How do you debate a non-believer when the Bible says this:

[jerryR34]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you kind of boil it down to where your main point of contention lies in the above passage?   That is too long of a passage to address completely on this kind of forum.  Just present the verses that present the biggest problem and state why they are problem for you and we can go from there.

thanks - I guess I have a problem with the ceremonial aspects of what I posted.  Is God supposed to be happy that we killed a bird under water or sprinkled water a specific number of times.  If you look at medicine throughout history, you can see where the bible led people astray and actually made medcine worse (look at bleeding for instance).  Do you really think that what is practiced in the chapters and verses above actually helped anyone...or actually appeased God or should appease God?

 

 

If you are referring to the practice of bloodletting, where a doctor will let a patient bleed, that is not rooted in the bible at all. Nowhere is such a thing mentioned in the bible. The origins of that practice come from other cultures that followed false gods. It was practiced by ancient egyptians, ancient greeks and ancient hindus. 

 

...And practiced by Christians up until modern times. It was thought to release the bad humors from the blood.

 

 

It was pretty much practiced by everyone, not just Christians.  And as pointed out there was no biblical reason for

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you kind of boil it down to where your main point of contention lies in the above passage?   That is too long of a passage to address completely on this kind of forum.  Just present the verses that present the biggest problem and state why they are problem for you and we can go from there.

thanks - I guess I have a problem with the ceremonial aspects of what I posted.  Is God supposed to be happy that we killed a bird under water or sprinkled water a specific number of times.  If you look at medicine throughout history, you can see where the bible led people astray and actually made medcine worse (look at bleeding for instance).  Do you really think that what is practiced in the chapters and verses above actually helped anyone...or actually appeased God or should appease God?

 

 

If you are referring to the practice of bloodletting, where a doctor will let a patient bleed, that is not rooted in the bible at all. Nowhere is such a thing mentioned in the bible. The origins of that practice come from other cultures that followed false gods. It was practiced by ancient egyptians, ancient greeks and ancient hindus. 

 

...And practiced by Christians up until modern times. It was thought to release the bad humors from the blood.

 

 

It was pretty much practiced by everyone, not just Christians.  And as pointed out there was no biblical reason for

The bible was the reason for doing it.  Fortunately, there were some strong/brave enough to stand up against "Christian" medicine.  It takes some strong intelectual ignorance to read history and not come to that conclusion.

 

 

How can a practice that pre-dates Christ be the result of Christians?  Can you please provide the bible passages that instruct people in blood letting?  And finally, if the bible is the reason for doing it, why did the ancient Greeks practice it?

You are equivocating.  My original post was from the Old Testament.  Why did God not reveal germ-theory in the bible, or for that matter anything that the people of biblical times did not already know?

 

 

You are the one that was using the term Christan, if that is not what you meant, then don't use it.  So, can you please provide the bible passages that instruct people in blood letting?  And would you be a sweety and answer my last question,  if the bible is the reason for doing it, why did the ancient Greeks practice it

Again, you are being intellectually dishonest if you assert that blood letting wasn't practiced by christians for centuries.  Do you think that they practiced it in spite of the bible?  You don't have to read much medical history to get your answers.

[jerryR34]

Bloodletting is a treatment in the Talmud, but as others have stated bloodletting was standard practice all around the ancient world. I do not think it is fair to say the Bible or related texts are responsible for bloodletting. From what I understand the medieval and colonial usage of bloodletting is far more rooted in Greek philosophy than anything inherently Judeo-Christian. For example the four humors is a Greek concept, not Jewish or Christian. 

 

Why would God not admonish it in his book?  It usually did more harm than good.  I appreciate your citation.

[LookingForAnswers]

 

 

You are the one that was using the term Christan, if that is not what you meant, then don't use it.  So, can you please provide the bible passages that instruct people in blood letting?  And would you be a sweety and answer my last question,  if the bible is the reason for doing it, why did the ancient Greeks practice it

Again, you are being intellectually dishonest if you assert that blood letting wasn't practiced by christians for centuries.  Do you think that they practiced it in spite of the bible?  You don't have to read much medical history to get your answers.

 

 

You keep moving the target here, and while it is a fun game with a child, it does not really work well here.  Yes, blood letting was practiced by Christians for centuries, just as blood letting was practiced by PRETTY MUCH THE WHOLE STINKING WORLD for centuries.  Christians didn't do it because of the bible, they did it because it was the known practice of the time.

Now, you have made very specific claims, either back them up or take them back.  You claim that blood letting was done BECAUSE of the bible.  Show the passages or rescind this comment.

[Spock]

You are being extremely intellectually dishonest if you do not think that Christians used bloodletting as a balance to the humors for the last 1500 years.  If Christians did it, you can be assured it was based on their reading of the Bible.

Prove that assumption.   Just because christians practiced bloodletting doesn't mean they got it from the Bible.   That is a fallacious leap in logic.   Lot's of people, nonChristians practiced bloodletting.   Your claim has no basis in truth or reality.

You are getting of the topic I started.  The rituals cited from the bible are preposterous.  How do you justify them?

Hi jerry,

My two cents on this -

I can't explain some of the rituals as to their purpose. For example, why seven sprinklings and not five.

However, maybe these rituals are necessary to show obedience, which then brings about the blessing (healing in this case).

Of course, some of these "rituals" were also probably very hygienic and to ensure that the form of disease was not contagious. In addition ( this May interest you) even Jesus told the leper that he healed to present himself to the priest. The leper would be required to also go thru this ritual.

[ayin jade]

You are being extremely intellectually dishonest if you do not think that Christians used bloodletting as a balance to the humors for the last 1500 years.  If Christians did it, you can be assured it was based on their reading of the Bible.

 

 

 

Anyone who did it did so because of their science training. Not because of Christianity. It was common medical scientific practice. But if you can show me where in the bible it promotes such a practice, Im more than willing to discuss it. 

[Steve_S]

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