What is sinful to laugh at? Can what you laugh at condemn you?

[appy]

someone else's misfortune. There are folks who take glee in the mishaps and troubles of others

[Gerioke]

Most jokes involve a victim. I doubt there are very many christian comedians

[Steve_S]

What is sinful to laugh at?

Laughing without love is sin regardless of the object being laughed about. God is love. There is a time to laugh.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

I'm a little bit confused with regards to this post and I wonder if you'd be willing to provide some scriptural basis for it.

Can you elaborate upon what you find confusing?

Gary

I'm confused about where you get the phrase "laughing without love" in the scripture.

Hmm, not much elaboration but let me take a stab at it then. See if I can make it more concise as to what I am saying.

1Cr 13:4-8 Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth:...

1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Humor must be tempered by love else it is ungodly and sinful.

Gary

I find this to be a serious stretch to try to back up something not found in scripture. Sin is the transgression of the law, and I don't believe all humor must be tempered in love for it to be ungodly or sinful. There would have to be something far more specific, dealing directly with the topic of humor to convince me.

I agree. There are innocuous, non-sinful things that can be funny.

[gdemoss]

Hmm, not much elaboration but let me take a stab at it then. See if I can make it more concise as to what I am saying.

1Cr 13:4-8 Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth:...

1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Humor must be tempered by love else it is ungodly and sinful.

Gary

I find this to be a serious stretch to try to back up something not found in scripture. Sin is the transgression of the law, and I don't believe all humor must be tempered in love for it to be ungodly or sinful. There would have to be something far more specific, dealing directly with the topic of humor to convince me.

The view that sin is 'only' transgression of the law is error. I hope this is not your position. Although we can know sin by the law, we understand sin by the law of Christ which is fulfilled when we bear one anothers burdens. This would include tempering our humor by love.

I agree. There are innocuous, non-sinful things that can be funny.

Amen. There is a time to laugh as said God through Solomon. We need not throw out all humor just because of that which is sinful in nature with respect to other things which are not. Thanks for the questions and the replies as well.

Gary

[gdemoss]

Hmm, not much elaboration but let me take a stab at it then. See if I can make it more concise as to what I am saying.

1Cr 13:4-8 Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth:...

1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Humor must be tempered by love else it is ungodly and sinful.

Gary

I find this to be a serious stretch to try to back up something not found in scripture. Sin is the transgression of the law, and I don't believe all humor must be tempered in love for it to be ungodly or sinful. There would have to be something far more specific, dealing directly with the topic of humor to convince me.

The view that sin is 'only' transgression of the law is error. I hope this is not your position. Although we can know sin by the law, we understand sin by the law of Christ which is fulfilled when we bear one anothers burdens. This would include tempering our humor by love.

I agree. There are innocuous, non-sinful things that can be funny.

Amen. There is a time to laugh as said God through Solomon. We need not throw out all humor just because of that which is sinful in nature with respect to other things which are not. Thanks for the questions and the replies as well.

Gary

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Yes, brother Butero, I understand why you think what you do. I am working to help you see the error in the thought of sin 'only' being the transgression of the law. Lets begin with your verse.

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever 3956 committeth 4160 sin 266 transgresseth 458 0 4160 also 2532 the law 458: for 2532 sin 266 is 2076 the transgression of the law 458.

Notice that 'transgression of the law' is all translated from one single Greek word.

The translations of this single word in scripture elsewhere:

AV — iniquity 12, unrighteousness 1, transgress the law + 4160 1, transgression of the law 1

The translators of the text that you and I love so much thought it necessary to translate the word in a way that would glorify the context instead of using 'iniquity' and I agree with them that it was necessary. But to conclude that it means that sin is 'only' a transgression of the law is error.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Sin was in the world even though there was no law. Therefore law does not define sin as it would still have been sin if Adam chose to kill his wife before she ate the fruit. Murder was murder before the law was established.

