and betray one another, and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness is multiplied, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Notice the links here: Paul said in verse 7 that the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, and Jesus said that lawlessness (same word) will be multiplied. Paul said in verse 3 that there will be a great apostasy, and Jesus said that the love of many will grow cold, but that those who endure to the end (i.e., who don't commit apostasy) will be saved. So Paul is right in line with Jesus here.

The apostasy comes to a crushing climax in verses 9–12 with an incredibly heavy force of delusion and deceit. According to verse 10 the signs and wonders of the man of lawlessness deceive those who are perishing. Why? Why are they so vulnerable? Why do many professing Christians leave the truth and follow falsehood?

Knowing the Truth and Loving the Truth

Paul's answer at the end of verse 10 is that they refuse to love the truth (literally: they did not welcome a love for the truth). Notice: it is not merely an issue of knowing or believing in a merely mental sense: it is an issue of loving.

Look at verse 12: " . . . so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." The opposite of believing the truth is delighting in evil.

And this means that saving faith—faith that will endure to the end through the affliction now and through the apostasy to come—is not merely an accepting of truth but a loving of truth. Verse 10: "They perish because they refused to love the truth."

We can be sure that when the man of lawlessness comes, his signs and wonders will be used to support claims that appeal to our natural desires. Therefore the only defense against this appeal will be a deeper desire for God. If Christ is our portion and our treasure, if he satisfies our longings, and if we love the glory of his gospel, then the mystery of lawlessness will not overcome us, and our love will not grow cold and we will endure to the end and be saved. May the Lord grant us all to receive the love of the truth. Amen.

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OldShep · October 16, 2011

For web posting, a link to this document on our website is preferred. Any exceptions to the above must be approved by Desiring God.

ICL Dennis

~candice~ · October 16, 2011

Here is the link: http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/sermons/what-must-happen-before-the-day-of-the-lord

We can be sure that when the man of lawlessness comes, his signs and wonders will be used to support claims that appeal to our natural desires. Therefore the only defense against this appeal will be a deeper desire for God. If Christ is our portion and our treasure, if he satisfies our longings, and if we love the glory of his gospel, then the mystery of lawlessness will not overcome us, and our love will not grow cold and we will endure to the end and be saved. May the Lord grant us all to receive the love of the truth. Amen.

AMEN!

Littlelambseativy · October 16, 2011

I am so glad that we will not be here to witness that day. We will be rejoicing in the presence of our Lord and Saviour Jesus - our Bridegroom. Maranatha!!

goldust59 · October 16, 2011

Here is the link: http://www.desiringg...day-of-the-lord

We can be sure that when the man of lawlessness comes, his signs and wonders will be used to support claims that appeal to our natural desires. Therefore the only defense against this appeal will be a deeper desire for God. If Christ is our portion and our treasure, if he satisfies our longings, and if we love the glory of his gospel, then the mystery of lawlessness will not overcome us, and our love will not grow cold and we will endure to the end and be saved. May the Lord grant us all to receive the love of the truth. Amen.

AMEN!

AMEN!

Eccl12v13 · October 16, 2011

Let's read what God's word tells us, then use that to figure it all out;

1 Thes.4

[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

2 Thes.2

[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Thus far we know for a fact that at the day of the Lords return there will be;

- A shout from the Lord Himself!

- The voice of the archangel!

- The sounding of the trump of God!

- AND the gathering of the saints unto Him!

And Paul tells us these things SHALL not happen until the man of sin is revealed. Let's continue;

[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Now we are given futher information stating that the son of perdition, the man of sin, that Wicked one will be consumed when Jesus returns. Now let's confirm this;

Dan.7

[25] And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

[26] But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Above we are told of the same event; the man of sin will have his dominion taken away and it will be consumed.

Dan.8

[24] And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

[25] And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Here we have the same person being spoken of with Jesus doing the same as Paul tells us in 2Thes.2, here in Dan.8 it tells us that his power was not his own. Let's confirm this in 2 Thes.2

[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

We are also told in Dan.8 he will stand against Jesus and will be broken without hand, just as Paul told us in 2Thes.2;

[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

So what information have we just read from God's word?

- When Jesus returns there will be the gathering of the saints!

- At the same time the man of sin, the son of perdition, will be consumed and broken without hand by the Prince of princes; Jesus Christ!

Now if the Wicked one will be consumed AND the gathering of the saints both happen when Jesus returns, when did the tribulation period occur?

