Christmas trees

[Guest]

@ John Robinson,

Thank you John, that day the neighbor's across the street from me and the neighbors next door, and the 2 elderly ladies and my family and i all we're very bless!

Hallelujah~!

[GoldenEagle]

@ Anderseric,

I'm going to tell you a story,so please pay close attention as there will be a moral to the story.

WE have 2 elderly neighbor ladies,both widowed...It was almost Christmas,One of the elderly ladies was sayin that everyones decorations look so pretty, but since she was unable to decorate her place looked like the black hole of calcutta,always.....So a few day's later We were decorating our home Getting ready to Celebrate the Birth Of Our LORD( the biggest birthday Party ever!!) My heart was heavy thinking about her.....as i went thru my decoration's making sure that the lights worked ect...I began to wonder IF I had enough to share??....sadly the answer was no....As I was speaking with OUR LORD about this and Telling HIM just how upset i was about this.....I was suddenly inspired!!!

I stopped what i was doing and called 2 of my neighbor's and asked them over for coffee....when they arrived, I told them of my delema, and asked if they would like to contribute their extra decorations???,they joyfully said YES!!

So the next day we went to her house loaded down with decorations and just began to decorate.....she came out on her porch to see what we were up to..I wish you could have seen the look on her face!!.....She was overwhelmed with JOY!!..she even went in and baked us some cookies....pretty soon the other nrighbor lady who always just put up a big sign that said "MERRY CHRISTMAS" came out and over to see what we were doing as well...we got the feeling that she would love to have this done for her as well.....what do you know, we had enough to also decorate her place as well.....

and so we did...it was a long and tireing day and yet one of the best days of all of our lives,,,,,

yes it was only light's, garland, and bows...BUT these earthly trappings had brought such joy to these ladies,it let them know that they were loved and not alone.

I believe with all my heart that OUR LORD was Honored that day as HE watched HIS children sharing HIS love and all it took were some light's, Garland, bow's ........

So I sit here and smile as I look at my pretty Christmas tree....for you see to me it's not just a tree, it's a symbol of ALL that HE IS.....

some years it has a star on top that symbolizes The the Star that hung over HIS precious Birth Place, the light's are the Brightness and goodness That HE Brings to all of our lives....In Short THE LOVE that HE has for us all that brought HIM into this world in the first place for all of our sakes.....

Anderseric, when your list of "Thou Shalt NOTS" is longer then your arm then you have missed ALL That CHRIST IS!! and have wondered in to the dry , and dusty land of legalism......a very cold lifeless place to be.

Great story thanks for sharing Missplaced.

Christmas reminds us that we can reach out to others with the love of Christ.

God bless you!

In Christ,

GE

[Willa]

Jesus claimed to be the light of the world. So we decorate with lights at Christmas. He also died

on a tree, the cross, so I am reminded that while the tree is now covered with live branches, He

came to die on the pole that now supports them. So to me it signifies both His new life and His

coming death for out sins.

I really don't care what other people ascribe to a Christmas tree, or whether it was pagan (though

our pastor says his research proves it was not). I just know this is what a Christmas tree

means to me. So I refuse to debate the issue. If your conscience does not allow you to use it,

you are not doing so in faith and it is wrong for you. But you should never put this trip on other

people should you choose not to use one. JWs are unenlightened concerning this.

A few things that are pagen are Yule logs and mistletoe. Halloween, even though it was based

on a Christian tradition about all saints day, purgatory is not in the Bible nor is the day of the dead,

the worship of dead saints or praying to them, etc. Pagan superstition. I have to add that the

Easter bunny is pagan no matter how much I like Peter Cottentail; and trying to out do each other

with new dresses, shoes hats and gloves as in the 50s is a worldly temptation. My opinion.

