A Philosophical Look at Hell

[Guest]

I suspect that the fire is so we can have a way of understanding that it is torment - most people have experienced a burn. If it said that those in Hell would suffer spiritual torment, who would have any idea what it might be like?

[missmuffet]

Who created hell God or Evil?

God did. But it was created for satan and his angels, not for man.

Thank you. Can't seem to find the scriptures... Where do I look?

Mat 25:41 maybe? Doesn't say who created it, but does say it is prepared for the devil and his angels, I doubt they prepared it for themselves.

Not sure why hell has to be made out of fire when the spirit doesn't feel fire, the mortal flesh does while still mortal.

The spirit will feel alot of pain and fire .Those in hell will have eternal torment.

http://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html

[HAZARD]

Hi Hall7

God, The Word created everything there is in the Earth and the entire universe;

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.: John 1:1-3).

Therefore Hell was created by God; "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" (Matt. 25:41).

Just as God has created, prepared good things for those who love Him,

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." (1 Cor. 2:9).

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." (John 14:2).

"Not sure why hell has to be made out of fire when the spirit doesn't feel fire, the mortal flesh does while still mortal."

Mortal flesh not only feels heat and fire, fire will burn,, kill, and consume a mortal body.

The difference between flesh and bone and a spirit body is substance. The Spirit body is definately far better for its an, 'eternal body' the other, is a 'mortal or finite' body.

The fact that a spirit body can feel heat and pain in Hell, but is not killed or consumed by hell fire is proved by the fact that the richman in Hell asked Abraham to send Lazarus to bring water to cool his tongue;

"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame." (Luke 16:22-24).

Cheers, Haz.

[Hall7]

Thanks for clarifying..

[janiebeth]

I have a question I have been wrestling with and I was wondering people's thoughts on the matter. Hell, commonly understood, is a place of eternal separation from God which is going to be the worst possible experience that anyone can ever hope to achieve. The major philosophical problem I am running into was posed to me by a deist friend of mine who was questioning whether the idea of hell was in some manner an injustice. His argument was as follows in roughly the order of the conversation we had (this is not a logic argument and is not in proper premise-conclusion form - I realize this).

(1) God creates human race

(2) The human race is finite

(3) Through actions of their own (this is assumed as I currently am holding a Molinist position of free will), part of the human race is justly condemned to separation from God.

(4) To be just, the punishment must fit the crime

(5) Eternal punishment is never a just punishment for a finite crime

(6) Even if original sin, the sins of all humanity was taking into consideration, based on (2) we would still require a finite punishment

(5) and (6) are particularly intriguing to me and have kept me thinking. I was wondering people's thoughts on the matter.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As always, I look forward to dialogue.

Regards,

BFA

Hello and thanks for the post. Actually, I meet very many people who hold this very same opinion. They find God (the Christian God that is) to be cruel and judgmental; His power to them is outside their comprehension, and since they do not see the Creator as having any ownership, they really cannot understand why He would be so angry with them--they were just born that way, so why judge so harshly. In addition to the other posters here, you might be able to explain the Christian understanding that Hell was created for Satan. As there really is only two choices as a master, God or Satan, if we are not under one we are then under the other. Of course, this will not be easy to explain as non-Christians just don't believe that. They believe that we can be "The Captain of Our Own Ship" (Invictus). However, this plays directly into the idea that any denial of God's authority is really just putting Satan in charge as he is against God having any authority over him. Thereby, he is the leader in the rebellion against God. This makes Satan the new master. Hell was created for him and all his children. So, when we are judged we are to partake in either Jesus as our Master or Satan with each having their own reward. Those who choose to rebel get the same reward as their master, Satan. Their is no grey area. They will follow their master into Hell.

[JohnD]

I have a question I have been wrestling with and I was wondering people's thoughts on the matter. Hell, commonly understood, is a place of eternal separation from God which is going to be the worst possible experience that anyone can ever hope to achieve. The major philosophical problem I am running into was posed to me by a deist friend of mine who was questioning whether the idea of hell was in some manner an injustice. His argument was as follows in roughly the order of the conversation we had (this is not a logic argument and is not in proper premise-conclusion form - I realize this).

(1) God creates human race

(2) The human race is finite

(3) Through actions of their own (this is assumed as I currently am holding a Molinist position of free will), part of the human race is justly condemned to separation from God.

(4) To be just, the punishment must fit the crime

(5) Eternal punishment is never a just punishment for a finite crime

(6) Even if original sin, the sins of all humanity was taking into consideration, based on (2) we would still require a finite punishment

(5) and (6) are particularly intriguing to me and have kept me thinking. I was wondering people's thoughts on the matter.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As always, I look forward to dialogue.

Regards,

BFA

Too many missing parameters...

(1) God creates the spirit realm and spirit beings in their final (infinite is the word you use) state (Luke 20:36).

(2) Spirit beings rebel against God following the mastermind of the rebellion Lucifer (formerly the chiefest among the angelic host) ((Revelation 12:4 / Revelation 12:7-9))

(3) Some court-type scene or bargain is struck between the Creator (Jesus preincarnate: John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16 / Isaiah 44:24) and the fallen Lucifer (see Job chapters 1 and 2 if you believe such a bargain could never happen)

(4) To rid eternity of sin once and for all (Colossians 1:20), the Creator created the physical realm and peopled it with hybrids (spirit beings with flesh and blood bodies which can die) ((Hebrews 9:27))

(5) Man's ability to die provides the means by which the Creator would rid all of eternity of sin is by he himself becoming a human and laying down his life as a kinsman redeemer for the human race (1 John 2:2 / 1 Timothy 4:10 / John 3:16-18) and rising from the dead (Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12 / 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 / Acts 4:12 / John 14:6)

These points are well into high gear before your arguments even get started.

Hell is the destination of human unbelievers and the fallen angels. But is was not created for people.

Matthew 25:41 (NASB95)

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Humans were created to be redeemed. But the choice has to be the individuals.'

With so much at stake, admittedly, we all take a very cavalier approach to the fate of humanity in our daily lives. If people realized what was at stake (believer or unbeliever) we would all live a much more intense life devoted to keeping as many people out of hell as we could through winning them to Christ and converting to Christ ourselves...

I guess what I am saying is don't disbelieve how us sheep will end up at the slaughter house based on the cavalier attitude of the herd on the truck ride there.

[tinyprayers]

I'm bringing this last thread on this first page back to first place. It's wild that this forum doesn't get more traffic given the topic.

If God predestined all things as he says and for his glory and by his will, why would he offer us redemption after opening Hell for our appointment should we refuse?

[LuftWaffle]

On 3/12/2017 at 6:34 PM, tinyprayers said:

I'm bringing this last thread on this first page back to first place. It's wild that this forum doesn't get more traffic given the topic.

If God predestined all things as he says and for his glory and by his will, why would he offer us redemption after opening Hell for our appointment should we refuse?

Would you mind clarifying your concern. Are you concerned that God is offering redemption, predestination, or is your concern about hell?

Edited March 16, 2017 by LuftWaffle

[tinyprayers]

I'd ask about Hell being first created to hold Satan and his angels. And then somehow we humans were included in that fate. God created Hell for Satan but extended its admittance to us.

 

[enoob57]

22 hours ago, tinyprayers said:

I'd ask about Hell being first created to hold Satan and his angels. And then somehow we humans were included in that fate. God created Hell for Satan but extended its admittance to us.

 

It was explained here why

John 8:42 (KJV)

[42] Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

[43] Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

People continue in sin till there is nothing but satan in them....