Who is with me? How much do you love God?

[Guest]

Although our comments got deleted, I didn't respond because, as I said elsewhere, I'm done defending. The scriptures I post speak for themselves. People can read and make up their own mind.

[Guest]

Faith in Christ moves us in glorious ways all for God's good will! Any stories out there of the love for God and how your faith was affected!?

Also please visit my blog and share! Encourage the body of Christ! http://faithsharer.blogspot.com/

Welcome~!

[Guest]

Persecution from the Christ-haters is our part, not going God's wrath and through the time of JACOB'S TROUBLE, the tribulation which is going to be localized in the Middle East.

What part of "the time of Jacob's trouble" don't ya'll understand.

I guess there is a part I do not understand about how the time of Jacob's trouble is understood by some. I think we all agree that the Jabob in "The time of Jacob's trouble", represents Jacobs descendants, the Jews. I think we can see in many scriptures, that these events are focused in Israel, and Jerusalem in particular to a large degree, even thought they are also described as having world wide impact. It is one thing to ignore the worldwide aspects described in scripture, but what I do not understand though, is the insistence that 'Jacob' represents a location, and not a people.

There are more Jews in Los Angeles, California, than there are in Jerusalem. Are we to suppose that the Jews are so much more righteous in L.A., or that God only wants to punish Israeli Jews for their unfaithfulness, while sparing other unfaithful Jews around the world (or whatever reason you think that this befalls "Jacob"?

Additionally, what is the big deal about admitting that the bible teaches a world wide event anyway? Why ignore so much scripture? I don't get it, I do not see what it affects that people have an investment in believing that the most horrendous event in human history, will just be a local matter. Can someone explain this?

Now, just to be clear with reference to the OP, I mentioned the tribulation specifically, because I understand that some people think it odd that Christians might be in those circumstances. In this thread, it is not about debating whether Christians will be there or not. Clearly though either they will be or they will not. Some conclusions are therefore necessarily wrong. If I were a person who still believed in the pre-trib rapture of the Church, I think I would acknowledge that there is at least the possibility that I might be wrong. In fact, if that were not the case, I guess I would still be a premie. So, while I did not direct the OP at pre-trib rapture theorists, I would think that a good thing for them to think about, would be how would they respond to the discovery that they had been wrong and now found themselves in the midst of the tribulation. Would they abandon the faith, be victims of the coming deception, and be part of the apostasy that is coming according to 2 Thess 2?

I had hoped, that people might do a little self reflecting about whether they are willing to go through the worst for the savior who gave them everything,

With verses like:

“And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39“He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

or

“The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.

​There are others as you know, and the bible is consistent in trying to convince the believer to have the attitude that this life is not where our focus is to be, to even embrace trouble, consider persecution for the sake of Christ is something to be joyful over. It is ok to believe that Christians will not have to endure the perils of the great tribulation. Where I have an issue, and have great concern, is for people who do not love God enough to be willing to accept His will, or who ignore the bible to the degree that they cannot face the fact that it is entirely within God's character, to allow His saints to suffer for His glory.

I am hoping, to discover that a large number of Christians have the attitude of the apostle Paul:

14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. 18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

This is what I am encouraging, cultivating your hearts to be willing to do what is asked of us, to be ready and even willing to die and even suffer for our glorious Savior. It is not a matter of what you believe about the last things, it is a matter of whether we have the attitude asked of us, do we have supernatural love:

“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends."

Is Jesus our friend? Do we really love Him? The implication is obvious. If upon self examination we cannot pray with conviction:

"Jesus, I am yours all the way, use me how you will, even my very life is yours, use me as you wish, glorify yourself in my life and even in my death, as it pleases you"

then I think our prayer should be:

Jesus I love you I believe in you, but I need more faith and more love, that only you can give. I ask you to change my heart, to where I am truly willing to offer myself as a living sacrifice, so that in my life and in my death, I would glorify you if and when I am called to do so. Remove from me the spirit of fear that I harbor, and replace it with a love that overwhelms my shortcomings.

