Salvation

[MorningGlory]

OK, PLEASE! Shorten your quotes to the parts that pertain only to your reply ... don't keep quoting post that makes people have to scroll almost a whole page to read a few lines.

Thank you, OneLight; I was getting eyestrain trying to read through this thread.

[RedMomma]

This is a great topic yet i do think that salvation is a free gift now some think not for you pay with your very life i rather give up earthly life than be without the Lord in the new life wouldnt you?

[saved34]

OSAS claims that no matter what you do after salvation, you still hold a punched ticket so you can live like the devil and still make it into heaven.

This is a blanket and decidedly false statement. You have a "hyper" version of nearly every belief in Christianity, but true OSAS does not say you can live like the devil and still make it into heaven. I think even the majority of OSAS on this board would agree wholeheartedly.

Let's discuss this.. What is the difference between Once Saved Always Saved and Eternal Security in your opinion?

Honestly Onelight, I don't see any real difference. I see OSAS as a man made phrase that is used to describe a biblical truth. Much like we use Trinity or rapture. To me it's simple, I believe once a man or woman gets saved, they are saved for eternity. They cannot be lost, they cannot and will not jump out of the fathers hands as some would like to imagine. I believe Christ bore the full punishment for the believing sinner and he or she cannot come into condemnation. They can be chastised and can be taken to the point of physical death if they insist on a sinful lifestyle, but I think scripture teaches that they themselves will be saved. Though I do not advocate a sinful lifestyle for a Christian (neither does scripture) I do believe the reality is that believers still sin. Not as a lifestyle or practice, or even enjoyment, but we do still fail God, we do still show times of disobedience, and self will, but I do not believe a Christian is lost or needs re-saving every time he or she sins.

Scripture is plain that it is not God's will that we sin, but IF we do sin, we have one who advocates for us. One who has paid for our sins

1Jn 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

1Jn 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

In short, I do not believe there is any real difference in what we call OSAS, or Eternal security. Both are true when one has faith in the living Christ.

[saved34]

This is a great topic yet i do think that salvation is a free gift now some think not for you pay with your very life i rather give up earthly life than be without the Lord in the new life wouldnt you?

Sorry for the double post, but this is so simple, yet so profound and answers both sides of the argument in perfection. It does cost to be a disciple of the Lord, it is painful at times, and it does take hard work and I wouldn't have it any other way. It pains me to the core to even think about offending God or not doing what pleases him. Salvation being free cannot change that. My heart is forever turned towards God and pleasing him. My failures to do so consumes me at times. James says we should howl and weep over our sins, and I think the renewed heart does just that. It will never settle in sin, and will always look to God for strength and forgiveness.

[OneLight]

OSAS claims that no matter what you do after salvation, you still hold a punched ticket so you can live like the devil and still make it into heaven.

This is a blanket and decidedly false statement. You have a "hyper" version of nearly every belief in Christianity, but true OSAS does not say you can live like the devil and still make it into heaven. I think even the majority of OSAS on this board would agree wholeheartedly.

Let's discuss this.. What is the difference between Once Saved Always Saved and Eternal Security in your opinion?

Honestly Onelight, I don't see any real difference. I see OSAS as a man made phrase that is used to describe a biblical truth. Much like we use Trinity or rapture. To me it's simple, I believe once a man or woman gets saved, they are saved for eternity. They cannot be lost, they cannot and will not jump out of the fathers hands as some would like to imagine. I believe Christ bore the full punishment for the believing sinner and he or she cannot come into condemnation. They can be chastised and can be taken to the point of physical death if they insist on a sinful lifestyle, but I think scripture teaches that they themselves will be saved. Though I do not advocate a sinful lifestyle for a Christian (neither does scripture) I do believe the reality is that believers still sin. Not as a lifestyle or practice, or even enjoyment, but we do still fail God, we do still show times of disobedience, and self will, but I do not believe a Christian is lost or needs re-saving every time he or she sins.

Scripture is plain that it is not God's will that we sin, but IF we do sin, we have one who advocates for us. One who has paid for our sins

1Jn 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

1Jn 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

In short, I do not believe there is any real difference in what we call OSAS, or Eternal security. Both are true when one has faith in the living Christ.

