OneLight Posted March 28, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 28, 2013 Jesus will return at the last trumpet. Do you disagree with this? Jesus has taken people back to heaven with him , those who were raised from paradise when he rose from the dead , And all people who have died since then that have "died in Christ" as born-again believers are in the presence of the LORD. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 does not state that the trumpet in which you consider is actually the trumpet that is being blown , just cause you see a scripture that speaks of a last trumpet does not have to mean that it is the trumpet for the rapture, ; that would be an assumption , It is not an assumption, but a fact. Those who do follow the Pre-Trib idea take this out of context and claim it is a last of a different series of trumpets, not really the last trumpet scripture tells us it is. Search for the word trumpet in what ever tool you use in your studies and see when the word Trumpet is used. There is not any indication that there are separate trumpets outside of the 7 trumpets of Revelation when pertaining to the rapture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted March 28, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,986 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 28, 2013 If you notice the whole teaching of all three of these parables (the faithful and evil servant) (wise and foolish virgins) (parable of talents) Is the same in each parable.............To be prepared, and to be doing the will of God Hi back2thebible, Welcome to worthy! I agree with your statement above. But what do you believe the servants need to be prepared for, the rapture or the second coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted March 28, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 28, 2013 Jesus will return at the last trumpet. Do you disagree with this? Jesus has taken people back to heaven with him , those who were raised from paradise when he rose from the dead , And all people who have died since then that have "died in Christ" as born-again believers are in the presence of the LORD. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 does not state that the trumpet in which you consider is actually the trumpet that is being blown , just cause you see a scripture that speaks of a last trumpet does not have to mean that it is the trumpet for the rapture, ; that would be an assumption , It is not an assumption, but a fact. Those who do follow the Pre-Trib idea take this out of context and claim it is a last of a different series of trumpets, not really the last trumpet scripture tells us it is. Search for the word trumpet in what ever tool you use in your studies and see when the word Trumpet is used. There is not any indication that there are separate trumpets outside of the 7 trumpets of Revelation when pertaining to the rapture. OneLight There is no Scripture that ties the "Last Trumpet Call from God" to any of the 7 Trumpet blasts by angels in Rev. 8 and 9. Take a look at Rev 8:13 - As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in mid air call out in a loud voice. "Woe, Woe, Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels. Woe means ; deep sorrow, grief, misfortune. Woeful means ; afflicted with woe, mournful. pitiful, deplorable. Look, it says Beware, Beware, Beware ye inhabitants of the earth. Then go to Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind which were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of thier hands and did not stop whorshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood.... The last three Trumpets of Rev are all Woes to the inhabitants of the earth. No Whoppies. But praise God to Christians, you are to leave soon, is not there. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 29, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2013 Jesus will return at the last trumpet. Do you disagree with this? Jesus has taken people back to heaven with him , those who were raised from paradise when he rose from the dead , And all people who have died since then that have "died in Christ" as born-again believers are in the presence of the LORD. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 does not state that the trumpet in which you consider is actually the trumpet that is being blown , just cause you see a scripture that speaks of a last trumpet does not have to mean that it is the trumpet for the rapture, ; that would be an assumption , It is not an assumption, but a fact. Those who do follow the Pre-Trib idea take this out of context and claim it is a last of a different series of trumpets, not really the last trumpet scripture tells us it is. Search for the word trumpet in what ever tool you use in your studies and see when the word Trumpet is used. There is not any indication that there are separate trumpets outside of the 7 trumpets of Revelation when pertaining to the rapture. OneLight There is no Scripture that ties the "Last Trumpet Call from God" to any of the 7 Trumpet blasts by angels in Rev. 8 and 9. Take a look at Rev 8:13 - As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in mid air call out in a loud voice. "Woe, Woe, Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels. Woe means ; deep sorrow, grief, misfortune. Woeful means ; afflicted with woe, mournful. pitiful, deplorable. Look, it says Beware, Beware, Beware ye inhabitants of the earth. Then go to Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind which were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of thier hands and did not stop whorshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood.... The last three Trumpets of Rev are all Woes to the inhabitants of the earth. No Whoppies. But praise God to Christians, you are to leave soon, is not there. In Christ Montana Marv So, are you saying that the God who protected Noah, will not protect us? The God who protected the Hebrew nation in Egypt through the plagues will not protect His children today? The God who parted the Red Sea will not part His tribulation for us to walk through? We, those who are His, are already sealed and do not have to repent from our sins for the reason of salvation. which those who have rejected Him do, though they continue to refuse Him. We are not destined to feel His wrath, but the wrath of God comes in the Viles or Bowls, not the Seals or Trumpets Scripture tells us that the Last Trumpet is the Last Trumpet. By the way, where is the "Last Trumpet Call from God" found in scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted March 29, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2013 Jesus will return at the last trumpet. Do you disagree with this? Jesus has taken people back to heaven with him , those who were raised from paradise when he rose from the dead , And all people who have died since then that have "died in Christ" as born-again believers are in the presence of the LORD. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 does not state that the trumpet in which you consider is actually the trumpet that is being blown , just cause you see a scripture that speaks of a last trumpet does not have to mean that it is the trumpet for the rapture, ; that would be an assumption , It is not an assumption, but a fact. Those who do follow the Pre-Trib idea take this out of context and claim it is a last of a different series of trumpets, not really the last trumpet scripture tells us it is. Search for the word trumpet in what ever tool you use in your studies and see when the word Trumpet is used. There is not any indication that there are separate trumpets outside of the 7 trumpets of Revelation when pertaining to the rapture. OneLight There is no Scripture that ties the "Last Trumpet Call from God" to any of the 7 Trumpet blasts by angels in Rev. 8 and 9. Take a look at Rev 8:13 - As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in mid air call out in a loud voice. "Woe, Woe, Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels. Woe means ; deep sorrow, grief, misfortune. Woeful means ; afflicted with woe, mournful. pitiful, deplorable. Look, it says Beware, Beware, Beware ye inhabitants of the earth. Then go to Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind which were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of thier hands and did not stop whorshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood.... The last three Trumpets of Rev are all Woes to the inhabitants of the earth. No Whoppies. But praise God to Christians, you are to leave soon, is not there. In Christ Montana Marv So, are you saying that the God who protected Noah, will not protect us? The God who protected the Hebrew nation in Egypt through the plagues will not protect His children today? The God who parted the Red Sea will not part His tribulation for us to walk through? We, those who are His, are already sealed and do not have to repent from our sins for the reason of salvation. which those who have rejected Him do, though they continue to refuse Him. We are not destined to feel His wrath, but the wrath of God comes in the Viles or Bowls, not the Seals or Trumpets Scripture tells us that the Last Trumpet is the Last Trumpet. By the way, where is the "Last Trumpet Call from God" found in scripture? One Light God put Noah in safety before the destruction of the world with water. He took him out of harms way, separation or removal. Your statement of God protecting us today? From what? Did He protect His own disciples? No, many suffered horrible deaths. You need to read Martyrs for Christ; How many suffered horrible deaths. And you want protection from what? The saints during the reign of the beast and false prophet die by the sword (beheading) or going into captivity (become slaves) Rev 13. Which do you perfer? No guarantees. The last trumpet call of God is not in Scripture, neither does Scripture day the Last trumpet is the 7th trumpet. One must look at the feast of Trumpets which is associated with the Rapture. This happens in the fall months. This is not associated with the 7 Trumpets. Gods protection for us is being part of the First Resurrection and not the Wrath of the Second Resurrection. 1 Thes 5:9 - For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath, but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. This is ongoing and not just referring to the S, T, B judgments. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 29, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2013 Jesus will return at the last trumpet. Do you disagree with this? Jesus has taken people back to heaven with him , those who were raised from paradise when he rose from the dead , And all people who have died since then that have "died in Christ" as born-again believers are in the presence of the LORD. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 does not state that the trumpet in which you consider is actually the trumpet that is being blown , just cause you see a scripture that speaks of a last trumpet does not have to mean that it is the trumpet for the rapture, ; that would be an assumption , It is not an assumption, but a fact. Those who do follow the Pre-Trib idea take this out of context and claim it is a last of a different series of trumpets, not really the last trumpet scripture tells us it is. Search for the word trumpet in what ever tool you use in your studies and see when the word Trumpet is used. There is not any indication that there are separate trumpets outside of the 7 trumpets of Revelation when pertaining to the rapture. OneLight There is no Scripture that ties the "Last Trumpet Call from God" to any of the 7 Trumpet blasts by angels in Rev. 8 and 9. Take a look at Rev 8:13 - As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in mid air call out in a loud voice. "Woe, Woe, Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels. Woe means ; deep sorrow, grief, misfortune. Woeful means ; afflicted with woe, mournful. pitiful, deplorable. Look, it says Beware, Beware, Beware ye inhabitants of the earth. Then go to Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind which were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of thier hands and did not stop whorshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood.... The last three Trumpets of Rev are all Woes to the inhabitants of the earth. No Whoppies. But praise God to Christians, you are to leave soon, is not there. In Christ Montana Marv So, are you saying that the God who protected Noah, will not protect us? The God who protected the Hebrew nation in Egypt through the plagues will not protect His children today? The God who parted the Red Sea will not part His tribulation for us to walk through? We, those who are His, are already sealed and do not have to repent from our sins for the reason of salvation. which those who have rejected Him do, though they continue to refuse Him. We are not destined to feel His wrath, but the wrath of God comes in the Viles or Bowls, not the Seals or Trumpets Scripture tells us that the Last Trumpet is the Last Trumpet. By the way, where is the "Last Trumpet Call from God" found in scripture? One Light God put Noah in safety before the destruction of the world with water. He took him out of harms way, separation or removal. Your statement of God protecting us today? From what? Did He protect His own disciples? No, many suffered horrible deaths. You need to read Martyrs for Christ; How many suffered horrible deaths. And you want protection from what? The saints during the reign of the beast and false prophet die by the sword (beheading) or going into captivity (become slaves) Rev 13. Which do you perfer? No guarantees. The last trumpet call of God is not in Scripture, neither does Scripture day the Last trumpet is the 7th trumpet. One must look at the feast of Trumpets which is associated with the Rapture. This happens in the fall months. This is not associated with the 7 Trumpets. Gods protection for us is being part of the First Resurrection and not the Wrath of the Second Resurrection. 