When did the wicked one, the man of sin and son of perdition rule? BEFORE Jesus returns is what the scriptures is telling us! Because when Jesus returns there will be no time for him to rule for he will be, "...consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:" and, "...shall be broken without hand." Let's confirm all of what we just read;

Matt.24

[29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Again we have the gathering of His elect all happening AFTER the tribulation period!

So.....will the saints be here during the Tribulation period? We can only go with what thus saith the Lord!

.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Eccl12v13

Massorite · October 17, 2011

I am so glad that we will not be here to witness that day. We will be rejoicing in the presence of our Lord and Saviour Jesus - our Bridegroom. Maranatha!!

Show some scripture that is proof that we will be out of here before the great tribulation gets here. Here is scripture the proves that we will be here during the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:15- "“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The abomination that Daniel spoke of will be Satan sitting in the new tempe of God and declairing himself to be God. Which means that we will still be here until the antichrist is revealed.

2 Thess. 2:1-4 "1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

And now for the most compelling words othat came out of the mouth of Jesus. Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. How can anyone miss the words "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" To deny what Christ said is the same as denying Christ. Wake up and smell the coffee littlelamb because nobody is going anywhere until the antichrist is revealed and you have made the choice between the mark of the beast and the things of God.

It simply amazes me that so many bible reading, God believing Christians are so willing to believe that which can not be scripturally proven.

There is no proof that the "Restrainer" is the church. In fact the word of God doesn't tell us at all who the "Restrainer" is. So to say that the Restrainer is the church is nothing more then speculation and assumption with no scripture to back up that notion.

truth7t7 · October 20, 2011

Again we have the gathering of His elect all happening AFTER the tribulation period!
So.....will the saints be here during the Tribulation period? We can only go with what thus saith the Lord!

I agree, the believers will be on earth until the "Last Day" of earths history, going the the tribulation, dispensationalism, has several false resurrections of the believer, when in reality this is the resurrection, and gathering at the "Last Day" Matthew 24:29-30 KJV shows Gods judgement and the destruction of the heavens earth at his appearing, perfectly in agreement with 2 Peter 3:10-12 KJV, dispensationalism has broken this truth up by giving a false teaching that there is a "day of Christ", and a "day of the Lord" teaching these are two seperate events, when in reality they are the same.

I smile at the teaching in 2 Thessolonians 2:1-3 KJV and when the conditions must be met prior to the Lords return, "falling away" and "antichrist revealed" the very passage talking to the church states "Let no man deceive you by any means" this warning is being spoken to the believer in Matthew 24:15 KJV also and the very deception is being taught, the passage talking to me, states if I'm alive I will see the antichrist seated, they teach the "falling away" is the rapture, the restrainer is the church, that denies that the beliver will see the "antichrist" big "smile"!

The teachings of dispensationalism, Newton, Darby, and Scofield, being the foundational roots, has a future rebuilt temple and sacrifical system going, and a physical christ returning to take the throne of David, who will this walk on christ be? "antichrist"! Zionism is preparing the world for the coming "antichrist" that will be Jewish/Hebrew in his decent, posing to be the returned messiah to Jews and Jesus to the apostate religious world, deception.

All believers that sleep in Jesus Christ will "first" be resurrected at the "last day" and those alive will be gathered, and "second" the wicked will be resurrected to damnation , this is the same resurrection seen in Matt 24 KJV, Daniel 12:1-2 that will take place after the tribulation, on the "Last Day" prior to Gods wrath.

The very chapter 1 Cor 15 KJV, that leads the teaching of the dispensational rapture, explains simply that time of the Lords coming and changing the believers will be the "Last Day", Vs 23 Christ the "firstfruits" first glorified body received after resurrection, Jesus Christ, then they that are Christs at his coming, "the believers at his coming", "then the end", the last enemy destroyed will be "DEATH", Vs 54 "death is swallowed up in victory" the end of the earth world, and beginning of the spiritual kingdom, "New Jerusalem".

1 Cor 15:23-28 KJV

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The Lords Judgement will have taken place of death, the last enemy, at the believers receiving their glorified bodies, at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, this will be the "Last Day"

1 Cor 15:50-54 KJV

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The Lord will come as a "thief in the night" on the "Last Day" in firey judgement, destroying the heavens, earth, and the wicked!