I guess this is the reason why there is so much controversy on the subject. There are many who do not believe as you do, and many who do. Through the history of those claim to be OSAS, they claim that they can sin all they want because God has covered all their sin, past, present and future, by the blood of Christ with no repentance or regeneration needed. Those who believe in Eternal Security believe as you say, as long as one follow God, they are secure in Him.

Another issue with what you have posted, to be more specific "They cannot be lost, they cannot and will not jump out of the fathers hands as some would like to imagine." If this is true, why do we read in Revelation 3:1-6 where Jesus Himself states:

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

Jesus was addressing believers who have turned from Him. He warns them that if they do not turn back to Him, He will blot out their name from the Book of Life. This alone tells me that one can decide to change their path and turn from Christ, even when they once followed Him. It also tells us that if we don't repent and return to Him, we will loose out salvation. That goes against everything OSAS claims, so there is a big difference. This is not easy for people to hear, and the reason why they argue against ever being able to loose their salvation. Those who do not want to follow Christ in their lives still want a guarantee that they will be accepted, but this is a lie.

[Guest man]

I guess this is the reason why there is so much controversy on the subject. There are many who do not believe as you do, and many who do. Through the history of those claim to be OSAS, they claim that they can sin all they want because God has covered all their sin, past, present and future, by the blood of Christ with no repentance or regeneration needed. Those who believe in Eternal Security believe as you say, as long as one follow God, they are secure in Him.

Another issue with what you have posted, to be more specific "They cannot be lost, they cannot and will not jump out of the fathers hands as some would like to imagine." If this is true, why do we read in Revelation 3:1-6 where Jesus Himself states:

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

Jesus was addressing believers who have turned from Him. He warns them that if they do not turn back to Him, He will blot out their name from the Book of Life. This alone tells me that one can decide to change their path and turn from Christ, even when they once followed Him. It also tells us that if we don't repent and return to Him, we will loose out salvation. That goes against everything OSAS claims, so there is a big difference. This is not easy for people to hear, and the reason why they argue against ever being able to loose their salvation. Those who do not want to follow Christ in their lives still want a guarantee that they will be accepted, but this is a lie.

It also gives us a very simple truth.

Names that are blotted from the book of life are the names of people who were saved at one time. If they were not, their names would not have been in the book. The Book of Life contains the names of those who put their full trust in God. Nonbelievers don't do that. So for a name to be in the Book of Life, the person belonging to that name is saved. Having ones name removed from the book, means that individual is destined for the Lake of Fire.

Salvation lost.

[His_disciple3]

OSAS claims that no matter what you do after salvation, you still hold a punched ticket so you can live like the devil and still make it into heaven.

This is a blanket and decidedly false statement. You have a "hyper" version of nearly every belief in Christianity, but true OSAS does not say you can live like the devil and still make it into heaven. I think even the majority of OSAS on this board would agree wholeheartedly.

Let's discuss this.. What is the difference between Once Saved Always Saved and Eternal Security in your opinion?

Honestly Onelight, I don't see any real difference. I see OSAS as a man made phrase that is used to describe a biblical truth. Much like we use Trinity or rapture. To me it's simple, I believe once a man or woman gets saved, they are saved for eternity. They cannot be lost, they cannot and will not jump out of the fathers hands as some would like to imagine. I believe Christ bore the full punishment for the believing sinner and he or she cannot come into condemnation. They can be chastised and can be taken to the point of physical death if they insist on a sinful lifestyle, but I think scripture teaches that they themselves will be saved. Though I do not advocate a sinful lifestyle for a Christian (neither does scripture) I do believe the reality is that believers still sin. Not as a lifestyle or practice, or even enjoyment, but we do still fail God, we do still show times of disobedience, and self will, but I do not believe a Christian is lost or needs re-saving every time he or she sins.

Scripture is plain that it is not God's will that we sin, but IF we do sin, we have one who advocates for us. One who has paid for our sins

1Jn 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

1Jn 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

In short, I do not believe there is any real difference in what we call OSAS, or Eternal security. Both are true when one has faith in the living Christ.

I guess this is the reason why there is so much controversy on the subject. There are many who do not believe as you do, and many who do. Through the history of those claim to be OSAS, they claim that they can sin all they want because God has covered all their sin, past, present and future, by the blood of Christ with no repentance or regeneration needed. Those who believe in Eternal Security believe as you say, as long as one follow God, they are secure in Him.