[Meta_Agape]

The origin of the "holiday" (holy-day, not really. The seven true holidays are laid out by god himself very plainly in the Holy Bible. To which I might add I rarely ever see Christians observe them, mean while observance of pagan-orginated ones such as Dec. 25th Saturnalia, New Years, Easter (Ishtar), Halloween, etc is quite common.) is from pagan observance of Saturnalia. Anyway the fir tree was acquired into the Saturnalia from the German & Celtic Yule rites.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Matthew 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

"Now read this quote under “Christmas”: “In the Roman world the Saturnalia (December 17) was a time of merrymaking and exchanging of gifts. December 25 was also regarded as the birth date of the Iranian mystery god Mithra, the Sun of Righteousness. On the Roman New Year (January 1), houses were decorated with greenery and lights, and gifts were given to children and the poor. To these observances were added the German and Celtic Yule rites when the Teutonic tribes penetrated into Gaul, Britain, and central Europe. Food and good fellowship, the Yule log and Yule cakes, greenery and fir trees, gifts and greetings all commemorated different aspects of this festive season. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter festival, both pagan and Christian” (Encyclopedia Britannica, 15th Edit. Vol. II, p. 903)." From: The true origin of "Christmas" http://rcg.org/books/ttooc.html

Christianity definitely did not always participate in this supposed "holiday". Where it originated from is simple. It goes back to ancient Rome and when Emperor Constantine wanted to gain popularity amongst the Christians and convert Pagans. This era lead to such things as all the heterodoxy that sprang out of the Council of Nicea & the creation of the Catholic Institution as well as the blurring the lines between Pagan's & Christian's in an attempt to merge the two together. Thus establishing more unified control over the religions for the Roman Empire.

Personally I don't have any idea why any Christian who was thoroughly educated about the matter would participate in it. Why would you adopt a "Holy Day" of Satanic origin and then say it is to "celebrate Christ" on top of it? Sounds a lot like the self-deceptive rationalization the Israelites did all through out the Bible when they would participate in Pagan activities as well. (And do you not think God finds it a mockery to His Biblical Holy-Days...? [Feasts])

The pagans would sacrifice children clothed in veils so the parents would not know which child was whose, to Saturn. (Who traces his origins back to Nimrod but that is another story.) These were the "presents" to Saturn, the "God of Death". (We know who that is dont we?) Then they would hang their heads on the fir trees. (Thus the decorations on the trees)

Jeremiah 10:2-5

“Thus says the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen…For the customs of the people are vain: for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.”

So why do people do it anyways? Simple. Tradition and peer pressure and wanting to fit in basically.

"There is no room in Jeremiah 10 to believe, as some have tried to suggest, that because these trees are powerless of themselves, it is not really forbidden to have a Christmas tree. God condemns the putting up of pagan (Christmas) trees with this plain Bible command!

Deuteronomy 12:2-4 establishes an important context. God plainly says, “You shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which you shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And you shall overthrow their altars…and burn their groves with fire…you shall not do so unto the Lord your God.”

Notice God’s references to “every green tree” and “their groves.” There are at least ten similar verses throughout the Old Testament referring to “green trees” and their association with idolatry. Historians hold that the reference to the term “green” refers to green year-round—evergreen trees!" ~Pastor David Pack

Idolatry is also not limited to literally bowing down and worshipping but also any thing that comes between a person and the Lord and His Word.

Matthew 15:9

9 in vain do they worship me,

teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

God bless.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Meta_Agape

[greekmom]

Welcome to Worthy!

[RustyAngeL]

I don't ever remember worshiping around a tree.

[stmbtshn]

I'm new here, and found this topic very interesting. Here is the thing that I think we forget. It does not matter what any of these traditions mean to me or us as Christians. It only matters what they mean to God. The Word says that the feasts described in Leviticus are the "feasts of the Lord", not Jewish feasts. All 12 tribes were present when God appointed the feasts, not just Judah (Jews). Is it possible that He wants us to keep His appointments? What would happen if someone was told by their boss to be present at an annual meeting in Sept. or Oct. and that person took it upon himself or herself to show up in December? After all, the boss didn't really mean to be there in the Fall, right? Why is it that the secular world celebrates Christmas if it is a Christian holiday. I guess it means something else to them. So to sum up, Christians say that it means the birth of Jesus to them and the secular world says it means $$$$$ to them. If it is not the time of the birth of Christ, I wonder what it would mean to God. Since it is not one of His appointed feasts, I would guess not much.

The Bible does tell us that Jesus was in the temple during the Feast of Dedication (Hanukkah). John 10:22-23

Not trying to legalize anything. I'm just saying.

It is interesting to me that people, not just the Jews, will keep the Feast of Tabernacles during the millenium. So God commanded for this feast to be attended in the beginning, then changed His mind and said you don't have to keep it and change His mind again and commands us to keep it? He is the same yesteday, today, and forever. I think He does care how and what we celebrate in His name. Just ask Israel.