1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 KJV

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Peter 3:10-12 KJV

10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

The resurrection of believers will be on the "Last Day" as taught by Jesus Christ to his followers!

John 11:23-24 KJV

23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:39-41 KJV

39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 5:29 KJV

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Daniel 12:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The Judgement will have taken place, "death the last enemy", at the the Lords coming and believers receiving their glorified bodies, this will be the "Last Day"

Revelation 20:13-15 KJV

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Truth7t7

Edited October 20, 2011 by truth7t7

Retrobyter · October 31, 2011

Shalom, truth7t7.

Again we have the gathering of His elect all happening AFTER the tribulation period!
So.....will the saints be here during the Tribulation period? We can only go with what thus saith the Lord!

I agree, the believers will be on earth until the "Last Day" of earths history, going the the tribulation, dispensationalism, has several false resurrections of the believer, when in reality this is the resurrection, and gathering at the "Last Day" Matthew 24:29-30 KJV shows Gods judgement and the destruction of the heavens earth at his appearing, perfectly in agreement with 2 Peter 3:10-12 KJV, dispensationalism has broken this truth up by giving a false teaching that there is a "day of Christ", and a "day of the Lord" teaching these are two seperate events, when in reality they are the same.
I smile at the teaching in 2 Thessolonians 2:1-3 KJV and when the conditions must be met prior to the Lords return, "falling away" and "antichrist revealed" the very passage talking to the church states "Let no man deceive you by any means" this warning is being spoken to the believer in Matthew 24:15 KJV also and the very deception is being taught, the passage talking to me, states if I'm alive I will see the antichrist seated, they teach the "falling away" is the rapture, the restrainer is the church, that denies that the beliver will see the "antichrist" big "smile"!
The teachings of dispensationalism, Newton, Darby, and Scofield, being the foundational roots, has a future rebuilt temple and sacrifical system going, and a physical christ returning to take the throne of David, who will this walk on christ be? "antichrist"! Zionism is preparing the world for the coming "antichrist" that will be Jewish/Hebrew in his decent, posing to be the returned messiah to Jews and Jesus to the apostate religious world, deception.

All believers that sleep in Jesus Christ will "first" be resurrected at the "last day" and those alive will be gathered, and "second" the wicked will be resurrected to damnation , this is the same resurrection seen in Matt 24 KJV, Daniel 12:1-2 that will take place after the tribulation, on the "Last Day" prior to Gods wrath.

The very chapter 1 Cor 15 KJV, that leads the teaching of the dispensational rapture, explains simply that time of the Lords coming and changing the believers will be the "Last Day", Vs 23 Christ the "firstfruits" first glorified body received after resurrection, Jesus Christ, then they that are Christs at his coming, "the believers at his coming", "then the end", the last enemy destroyed will be "DEATH", Vs 54 "death is swallowed up in victory" the end of the earth world, and beginning of the spiritual kingdom, "New Jerusalem".

1 Cor 15:23-28 KJV
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The Lords Judgement will have taken place of death, the last enemy, at the believers receiving their glorified bodies, at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, this will be the "Last Day"

1 Cor 15:50-54 KJV
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The Lord will come as a "thief in the night" on the "Last Day" in firey judgement, destroying the heavens, earth, and the wicked!

1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 KJV
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Peter 3:10-12 KJV
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

The resurrection of believers will be on the "Last Day" as taught by Jesus Christ to his followers!

John 11:23-24 KJV
23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:39-41 KJV
39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 5:29 KJV
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Daniel 12:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The Judgement will have taken place, "death the last enemy", at the the Lords coming and believers receiving their glorified bodies, this will be the "Last Day"

Revelation 20:13-15 KJV
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Truth7t7

Sorry, but that position is not right, either. You, too, are ignoring a few key, salient points that Yeshua` and Rav Sha'uwl "Paulos" make:

First, you have ignored the parable that Yeshua` gave in Luke 19:

Luke 19:11-28

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.

17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.

19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.

22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.

25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)

26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.

KJV

His Kingdom comes WITH HIM! It's not here, yet!