Another issue with what you have posted, to be more specific "They cannot be lost, they cannot and will not jump out of the fathers hands as some would like to imagine." If this is true, why do we read in Revelation 3:1-6 where Jesus Himself states:

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

Jesus was addressing believers who have turned from Him. He warns them that if they do not turn back to Him, He will blot out their name from the Book of Life. This alone tells me that one can decide to change their path and turn from Christ, even when they once followed Him. It also tells us that if we don't repent and return to Him, we will loose out salvation. That goes against everything OSAS claims, so there is a big difference. This is not easy for people to hear, and the reason why they argue against ever being able to loose their salvation. Those who do not want to follow Christ in their lives still want a guarantee that they will be accepted, but this is a lie.

first of all i totlaly disagree with your differences between osas and enternal security, if you can in any how lose your salvation then that is not eternal security. also those who over come in your verses from Rev, has been defined in scriptures

as those that believe in Jesus :

1Jn 5:1-5 KJV

(1)

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

(2)

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

(3)

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

(4)

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

(5)

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

we love Him because He first loved us, we believe: we are born of God then we keep His commandments , because we are saved, not to get saved, for we have already overcome the world by our faith in Jesus, if we are born of God then we have a Heavenly Father, who chastens His Children not cast them out when they do wrong, not that He can put up with our shortcomings, but that the price has already been paid by the Begotten Son. and His Mercy endures forever. you can not overcome sin without that righteous seed being planted in you. your righteousness is as filthly rags, and unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes you will in no wise enter in, now is there any one in the forum can stand and say that their righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes, unless they have taken on the righteousness of the righteous One, this is the righteousness that we need, not that righteousness of our own least we boast!! now if you can live in sin and not feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit, then you could be without chastisement, and scriptures are clear if this is the case, those without chastisements are Bastards and have no Father!!!

[OneLight]

OSAS claims that no matter what you do after salvation, you still hold a punched ticket so you can live like the devil and still make it into heaven.

This is a blanket and decidedly false statement. You have a "hyper" version of nearly every belief in Christianity, but true OSAS does not say you can live like the devil and still make it into heaven. I think even the majority of OSAS on this board would agree wholeheartedly.

Let's discuss this.. What is the difference between Once Saved Always Saved and Eternal Security in your opinion?

Honestly Onelight, I don't see any real difference. I see OSAS as a man made phrase that is used to describe a biblical truth. Much like we use Trinity or rapture. To me it's simple, I believe once a man or woman gets saved, they are saved for eternity. They cannot be lost, they cannot and will not jump out of the fathers hands as some would like to imagine. I believe Christ bore the full punishment for the believing sinner and he or she cannot come into condemnation. They can be chastised and can be taken to the point of physical death if they insist on a sinful lifestyle, but I think scripture teaches that they themselves will be saved. Though I do not advocate a sinful lifestyle for a Christian (neither does scripture) I do believe the reality is that believers still sin. Not as a lifestyle or practice, or even enjoyment, but we do still fail God, we do still show times of disobedience, and self will, but I do not believe a Christian is lost or needs re-saving every time he or she sins.

Scripture is plain that it is not God's will that we sin, but IF we do sin, we have one who advocates for us. One who has paid for our sins

1Jn 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

1Jn 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

In short, I do not believe there is any real difference in what we call OSAS, or Eternal security. Both are true when one has faith in the living Christ.

I guess this is the reason why there is so much controversy on the subject. There are many who do not believe as you do, and many who do. Through the history of those claim to be OSAS, they claim that they can sin all they want because God has covered all their sin, past, present and future, by the blood of Christ with no repentance or regeneration needed. Those who believe in Eternal Security believe as you say, as long as one follow God, they are secure in Him.

Another issue with what you have posted, to be more specific "They cannot be lost, they cannot and will not jump out of the fathers hands as some would like to imagine." If this is true, why do we read in Revelation 3:1-6 where Jesus Himself states:

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

Jesus was addressing believers who have turned from Him. He warns them that if they do not turn back to Him, He will blot out their name from the Book of Life. This alone tells me that one can decide to change their path and turn from Christ, even when they once followed Him. It also tells us that if we don't repent and return to Him, we will loose out salvation. That goes against everything OSAS claims, so there is a big difference. This is not easy for people to hear, and the reason why they argue against ever being able to loose their salvation. Those who do not want to follow Christ in their lives still want a guarantee that they will be accepted, but this is a lie.

first of all i totlaly disagree with your differences between osas and enternal security, if you can in any how lose your salvation then that is not eternal security.

