Are people in Heaven?

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

Do you guys understand what it means for Scripture to teach something? Do you understand what an inference is?

 

 

Do you, Butch? It is a difficult thing for one to allow Holy Spirit to teach His truth when one is hardened to it and is bound and determined to deny it even when it is boldly presented.

 

Our teacher is Holy Spirit, remember!

 

Well since the Scriptures are the truth and I've asked repeatedly to be shown where this "other" spirit is taught in the Scriptures and haven't been shown, I have to conclude that you guys aren't presenting the truth. Actually, it Plato doctrines that are being espoused, not the Bibles.

 

 

You have been shown, but you refuse to be shown anything that just doesn't jive with your take on things. That is not teachable. It is proof to us that you are just wanting to argue for argument's sake...as usual.

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

Here is a quote from the Church Historian Eusebius. He sheds some light on how this doctrine infiltrated Christianity.

 

“Plato … plainly declares that a rational soul is the breath of God, and divides all things into two classes, intellectual and sensible: consisting of bodily structure; the one comprehended by the intellect alone, the other estimated by the judgment and the senses. The former class, therefore, which partakes of the divine spirit, and is uncompounded and immaterial, is eternal, and inherits everlasting life; but the latter, being entirely resolved into the elements of which it is composed, has no share in everlasting life. He [Plato] farther teaches the admirable doctrine, that those who have passed a life of virtue, that is, the spirits of good and holy men, are enshrined, after their separation from the body, in the fairest mansions of heaven. A doctrine not merely to be admired, but profitable too. For who can believe in such a statement, and aspire to such a happy lot, without desiring to practice righteousness and temperance, and to turn aside from vice? 

 

In the late 200's a few Christian leaders in Alexandria, a hotbed of Gnosticism fell prey to some of Plato's doctrines and tried to incorporate them into the faith.

 

Plato taught no "admirable doctrine". Please, don't start giving us quotes from heretics and unbelievers---ancient or otherwise.

 

That's my point. It's no admirable doctrine, yet you are espousing it.

 

 

No, we aren't. We are speaking what Holy Spirit has taught us.

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

if anyone is wasting time it's not me. I've shown the Scriptures. If want to talk about denying the Scriptures you might want to consider what you're saying. Scripture says the dead know nothing. You say the are conscious spirits. I'll go with Scripture.

 

 

Once again you prove that you misunderstand what God says. Of course the dead know nothing---their brains are not working. However, their spirits are alive, as are their souls, and all they have ever known of the world and of God is stored in those two parts.

Wow, and you say I don't understand the Scruiptures?

 

 

 

Yes, you don't.

[Guest]

Well since the Scriptures are the truth and I've asked repeatedly to be shown where this "other" spirit is taught in the Scriptures and haven't been shown, I have to conclude that you guys aren't presenting the truth....

 

 

Truth

 

And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God. Leviticus 20:6-7

 

And Nothing

 

When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. Matthew 12:43-45

 

But The

 

Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed. And there was great joy in that city. Acts 8:5-8

 

Truth

 

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1

[thereselittleflower]

 

If the words of a preacher contradict the words of Christ, then I would not listen to such a preacher.

 

The words of Jesus:

• Matthew 22:32
• I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

• John 12:26
• Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

 

The words of Paul

• 2 Corinthians 5:8
• We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

• Philippians 1:23
• I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;

 

 

All who die in Christ are alive for God is the God of all who are in Christ, and He is not the God of the dead.   

All who are Christs are where Christ is.  If Christ is in heaven, they who have died in Christ are also in heaven.

All who are in Christ, when they die, and leave their body, are at home with the Lord.

All who are in Christ, when they die and depart this earth, they are with Christ who is in heaven.

 

 

This is the word of the Lord.

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

Jeff -  you misunderstand me.  

If a Catholic preacher taught something that was wrong, I wouldn't listen to him much.  But one Catholic preacher does not Catholic teaching make.  

But it's nice to see you actually talking with me rather than at me.  

 

 

Edited August 18, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[Kan]

It's difficult to work out exactly how many theories there are about life after death. If we count the theories in proclaimed Christian religions alone, it is between about 50 to 620 possible versions, based on four sets of doctrines, each with 2 to 5 different versions. If we count in the Pagan doctrines, we only end up with a few more, because the Pagan doctrines are already intertwined into Christianity. Which probably explains why there is so much confusion on the subject. And the Devil knows it.