1 Thes 5:9 - For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath, but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. This is ongoing and not just referring to the S, T, B judgments. In Christ Montana Marv I see Gods movements as bring them through, not take them out of the way. If that were the case, them He would of taken them to heaven, not provided for them as He did. People, since I can remember, take what God has done and try their hardest to make it conform to their desires. Yes, it would be excellent if God came for us right now, but He has set a time, and that time is at the Last Trumpet. The tribulation that is coming, one that this world has never seen before, yes, even the martyrs. Even if the Trumpets are according to the Feast of Trumpets, tell me why the Last Trumpet cannot be during that time? The First Resurrection does not happen until Jesus Returns, as shown in scripture. The Second Death is not until the Great White Throne Judgment, also in scripture. I am not sure where you are getting all this from, but look again to scripture to see if what you are saying lines up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 29, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2013 I would like to discuss the the 10 virgins. I do not believe the 5 foolish virgins are the unsaved. Why would the unsaved be waiting for a bridegroom they want nothing to do with? IF they have rejected Him all through life, what is their reason to be waiting for His return? I see these are fence sitters who do not live according the the Lord, but just wander through life claiming to be a Christian while not living for the Lord. They are not ready because they have not done His will in their life. Before we continue, I do not believe in a pretribulation rapture, but the rapture at the last trumpet. I would like to ask when have virgins ever been attributed to unsaved people? That is the question you need to ask the OP. The OP said they were lost. I implied that they were saved because they were waiting for the Bridegroom to return. (See above) Unsaved people are not waiting for His return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted March 29, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2013 The five unwise virgins were lost. As to what the Bridegroom said in Matt 25:12 - But he replied, I tell you the truth, I don't know you. Like the parable of the talents; Matt 25:28-30 - Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has 10 talents. For everyone who has, will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Jesus knows his sheep; evidently, He did know they (the five unwise virgins) were not of his flock. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted March 29, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2013 The five unwise virgins were lost. As to what the Bridegroom said in Matt 25:12 - But he replied, I tell you the truth, I don't know you. Like the parable of the talents; Matt 25:28-30 - Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has 10 talents. For everyone who has, will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Jesus knows his sheep; evidently, He did know they (the five unwise virgins) were not of his flock. In Christ Montana Marv I'm glad to see the thread is back on the topic. I agree that Jesus said He didn't know them, that's clearly stated in the parable. What do you make of the opening verse though? Why is the parable given the format "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like....."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted March 29, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,318 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,523 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Sorry I have been absent, I have also been tired, busy, and not feeling at that top of my game. I decided to just sit this one out, at least for a while, and just observe where the topic goes under it's out momentum. I did want to pose a question to enoob though - what gives us the authority to take a verse that was written 2000 years ago in the present tense, and make it apply indefinelty. We have the completed canon of Scripture and as N.T. has not entered anything additional to the present of then 'when Jesus spoke this' it lies, as then, in imminent occurrence- of happening according to The Father's decission... Did Jesus say no man would ever know? We cannot say no man will ever know, beause clearly when it happens we will all know. Aslo, what was also not said, was no man knows the time, it says the day or hour, can we really assume that to men no man will ever know the year or the century etc? It takes a lot for granted, espeically after just reading a passage in which Jesus names a number of events that we can look to to gauge when it is getting near. Even on that alone, maybe we cannot say when it will be, but we can say until all the signs are complete, and other events which the bible said would take place first are done, it won't happen before then. Pre-tribbers focus on the idea of imminence, while the bible points out delay, in my opinion. One of the things that post-tribbers find difficult with the pre-trib perspective, is how many assumptions are made about what verses mean that are a stretch at best, and not the most literal understanding while often at the same time, clame to be the postition that is the most literal. I apologize for missing this OM... a lot of what you are saying 'stretching' is the weave of Scripture and we all wait upon God's fulfillment to know 'I got that one or oooops missed that one ' as all of prophecy is A Friend telling His friends all that was given to Him by the councils of The God Head... so we all await the entering in of what will be in fulfillment to Scripture The Glories of God! I have studied much and ongoing and as my heart is formed within presently I am leaned to the pretrib interpretation Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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