Sin is the transgression of the law. But it is not only the transgression of the law for there are sins for which no law has ever been written in a way that clearly defines it as sin. All offenses ever committed fall under the two greatest commandments in the law, this we know and I would never argue against it. But the law established that was built upon those two were given to clearly define actions that were sin for the people governed by the laws given. And since there was law there was by necessity a need for judges and interpreters of the law. For this cause, there is no law that could be written that a man could be justified by as there is no law that could be written that could make a man perfect but Jesus walking the earth changed all that. The Word or Law became flesh and walked among us. He showed the foolishness of those in his day who thought they understood the law, the lawyers, scribes and Pharisees and such.

So yes, while I understand your sentiment and agree, I must show that sin is sin even before there was ever law to govern it. Law doesn't create sin (Paul's argument) but rather legislates and regulates the sinner placing him in bondage.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[Openly Curious]

Psalms 2:4 - He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derison.

Psalms 52:5-6 - God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwellingplace, and root thee out of the land of the living. Shelah...The righteous also shall see, and fear, and shall laugh at them.

Psalms 126: 1-2 - When the Lord turned again the captivity of Zion, we were like them that dream....Then was our mouth filled with laughter, and our tongue with singing: "then said they amoung the heathen". The Lord hath done great things for them.....The Lord hath done great things for us; whereof we are glad.

Proverbs 1:26 - I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

I think we have to serve the Lord with fear, and we should rejoice but we must do so with trembling and not mock ( make fun of) and scorn (make light of, make fun of, belittle, or attack) others.

[gdemoss]

The royal law existed before it was given to mankind. In other words, murder was wrong in the sight of God before the 10 Commandments were given to Moses. It was therefore sin in his Kingdom. At the same time, before the knowledge of sin was given to man, sins weren't imputed to mankind. The only transgression of God's laws that was revealed to Adam and Eve was not to eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but in God's Kingdom, man wasn't to go around naked. Even so, that was not imputed to Adam and Eve until the knowledge of the truth was revealed. In the beginning was the Word was with God and the Word was God. The laws of God always existed, and sin was always the transgression of the law, but as you said, it was not imputed when it was not known to mankind.

Lets go back to Adam and Eve. How did they know being naked was wrong? There were no commandments on tables of stone, but they knew. Their conscience told them it was wrong. Did Cain know murder was wrong? I believe he did. As such, I do believe that sin is the transgression of God's laws, but I acknowledge your point that before the law was given, through knowledge obtained by eating the forbidden fruit, those sins were not imputed. I don't need tables of stone to know right from wrong. God's laws are in the heart of true believers.

How did they know being naked was wrong?

This is an excellent question brother! And it has an equally excellent answer. They didn't.

Pause....think about what I just said. They did not know that it was wrong to be naked.

They had the eyes of their understanding opened and were merely forced with making moral judgments. There is a huge difference between ability to make moral judgments and understanding the correct judgment. If they understood that being naked was wrong (if it truly is which is another discussion all together) they should also have understood that fig leaves would be adding more sin to their sin by being inadequate to cover their sin. But they did not. You see, just because we are forced to make moral judgments because the eyes of our understanding were opened doesn't mean we understand truth of right and wrong by Gods holy standard without it being shown unto us as it was in the person of Jesus Christ. The truth is that without the spirit of God guiding us into all truth we cannot know it and are forced to rely upon our own understanding of right and wrong through our reasoning faculties which are limited in their capacity to conclude right judgments as was seen in the case of Adam and Eve.

It is the problem of sin that Jesus came to take away from mankind and destroy the works of the devil. The eyes of our understanding had been opened but after that they needed to be enlightened. The first makes us like God in ability to judge the latter makes us into his image. Oh for the day we have perfect judgment in all things!

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[Openly Curious]

Hmm, not much elaboration but let me take a stab at it then. See if I can make it more concise as to what I am saying.

1Cr 13:4-8 Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth:...

1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Humor must be tempered by love else it is ungodly and sinful.