Of course you do not agree with what I provided, since you have stated this before. When someone beleives in a doctirne for as many years as you have held onto OSAS, letting go takes a lot of humility and the willingness to look at the foundation your theology is built on to ensure it is not built partially on sand. To be honest, it really doesn't matter if you agree or not, due to them being only descriptive words of a doctrine. What does matter is that Eternal Security is true for those who do not turn from God or refuse to repent. Scripture proves that itself, which I pointed out above. If you choose to ignore scripture, then there is nothing more to discuss with you. It is then between you and the Holy Spirit. I told you the truth and brought you scripture to back it up. Now it is up to Him to work it into your belief system.

also those who over come in your verses from Rev, has been defined in scriptures

as those that believe in Jesus :

1Jn 5:1-5 KJV

(1)

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

(2)

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

(3)

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

(4)

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

(5)

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

we love Him because He first loved us, we believe: we are born of God then we keep His commandments , because we are saved, not to get saved, for we have already overcome the world by our faith in Jesus, if we are born of God then we have a Heavenly Father, who chastens His Children not cast them out when they do wrong, not that He can put up with our shortcomings, but that the price has already been paid by the Begotten Son. and His Mercy endures forever. you can not overcome sin without that righteous seed being planted in you. your righteousness is as filthly rags, and unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes you will in no wise enter in, now is there any one in the forum can stand and say that their righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes, unless they have taken on the righteousness of the righteous One, this is the righteousness that we need, not that righteousness of our own least we boast!! now if you can live in sin and not feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit, then you could be without chastisement, and scriptures are clear if this is the case, those without chastisements are Bastards and have no Father!!!

You fail to see in scripture that God never casts anyone out, but allows them to leave if they choose to leave through continuing disobedience. Read what Christ has said to the seven churches, not as a story, but as a study. What part of Revelation 3:1-6 don't you fully understand?

Let me give you some more scripture that shows where it is the choices people make that governs if they keep their salvation or choose to give it up.

Jesus is talking to the church of Ephesus in Revelation 2:4-5 "Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent." What happens if they choose not to repent to turn back to Him? He will remove their church for its place. This is a warning to the whole body of believers.

Jesus is speaking to the church of Pegamos in Revelation 2:14-16 "But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth." Jesus does not, nor will not, have to fight against one of His own, only His enemies. If they do nto replent, they turn from His children to His enemy.

Jesus tells those in teh church of Thyatira, in Revelation 2:29-23 " Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works." Not only do those who faollow the false doctrine called adulterors, and we know those who commit adultry will not enter into the kindgom of God, but they will also be cast into the great tribulation. As if that was not enough, they will be killed as one of her children, for one is the child of the one they follow ... those who are saved are children of God, those who follow Jezebel are the children of Jezebel.

I have already presented what Jesus said to the curuch of Sardis , so I will move onto the church of the Laodiceans. This is a very popular church today becaus it is seen by some as a message for todays church. Jesus tells us in Revelation 3:15-16 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth." Jesus would never consider one of His children so repulsive that He needs to spit them out of His mouth, yet that is what He is feeling toward this body of believers in their present state. It is clear that if they do not return to Him and their first love for Him, they are no longer His children.

Jesus does not say these things and not mean them. Those who refuse to see His warning for what they are will be the onse who do not repent, and it is clear what happens to them. You see, God will never loose one person whose heart is toward Him. Yet, He will not force anyone to choose to follow Him. That has to be a choice of their own to accept Him and to follow Him. Scripture never tell sus that once we are saved we can never turn from Him. Unfortunatly, some argue that they were never saved in teh first place, while scripture says just the oposite. Those who are addressed in the churches are thos ewho acepted salvation, or they woul dnot be in the church body. We may be fooled, but Jesus is never fooled.

[His_disciple3]

OSAS claims that no matter what you do after salvation, you still hold a punched ticket so you can live like the devil and still make it into heaven.