Now, consider Matthew 25:

Matt 25:31-46

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

KJV

This passage is NOT said to be a parable at all! It is an account of what will actually happen when Yeshua haMashiach returns! Have you ever noticed that He is always called "the Messiah," "the Christ?" The term is from the Hebrew word "Mashiach," which means "anointed one." There were three (or four, depending on your point of view) positions for which a person was "anointed": He may be anointed as priest, prophet, or king (and a judge through being king). Seldom was Yeshua` EVER referred to as being "King," and most of those were in PROPHECY! To anoint someone was to pour a special oil (Exodus 30:22-33) upon that person's head and RUB it in to the person's hair and scalp. In fact, the term, although said to mean "anoint," literally means to "rub" or to "paint" a person with that oil. It was a process that proved that the person was especially selected by God for that position. Isn't it interesting that He is never said to be reigning now but will be reigning in the future? Matthew 25 will be fulfilled literally when Yeshua` returns at His second Advent.

Psalm 2 has never been fulfilled, yet. I'm going to quote it with punctuation for clarity:

Psalm 2:1-12

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: <the Lord hath said unto me, 'Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.'>

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."

KJV

There are a series of nested quotes within verses 6 through 12: God the Father is speaking in verses 6 and 7a. Then in verse 7b, Yeshua`, God's Son is doing the talking; however, part of the Son's speech includes yet another nested quote of God the Father within the decree from 7c through verse 9. The rest of the passage, from verses 10 through 12, are God the Father speaking at the same level as in verses 6 and 7a. So, God the Father - YHVH - is telling this counsel of kings (a UN meeting) to obey His Son or else! This passage has NEVER been fulfilled, yet, but as all other Messianic prophecies that were fulfilled during Yeshua`s first Advent literally, so this passage will be fulfilled literally, as well! Yeshua` will yet literally reign over the Gentile nations of the earth with a "rod (sceptre) of iron."

This is the Kingdom that you misinterpreted in 1 Corinthians 15 and misrepresented in Revelation 20. Make no mistake, either. He doesn't "rule and reign for a thousand years" (as some have claimed). The Millennium is just the BEGINNING 1000 years of His reign (which also happens to be the last 1000 years of this present earth and sky)! Here's the REAL understanding of these passages:

1 Cor. 15:12-28

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

KJV

This context of this chapter (and we could have quoted the whole chapter, by the way) is the RESURRECTION! Rav Sha'uwl "Paulos" first argues for the truth of the resurrection, and then he lists when they will occur: 0) the firstfruits - Yeshua` the Messiah, 1) they who are the Messiah's AT HIS SECOND COMING, and then 2) at the End (of the Age), which is identified by a) the Messiah delivering up the Kingdom to God the Father, when b) he has put all things under Himself. The key is verse 25: "For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet." Thus, besides the Firstfruits of the Messiah Himself, there are two resurrections: 1) the resurrection of the justified at His Second Advent, and 2) the general resurrection after the first 1000 years of His reign at the End of the Age prior to the Great White Throne Judgment, the sentencing to the Lake of Fire and Sulphur, and the re-Creation of the earth and sky into the New Earth and the New Sky of Revelation 21:1.

Revelation 20:1-21:1

20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

KJV

The last sentence of verse 5 refers to verses 4 and 6, not to the first part of verse 5. Thus, the first resurrection occurs BEFORE the 1000 years, but the second resurrection occurs AFTER the 1000 years in verse 13. The destruction of Death is found in verse 14; this parallels 1 Corinthians 15:26 as the last enemy that is subdued by the Messiah who will be reigning during those 1000 years. Death is not defeated at the first resurrection when we receive our new bodies, for death will still be present during the 1000 years (although not for us)! OT prophecies tell us that, particularly Isaiah 60-66, but the Messiah also uses death to His advantage during the Millennium, as seen in Psalm 2:12 above!

Contrary to popular opinion, the Scriptures tell us that the Millennium, the first 1000 years of the Messiah's reign as Isra'el's King and then as King of Kings - or World Emperor - as more and more peoples choose to be tributary to the Messiah's Kingdom, will NOT be a "time of world peace!" There will only be peace WITHIN His Kingdom, until such time as His Kingdom fills the earth. He will FORCE other nations of the earth to "tow the line!"

It's not right to just cram everything into a single event - the Second Coming - and say it's all over! There's more time yet to occur in this second earth and second sky before the third earth and third sky begin (2 Cor. 12:1-4; 2 Peter 3:3-13).

Now, WILL Christians be here during the Great Tribulation? Sure we will! We have no guarantee that we will be yanked out of this world ahead of time! To the contrary, the purpose of the Rapture (harpazo) is NOT to avoid God's Wrath but is to collect us quickly as an army for Yeshua`s descent into the Middle East at His Second Coming. It's a form of "mass transit system!" Furthermore, while we receive our new bodies "in the twinkling of an eye," the actual collection process will take some time!