God bless

[John Robinson]

Legalism kills. Because once you start keeping the law, you have to keep every square inch of it, or you're doomed. Just sayin.'

[Meta_Agape]

Legalism would be the way of the Pharisees. We should be clear, in that legalism is trying to *earn* your salvation. Rather, *through* our salvation we naturally manifest the law (as best we can while battling the flesh). Also Jesus said he set an example for us all. You are right he kept the Sabbaths and Feasts. I do not recall any incidence what so ever where he "happened" to be celebrating around a ton of pagan symbols on a pagan holiday and pretended that it was some how connected to one of well, actually, his *own* holidays, which he himself declared...! (or in any way otherwise connected to him or the gospel or anything else similar) To celebrate this mockery of an un-holy-day is blasphemy in my opinion, with all due respect to whomever it may concern.

Think about it, what he endured for us all. To me it does not show much respect to him to adopt a clearly pagan-satanic originated holiday loaded with pagan symbols (the secular proof of as much is easily accessible) and then proclaim it in his name some how. For example to use an analogy: If my best friend in the world Tom is killed by his evil arch enemy Joe, I am not going to celebrate Tom's birthday on a day that I know is not his on Joe's birthday and then surround myself with all of Joe's favorite kinds of things and then invite all of my friends over and pretend like im celebrating Tom's birthday.

(Which is exactly what the origin of so called "Christmas" is from [saturnalia], it is the celebration of the "birth" of the *sun god*. Again this also historically traces back to Nimrod but again that is another story. )

(Virtually every civilization has a fire/sun god. The Egyptians (and sometimes Romans) called him Vulcan. The Greeks named him Kronos, as did the Phoenicians—but they also called him Saturn. The Babylonians called him Tammuz (as Nimrod, resurrected in the person of his son), Molech or Baal (as did the Druids). These were all simply the various names for Nimrod. Nimrod was considered the father of all the Babylonian gods.)

My dear friend Tom would probably be rolling over in his grave if I were to ever do such a thing. It would be incredibly asanine and self-delusional for me to sincerely think otherwise...

God bless.

[Fez]

Legalism would be the way of the Pharisees. We should be clear, in that legalism is trying to *earn* your salvation. Rather, *through* our salvation we naturally manifest the law (as best we can while battling the flesh). Also Jesus said he set an example for us all. You are right he kept the Sabbaths and Feasts. I do not recall any incidence what so ever where he "happened" to be celebrating around a ton of pagan symbols on a pagan holiday and pretended that it was some how connected to one of well, actually, his *own* holidays, which he himself declared...! (or in any way otherwise connected to him or the gospel or anything else similar) To celebrate this mockery of an un-holy-day is blasphemy in my opinion, with all due respect to whomever it may concern.

Think about it, what he endured for us all. To me it does not show much respect to him to adopt a clearly pagan-satanic originated holiday loaded with pagan symbols (the secular proof of as much is easily accessible) and then proclaim it in his name some how. For example to use an analogy: If my best friend in the world Tom is killed by his evil arch enemy Joe, I am not going to celebrate Tom's birthday on a day that I know is not his on Joe's birthday and then surround myself with all of Joe's favorite kinds of things and then invite all of my friends over and pretend like im celebrating Tom's birthday.

(Which is exactly what the origin of so called "Christmas" is from [saturnalia], it is the celebration of the "birth" of the *sun god*. Again this also historically traces back to Nimrod but again that is another story. )

(Virtually every civilization has a fire/sun god. The Egyptians (and sometimes Romans) called him Vulcan. The Greeks named him Kronos, as did the Phoenicians—but they also called him Saturn. The Babylonians called him Tammuz (as Nimrod, resurrected in the person of his son), Molech or Baal (as did the Druids). These were all simply the various names for Nimrod. Nimrod was considered the father of all the Babylonian gods.)

My dear friend Tom would probably be rolling over in his grave if I were to ever do such a thing. It would be incredibly asanine and self-delusional for me to sincerely think otherwise...

God bless.

Think about it, what he endured for us all. To me it does not show much respect to him to adopt a clearly pagan-satanic originated holiday loaded with pagan symbols (the secular proof of as much is easily accessible) and then proclaim it in his name some how.

Ok, so the 24th or the 26th of December would be acceptable? Or the 23rd August? Or any day except the 25th? (providing it was not someone else's birthday, celebration day?)