This is a blanket and decidedly false statement. You have a "hyper" version of nearly every belief in Christianity, but true OSAS does not say you can live like the devil and still make it into heaven. I think even the majority of OSAS on this board would agree wholeheartedly.

Let's discuss this.. What is the difference between Once Saved Always Saved and Eternal Security in your opinion?

Honestly Onelight, I don't see any real difference. I see OSAS as a man made phrase that is used to describe a biblical truth. Much like we use Trinity or rapture. To me it's simple, I believe once a man or woman gets saved, they are saved for eternity. They cannot be lost, they cannot and will not jump out of the fathers hands as some would like to imagine. I believe Christ bore the full punishment for the believing sinner and he or she cannot come into condemnation. They can be chastised and can be taken to the point of physical death if they insist on a sinful lifestyle, but I think scripture teaches that they themselves will be saved. Though I do not advocate a sinful lifestyle for a Christian (neither does scripture) I do believe the reality is that believers still sin. Not as a lifestyle or practice, or even enjoyment, but we do still fail God, we do still show times of disobedience, and self will, but I do not believe a Christian is lost or needs re-saving every time he or she sins.

Scripture is plain that it is not God's will that we sin, but IF we do sin, we have one who advocates for us. One who has paid for our sins

1Jn 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

1Jn 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

In short, I do not believe there is any real difference in what we call OSAS, or Eternal security. Both are true when one has faith in the living Christ.

I guess this is the reason why there is so much controversy on the subject. There are many who do not believe as you do, and many who do. Through the history of those claim to be OSAS, they claim that they can sin all they want because God has covered all their sin, past, present and future, by the blood of Christ with no repentance or regeneration needed. Those who believe in Eternal Security believe as you say, as long as one follow God, they are secure in Him.

Another issue with what you have posted, to be more specific "They cannot be lost, they cannot and will not jump out of the fathers hands as some would like to imagine." If this is true, why do we read in Revelation 3:1-6 where Jesus Himself states:

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

Jesus was addressing believers who have turned from Him. He warns them that if they do not turn back to Him, He will blot out their name from the Book of Life. This alone tells me that one can decide to change their path and turn from Christ, even when they once followed Him. It also tells us that if we don't repent and return to Him, we will loose out salvation. That goes against everything OSAS claims, so there is a big difference. This is not easy for people to hear, and the reason why they argue against ever being able to loose their salvation. Those who do not want to follow Christ in their lives still want a guarantee that they will be accepted, but this is a lie.

first of all i totlaly disagree with your differences between osas and enternal security, if you can in any how lose your salvation then that is not eternal security.

Of course you do not agree with what I provided, since you have stated this before. When someone beleives in a doctirne for as many years as you have held onto OSAS, letting go takes a lot of humility and the willingness to look at the foundation your theology is built on to ensure it is not built partially on sand. To be honest, it really doesn't matter if you agree or not, due to them being only descriptive words of a doctrine. What does matter is that Eternal Security is true for those who do not turn from God or refuse to repent. Scripture proves that itself, which I pointed out above. If you choose to ignore scripture, then there is nothing more to discuss with you. It is then between you and the Holy Spirit. I told you the truth and brought you scripture to back it up. Now it is up to Him to work it into your belief system.

also those who over come in your verses from Rev, has been defined in scriptures

as those that believe in Jesus :

1Jn 5:1-5 KJV

(1)

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

(2)

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

(3)

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

(4)

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

(5)

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

we love Him because He first loved us, we believe: we are born of God then we keep His commandments , because we are saved, not to get saved, for we have already overcome the world by our faith in Jesus, if we are born of God then we have a Heavenly Father, who chastens His Children not cast them out when they do wrong, not that He can put up with our shortcomings, but that the price has already been paid by the Begotten Son. and His Mercy endures forever. you can not overcome sin without that righteous seed being planted in you. your righteousness is as filthly rags, and unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes you will in no wise enter in, now is there any one in the forum can stand and say that their righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes, unless they have taken on the righteousness of the righteous One, this is the righteousness that we need, not that righteousness of our own least we boast!! now if you can live in sin and not feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit, then you could be without chastisement, and scriptures are clear if this is the case, those without chastisements are Bastards and have no Father!!!