In the Messiah's love,

Roy

Edited October 31, 2011 by Retrobyter

ENOCH2010 · November 3, 2011

Shalom, truth7t7.

Again we have the gathering of His elect all happening AFTER the tribulation period!
So.....will the saints be here during the Tribulation period? We can only go with what thus saith the Lord!

I agree, the believers will be on earth until the "Last Day" of earths history, going the the tribulation, dispensationalism, has several false resurrections of the believer, when in reality this is the resurrection, and gathering at the "Last Day" Matthew 24:29-30 KJV shows Gods judgement and the destruction of the heavens earth at his appearing, perfectly in agreement with 2 Peter 3:10-12 KJV, dispensationalism has broken this truth up by giving a false teaching that there is a "day of Christ", and a "day of the Lord" teaching these are two seperate events, when in reality they are the same.
I smile at the teaching in 2 Thessolonians 2:1-3 KJV and when the conditions must be met prior to the Lords return, "falling away" and "antichrist revealed" the very passage talking to the church states "Let no man deceive you by any means" this warning is being spoken to the believer in Matthew 24:15 KJV also and the very deception is being taught, the passage talking to me, states if I'm alive I will see the antichrist seated, they teach the "falling away" is the rapture, the restrainer is the church, that denies that the beliver will see the "antichrist" big "smile"!
The teachings of dispensationalism, Newton, Darby, and Scofield, being the foundational roots, has a future rebuilt temple and sacrifical system going, and a physical christ returning to take the throne of David, who will this walk on christ be? "antichrist"! Zionism is preparing the world for the coming "antichrist" that will be Jewish/Hebrew in his decent, posing to be the returned messiah to Jews and Jesus to the apostate religious world, deception.

All believers that sleep in Jesus Christ will "first" be resurrected at the "last day" and those alive will be gathered, and "second" the wicked will be resurrected to damnation , this is the same resurrection seen in Matt 24 KJV, Daniel 12:1-2 that will take place after the tribulation, on the "Last Day" prior to Gods wrath.

The very chapter 1 Cor 15 KJV, that leads the teaching of the dispensational rapture, explains simply that time of the Lords coming and changing the believers will be the "Last Day", Vs 23 Christ the "firstfruits" first glorified body received after resurrection, Jesus Christ, then they that are Christs at his coming, "the believers at his coming", "then the end", the last enemy destroyed will be "DEATH", Vs 54 "death is swallowed up in victory" the end of the earth world, and beginning of the spiritual kingdom, "New Jerusalem".

1 Cor 15:23-28 KJV
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The Lords Judgement will have taken place of death, the last enemy, at the believers receiving their glorified bodies, at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, this will be the "Last Day"

1 Cor 15:50-54 KJV
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The Lord will come as a "thief in the night" on the "Last Day" in firey judgement, destroying the heavens, earth, and the wicked!

1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 KJV
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Peter 3:10-12 KJV
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

The resurrection of believers will be on the "Last Day" as taught by Jesus Christ to his followers!

John 11:23-24 KJV
23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:39-41 KJV
39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 5:29 KJV
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Daniel 12:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The Judgement will have taken place, "death the last enemy", at the the Lords coming and believers receiving their glorified bodies, this will be the "Last Day"

Revelation 20:13-15 KJV
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Truth7t7

Sorry, but that position is not right, either. You, too, are ignoring a few key, salient points that Yeshua` and Rav Sha'uwl "Paulos" make:

First, you have ignored the parable that Yeshua` gave in Luke 19:

Luke 19:11-28
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
KJV

His Kingdom comes WITH HIM! It's not here, yet!

Now, consider Matthew 25:

Matt 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
KJV

This passage is NOT said to be a parable at all! It is an account of what will actually happen when Yeshua haMashiach returns! Have you ever noticed that He is always called "the Messiah," "the Christ?" The term is from the Hebrew word "Mashiach," which means "anointed one." There were three (or four, depending on your point of view) positions for which a person was "anointed": He may be anointed as priest, prophet, or king (and a judge through being king). Seldom was Yeshua` EVER referred to as being "King," and most of those were in PROPHECY! To anoint someone was to pour a special oil (Exodus 30:22-33) upon that person's head and RUB it in to the person's hair and scalp. In fact, the term, although said to mean "anoint," literally means to "rub" or to "paint" a person with that oil. It was a process that proved that the person was especially selected by God for that position. Isn't it interesting that He is never said to be reigning now but will be reigning in the future? Matthew 25 will be fulfilled literally when Yeshua` returns at His second Advent.