Gary

I find this to be a serious stretch to try to back up something not found in scripture. Sin is the transgression of the law, and I don't believe all humor must be tempered in love for it to be ungodly or sinful. There would have to be something far more specific, dealing directly with the topic of humor to convince me.

The view that sin is 'only' transgression of the law is error. I hope this is not your position. Although we can know sin by the law, we understand sin by the law of Christ which is fulfilled when we bear one anothers burdens. This would include tempering our humor by love.

I agree. There are innocuous, non-sinful things that can be funny.

Amen. There is a time to laugh as said God through Solomon. We need not throw out all humor just because of that which is sinful in nature with respect to other things which are not. Thanks for the questions and the replies as well.

Gary

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Yes, brother Butero, I understand why you think what you do. I am working to help you see the error in the thought of sin 'only' being the transgression of the law. Lets begin with your verse.

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever 3956 committeth 4160 sin 266 transgresseth 458 0 4160 also 2532 the law 458: for 2532 sin 266 is 2076 the transgression of the law 458.

Notice that 'transgression of the law' is all translated from one single Greek word.

The translations of this single word in scripture elsewhere:

AV — iniquity 12, unrighteousness 1, transgress the law + 4160 1, transgression of the law 1

The translators of the text that you and I love so much thought it necessary to translate the word in a way that would glorify the context instead of using 'iniquity' and I agree with them that it was necessary. But to conclude that it means that sin is 'only' a transgression of the law is error.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Sin was in the world even though there was no law. Therefore law does not define sin as it would still have been sin if Adam chose to kill his wife before she ate the fruit. Murder was murder before the law was established.

Sin is the transgression of the law. But it is not only the transgression of the law for there are sins for which no law has ever been written in a way that clearly defines it as sin. All offenses ever committed fall under the two greatest commandments in the law, this we know and I would never argue against it. But the law established that was built upon those two were given to clearly define actions that were sin for the people governed by the laws given. And since there was law there was by necessity a need for judges and interpreters of the law. For this cause, there is no law that could be written that a man could be justified by as there is no law that could be written that could make a man perfect but Jesus walking the earth changed all that. The Word or Law became flesh and walked among us. He showed the foolishness of those in his day who thought they understood the law, the lawyers, scribes and Pharisees and such.

So yes, while I understand your sentiment and agree, I must show that sin is sin even before there was ever law to govern it. Law doesn't create sin (Paul's argument) but rather legislates and regulates the sinner placing him in bondage.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

1 John 5:17 - ALL "unrighteousness" (wrongdoing) IS SIN.

I think this is what Butero is getting at. Those that are "righteous" (doing what is right) are not under the law because they are doing the things that are right, in so doing they

are not trespassing or transgressing against God. But those who are "unrighteous" (doing the things that are wrong) are under the law because they are still trespassing and transgressing against God.

We all have to choose between right and wrong when we come to the age of accountability. Which is coming to the knowledge that there is a right and wrong and knowing the differences between the two. The age of accountability is different for each person but they will come a point and a time where they will be held accountable for their sins or wrongdoings.

The ability to choose the right and shun the wrong has not been taken away from us. Just because our past sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus when we confessed and called on the name of the Lord. Doesn't mean we stop discerning between what is right (righteous) to do and what is wrong (unrighteousness) to do. Right and wrong is still ever before us as believers.

[nebula]

Most jokes involve a victim. I doubt there are very many christian comedians

Tim Hawkins does a good job, I think.

[IatePistachiosSigningUp]

I know that humor can be offensive and whatnot, but is there anything that would lead us Biblically into knowing what we should and should not laugh at?

When I read this, September 11th came to my mind. When that event happened, many in the Muslim world were joyous and celebrating. I don't think being joyful at the death of innocent people is something to celebrate. In fact, I don't think the death of anyone (including those who are sinful) is anything to be laughed at. Even the death of Osama Bin Laden should not be laughed at. As Christians, we are called to love and pray for the enemy. God will be the one to bring justice.

Indisputable.