You fail to see in scripture that God never casts anyone out, but allows them to leave if they choose to leave through continuing disobedience. Read what Christ has said to the seven churches, not as a story, but as a study. What part of Revelation 3:1-6 don't you fully understand?

Let me give you some more scripture that shows where it is the choices people make that governs if they keep their salvation or choose to give it up.

Jesus is talking to the church of Ephesus in Revelation 2:4-5 "Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent." What happens if they choose not to repent to turn back to Him? He will remove their church for its place. This is a warning to the whole body of believers.

Jesus is speaking to the church of Pegamos in Revelation 2:14-16 "But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth." Jesus does not, nor will not, have to fight against one of His own, only His enemies. If they do nto replent, they turn from His children to His enemy.

Jesus tells those in teh church of Thyatira, in Revelation 2:29-23 " Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works." Not only do those who faollow the false doctrine called adulterors, and we know those who commit adultry will not enter into the kindgom of God, but they will also be cast into the great tribulation. As if that was not enough, they will be killed as one of her children, for one is the child of the one they follow ... those who are saved are children of God, those who follow Jezebel are the children of Jezebel.

I have already presented what Jesus said to the curuch of Sardis , so I will move onto the church of the Laodiceans. This is a very popular church today becaus it is seen by some as a message for todays church. Jesus tells us in Revelation 3:15-16 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth." Jesus would never consider one of His children so repulsive that He needs to spit them out of His mouth, yet that is what He is feeling toward this body of believers in their present state. It is clear that if they do not return to Him and their first love for Him, they are no longer His children.

Jesus does not say these things and not mean them. Those who refuse to see His warning for what they are will be the onse who do not repent, and it is clear what happens to them. You see, God will never loose one person whose heart is toward Him. Yet, He will not force anyone to choose to follow Him. That has to be a choice of their own to accept Him and to follow Him. Scripture never tell sus that once we are saved we can never turn from Him. Unfortunatly, some argue that they were never saved in teh first place, while scripture says just the oposite. Those who are addressed in the churches are thos ewho acepted salvation, or they woul dnot be in the church body. We may be fooled, but Jesus is never fooled.

I base my salvation on the works of the Lord. and you base your on what you have done, and you say I am on sand???

1Co 3:8-15 KJV

(8)

Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

(9)

For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

(10)

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

(11)

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

(12)

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

(13)

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

(14)

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

(15)

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

works receive a reward not a Gift( a Gift of God eternal life) I can have good works or bad works, the good brought forth for a REWARD( Not a Gift) and the Bad works are burned up for a loss ( not perish as you intrepet lost) for verse 15 says for bad works a lose BUT the Man himself shall be saved. no my friend it is your doctrine that is not of scriptures, For Christ is the foundation and the corner stone, of my doctrine, you have Christ as the foundation but have made your works the corner stone. For it is By Grace through faith that we are saved , and NOT THAT OF WORKS, least we boast, and your doctrine and interpretation of scriptures contradicts the Bibical definition of salvation by GRACE THROUGH FAITH. and I hope you can see one day that God is the God of your salvation and not you as you have made yourself. for all your interpretation of the seven Churches you have failed to include 1 cor. 5:5 in , death or destruction of the flesh or to be removed from this earth is not always perishing as you understand death,

1Co 5:5 KJV(5)

To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

God may turn the flesh over to satan, but please note the the SPIRIT WILL BE SAVED. now take this thought and show me where either church was cast into hell. as you have been taught and are teaching,

Edited March 23, 2013 by His_disciple3

[Guest Butero]

OSAS claims that no matter what you do after salvation, you still hold a punched ticket so you can live like the devil and still make it into heaven.

This is a blanket and decidedly false statement. You have a "hyper" version of nearly every belief in Christianity, but true OSAS does not say you can live like the devil and still make it into heaven. I think even the majority of OSAS on this board would agree wholeheartedly.

I read these two comments earlier, and wanted to ask you a follow up. You say that OSAS doesn't say you can live like the devil and make it into heaven? If that is true, what does "once saved always saved" mean? If you can't live like the devil after getting saved and make it into heaven, wouldn't that mean you can lose your salvation? Wouldn't it be like, "once saved, always saved, unless you choose to live like the devil after getting saved???