Psalm 2 has never been fulfilled, yet. I'm going to quote it with punctuation for clarity:

Psalm 2:1-12
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: <the Lord hath said unto me, 'Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.'>
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."
KJV

There are a series of nested quotes within verses 6 through 12: God the Father is speaking in verses 6 and 7a. Then in verse 7b, Yeshua`, God's Son is doing the talking; however, part of the Son's speech includes yet another nested quote of God the Father within the decree from 7c through verse 9. The rest of the passage, from verses 10 through 12, are God the Father speaking at the same level as in verses 6 and 7a. So, God the Father - YHVH - is telling this counsel of kings (a UN meeting) to obey His Son or else! This passage has NEVER been fulfilled, yet, but as all other Messianic prophecies that were fulfilled during Yeshua`s first Advent literally, so this passage will be fulfilled literally, as well! Yeshua` will yet literally reign over the Gentile nations of the earth with a "rod (sceptre) of iron."

This is the Kingdom that you misinterpreted in 1 Corinthians 15 and misrepresented in Revelation 20. Make no mistake, either. He doesn't "rule and reign for a thousand years" (as some have claimed). The Millennium is just the BEGINNING 1000 years of His reign (which also happens to be the last 1000 years of this present earth and sky)! Here's the REAL understanding of these passages:

1 Cor. 15:12-28
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

This context of this chapter (and we could have quoted the whole chapter, by the way) is the RESURRECTION! Rav Sha'uwl "Paulos" first argues for the truth of the resurrection, and then he lists when they will occur: 0) the firstfruits - Yeshua` the Messiah, 1) they who are the Messiah's AT HIS SECOND COMING, and then 2) at the End (of the Age), which is identified by a) the Messiah delivering up the Kingdom to God the Father, when b) he has put all things under Himself. The key is verse 25: "For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet." Thus, besides the Firstfruits of the Messiah Himself, there are two resurrections: 1) the resurrection of the justified at His Second Advent, and 2) the general resurrection after the first 1000 years of His reign at the End of the Age prior to the Great White Throne Judgment, the sentencing to the Lake of Fire and Sulphur, and the re-Creation of the earth and sky into the New Earth and the New Sky of Revelation 21:1.

Revelation 20:1-21:1
20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
KJV

The last sentence of verse 5 refers to verses 4 and 6, not to the first part of verse 5. Thus, the first resurrection occurs BEFORE the 1000 years, but the second resurrection occurs AFTER the 1000 years in verse 13. The destruction of Death is found in verse 14; this parallels 1 Corinthians 15:26 as the last enemy that is subdued by the Messiah who will be reigning during those 1000 years. Death is not defeated at the first resurrection when we receive our new bodies, for death will still be present during the 1000 years (although not for us)! OT prophecies tell us that, particularly Isaiah 60-66, but the Messiah also uses death to His advantage during the Millennium, as seen in Psalm 2:12 above!

Contrary to popular opinion, the Scriptures tell us that the Millennium, the first 1000 years of the Messiah's reign as Isra'el's King and then as King of Kings - or World Emperor - as more and more peoples choose to be tributary to the Messiah's Kingdom, will NOT be a "time of world peace!" There will only be peace WITHIN His Kingdom, until such time as His Kingdom fills the earth. He will FORCE other nations of the earth to "tow the line!"

It's not right to just cram everything into a single event - the Second Coming - and say it's all over! There's more time yet to occur in this second earth and second sky before the third earth and third sky begin (2 Cor. 12:1-4; 2 Peter 3:3-13).

Now, WILL Christians be here during the Great Tribulation? Sure we will! We have no guarantee that we will be yanked out of this world ahead of time! To the contrary, the purpose of the Rapture (harpazo) is NOT to avoid God's Wrath but is to collect us quickly as an army for Yeshua`s descent into the Middle East at His Second Coming. It's a form of "mass transit system!" Furthermore, while we receive our new bodies "in the twinkling of an eye," the actual collection process will take some time!

In the Messiah's love,
Roy

Thanks for the post on your blog Roy.

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Will Christians Be Here During the Great Trib? by John Piper

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