So, in the spirit of the OP, I ask again, "Who is with me?"

Edited May 13, 2013 by GoldenEagle
<<< To fix quotations. >>>

[GoldenEagle]

My only concern with this thread is that those who may not believe a particular way about the tribulation may be considered less "on fire" for God?

For clarification I'm neither pre, mid, or post trib. I'm pro. I believe the Bible said it's going to happen and how that all works out is up to God.

Side note I honestly think we as Christians spend way too much time on this topic that (like Armenianism Vs Calvinism) just seems to create more rifts than building bridges.

....

I think that discussing these things, even if there is common dissent from each side, is incredibly important in building those bridges because in a lot of cases I simply see no other way to do it. ....

I agree SteveS but it is the way these discussions are conducted which is important. If they cannot be discussed cordially then it is better to leave them dormant.

Yes Ninhao I agree brother

[Guest]

.... Jesus I love you I believe in you, but I need more faith and more love, that only you can give. I ask you to change my heart, to where I am truly willing to offer myself as a living sacrifice, so that in my life and in my death, I would glorify you if and when I am called to do so. Remove from me the spirit of fear that I harbor, and replace it with a love that overwhelms my shortcomings.

So, in the spirit of the OP, I ask again, "Who is with me?"

Amen~!

If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Philippians 2:1-8

And Amen~!

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. Psalms 51:12

[Little One]

At this point I do not know if there is a "rapture" or not. I do know that The Lord promises to protect those who are His in wherever circumstances we find ourselves. Whether I am in this body of flesh, or out of this body, my instructions are ever the same: Love God and others as myself. This simplifies my life so that the circumstances -- which are many and everchanging -- do not supercede my singular purpose, which is to do the Will of the Father one day, one moment at a time. Many circumstances, one instruction = simplicity, money or no money, health or no health, body or no body...

[Steve_S]

My only concern with this thread is that those who may not believe a particular way about the tribulation may be considered less "on fire" for God?

For clarification I'm neither pre, mid, or post trib. I'm pro. I believe the Bible said it's going to happen and how that all works out is up to God.

Side note I honestly think we as Christians spend way too much time on this topic that (like Armenianism Vs Calvinism) just seems to create more rifts than building bridges.

....

I think that discussing these things, even if there is common dissent from each side, is incredibly important in building those bridges because in a lot of cases I simply see no other way to do it. ....

I agree SteveS but it is the way these discussions are conducted which is important. If they cannot be discussed cordially then it is better to leave them dormant.

Yes Ninhao I agree brother

The problem here is that a lot of the time the entire thread gets punished because one or two people within it are being discourteous or slandering. So you have a few people having a very good discussion, but disagreeing, one or two get personal, and the topic has to be dropped. That seems a bit unfair to me, honestly.

As far as disagreement on prophecy, a fairly significant portion of the Bible is indeed prophecy and, being as how it's scripture, it should be studied thoroughly and with care, as with any other theological area. I have no problem with someone full well admitting that they have no desire to seek to discern the prophetic scriptures, etc., but there are definitely people who do feel that desire and I think that putting them down by claiming that "we spend too much time on this topic" is a bit unfair as well. That may have legitimately insulted someone's Spirit led scriptural exposition. If someone feels led to exposit, write about, discuss, or debate prophecy then I don't see how we can quantify how much time is "too much time", so I'll ask outright. Exactly how much time is "too much time" to devote to this particular area of study?

[ayin jade]

Exactly how much time is "too much time" to devote to this particular area of study?

To any biblical topic: when it becomes unprofitable to all concerned. I do not see that as having happened yet though.

[xero]

Keep in mind the amount of abuse in this world. Spousal, child, and substance abuse. Abuse of power, influence, wealth, etc., are all contributing to the destruction of man. I know and understand the bigger events you guys mention but dont think of these struggles in this world that have been present with us in every era as being little matters. Children are falling into abusive cycles that are a repetition of the same over all scheme of a downward spiral. Abuse is what is happening to love.