But if we go by what the Bible teaches, we will end up with only one version which all can agree on, which does not conflict with any of the texts provided in this thread. And in order to do that all you need to know is one single doctrine, just one, which puts a clear line between the true and all the false. It cuts out all the 600 odd false versions and leaves you with one true doctrine of death.

Whenever we have a problem with any doctrine we should go back to Genesis, because God has put all the essential truth's in this first book, even in the first chapters of that book. So it is up to the reader to interpret the rest of the Bible based on the basics in Genesis, otherwise we end up with what we have today.

Some of you have already done that and are in the process of seeing contradictions, all these contradictions will disappear once you see the one true doctrine. It is as clear as day to night.

I will not say what it is, but here is a clue, it is in the first recorded conversation between the devil and human beings. The devil told a lie which is contrary to the doctrine of life and death, which ALL of the unbelieving world still believe today.

If unbelieving doctrines of the pagans (the devil) are totally diffused throughout Christianity, what result would you expect other than what has been demonstrated in this thread?

 

[HAZARD]

Many Scriptures teach that Heaven is inhabited. (1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Matt.18:10; 22:30; 24:36; Rev. 12:12; 13:6). Armies and hosts of Heaven are mentioned an number of times as seen in these passages and in Dan. 4:35; Luke 2:13; Rev. 19:14. These inhabitants are listed in part as common angels, archangels, seraphim, cherubim and other spirit beings. Heavenly bodies are mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:48-49. Rejocing in Heaven is referred to by the inhabitants in Heaven (Ps. 96:11; 148:1, 4; Isa.44:23; Rev. 12:12). 8. Paul speaks of "the invisible things" in Heaven as being like the visible things on Earth; that is the things in Heaven are just like the things on Earth. (Rom. 1:20). The word "things" is used in many passages in referring to realities in Heaven. (Phil. 2:10; Col 1:16-20; Heb. 8:12; 9:23). We know from Scripture that in Heaven there are Cities (Rev.21), mansions (John 14:1-3), trees, rivers (Rev.22:1-3), fountains of water (Rev. 7:17), food (Ex.16:4; Ps.78:25: 105:40; John 6:31-51: Luke 22:16, 18, 30; Rev. 2:7, 17: 19:1-10; 22:1-3).

ANIMALS are mentioned as being in Heaven in these following Scriptures; (2 Kings 2:11-12; 6:13-17; Zech. 1:8-11: 6:1-8; Rev. 19:11-14, 21: Rom. 1:20).

All these things are mentioned, furniture, tongs (Isa.6:6), fire and coals (Isa. 6:6; Rev.8:5) censer and incense (Rev. 8:4-6), smoke (Rev. 8:4; 15:8), musical instruments (Rev. 5:8; 14:1-5; 15:2-4), clothes (Dan. 7:9; Rev. 1:13; 6:9-11), stones (Rev. 2:17), books (Rev. 3:5; 5:1-7; 10:1-11; 20:11-15), Also mentioned in Scripture are, vials or bowls, crowns, thunderings, lightnings, clouds, lamps, a sea of glass, singing, worship, palm trees, temples, silence, so there must also be noise at other times, trumpets, hail, mountains, keys and chains, measuring sticks, olive trees, the ark of the testament, doors, posts, girdles, pearls, diamonds and other precious stones, walls, gates, gold in abundance, streets, fruits, banquets, and many other inumerable things.

If the invisible things in the heavenlies are clearly seen by the things on Earth, as Paul taught in Rom. 1:20, then we have a right to believe that there are in Heaven the same kind of things that we have on Earth. We have no right to make an exception of any good thing that God created and intended for man to have before the fall.

 

Rev. 12:12, Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

[Pudgenik]

On 5/15/2013 at 10:06 AM, paulajeanne said:

Some say we will not go to heaven untill Jesus comes...."the dead will rise first"....

 

So many times in the Bible it says that We will reunite in Heaven when He comes. It's not clear to me ... Are the dead in Heaven?

 

I always believed my loved ones died and went right up to see our Lord and that there looking down on us...

 

Then one day I heard a preacher say that's not so.

We are in the grave untill Heaven is ready and the 2nd comming of Christ.....

 

Now I'm confused..

Help...

There are people in heaven and in hell

[JohnD]

Paul said, absent from the body = present with the Lord.

The Lord is in heaven sitting on his Father's throne.

Believers go to be with the Lord in heaven as

disembodied spirits

and are those who return with him

from heaven

for the great resurrection day

when the dead bodies in Christ rise first.